bwnco 0 #301 November 30, 2006 They were doing alot more then praying. Listen to the eyewitnesses report of the other people on the plane. Notes were not handed to stewerdess because they were praying, there was alot of strange behavior going on. They were muslim, so do you want to take the risk, considering whats going on in the world, Or wait till something happens. You dont go on an any airline in todays world, whether your are white, black, brown, jew, catholic or muslim and act suspiciously..... You get in, sit down, obey the rules and shut up and fly.............."Anything I've ever done that ultimately was worthwhile initially scared me to death." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #302 November 30, 2006 QuoteWhich says absolutely nothing about diversity, just that many people are coming in. Dekker's right. Individuals aren't diverse. It's not about diversity of thought or individualism, I want some really substantial "diversity" based on subjective cosmetic criteria that I can lump into nice predefined PC subgroups to target marketting and political messages to. With a ton of individuals, all you get is a whole bunch of different ideas and viewpoints and outlooks and attitudes. What good is that? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwnco 0 #303 November 30, 2006 DITTO !!!!!!!!! "Anything I've ever done that ultimately was worthwhile initially scared me to death." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #304 November 30, 2006 QuoteIf you are refuting what I'm saying, please tell me which country you believe to be more diverse. In the latest census in Canada, over 200 different etnhic groups were counted. Up to you to find the number for the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #305 November 30, 2006 QuoteIf you are refuting what I'm saying, please tell me which country you believe to be more diverse I tend to travel to Canada frequently.. and get into some fairly out of the way places there. To me.. it seems that on a per capita basis.. the Canadians are allowing in FAR more legal immigrants than we are...Between the Chinese of the Vancouver area.. to the eastern Europeans that seemd fairly common in places like YellowKnife NWT... BINGO...found something interesting.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada The highest per capita immigration rate in the world In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada. Based on the Canada 2001 Census total population of 30,007,094 people, immigration represented 0.834% population growth that year. On a compounded basis, that immigration rate represents 8.7% population growth over 10 years, or 23.1% over 25 years (or 6.9 million people). This excludes the future children of those immigrants born in Canada, who, while also contributing to population growth, would not be immigrants. Since the 2001, immigration has ranged between 221,352 and 262,236 immigrants per annum.[2] According to Canada's Immigration Program (October 2004) Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world.[3] The three main official reasons given for this are: A. The social component – Canada facilitates family reunification. B. The humanitarian component – Relating to refugees. C. The economic component – Attracting immigrants who will contribute economically and fill labour market needs. The level of immigration peaked in 1993 in the last year of the Progressive Conservative government and was maintained by Liberal Party of Canada. Ambitious targets of an annual 1% per capita immigration rate were hampered by financial constraints. The Liberals committed to raising actual immigration levels further in 2005. Other political parties have been cautious about criticising of the high level of immigration, because, as noted by the Globe and Mail, "in the early 1990s, the old Reform Party was branded 'racist' for suggesting that immigration levels be lowered from 250,000 to 150,000."[4] Immigrant population growth is disproportionally concentrated in or near large cities (particularly Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal). These cities are experiencing the strains that accompany strong population growth causing some residents to express concern about the declining livability of those cities. For example, a Toronto Star article published on 14 July 2006 authored by Daniel Stoffman noted that 43% of immigrants move to the Greater Toronto Area and said "unless Canada cuts immigrant numbers, our major cities will not be able to maintain their social and physical infrastructures".[5] Most of the provinces that do not have one of those destination cities have implemented strategies to try to boost their share of immigration. According to Citizenship and Immigration Canada, under the Canada-Quebec Accord, Quebec has sole responsibility for selecting most immigrants destined to the province. Quebec has been admitting about the same number of immigrants as the number choosing to immigrate to British Columbia even though its population is almost twice as large.[6] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #306 November 30, 2006 QuoteIndividuals aren't diverse. It's not about diversity of thought or individualism, I want some really substantial "diversity" based on subjective cosmetic criteria that I can lump into nice predefined PC subgroups to target marketting and political messages to. Which would make China the most diverse country in the world, since there are more individuals in China..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwnco 0 #307 November 30, 2006 No kidding I agree. If someone bashes a muslim cleric, a death wish is issued on whomever said it. But yet Muslims can bash Christians, Jews and anyone else they want and we are suppouse to be loving and tolerant...... Im with Scooby.....Fuck em, get over it!!!"Anything I've ever done that ultimately was worthwhile initially scared me to death." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #308 November 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf you are refuting what I'm saying, please tell me which country you believe to be more diverse. In the latest census in Canada, over 200 different etnhic groups were counted. Up to you to find the number for the US. ya, that's just sooper. do they round them all up in little pens and draft legislation to make sure each group is treated differently? sounds like a number game to me - I'm sure one could define 200 different ethnic groups in any single major US city. It's a nice exercise I guess to sit down and create ways to make people feel disconnected from each other so what? Are the people within and between those groups really that different for the things that matter? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #309 November 30, 2006 >If someone bashes a muslim cleric, a death wish is issued on > whomever said it. But yet Muslims can bash Christians, Jews and > anyone else they want and we are suppouse to be loving and > tolerant...... How about this (crazy, I know) - no one bashes ANYONE, no matter what religion they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #310 November 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteI've seen "goings on " on planes that were far more wierd than these. Like? like a woman who refused to stop her cell phone conversation after being told to turn it off. She wasn't ejected. Like drunks wandering around the cabin. A party in Halloween costumes. Like people making out, or (HORRORS) like breastfeeding. Quote Particularly, I'd like to hear about "goings on" that might cause passengers to fear for their safety, that went unaddressed by those in charge. I don't get the "fear for their safety" bit at all. WHy does asking for a seat belt extension represent a potential safety issue? Or asking for a different seat? I've seen that done dozens of times. Cell phone use in direct violation of the regulations is incredibly common** - how often are passengers ejected for that? **"We're not trying to be alarmist, but we are saying, 'Let's just go slow to be sure there is no danger,' " says Granger Morgan, a coauthor of the study and head of the Department of Engineering and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. He and a colleague are the first to have actually measured the level of radio waves on 37 flights. Their findings were surprising. On average, one to four passengers use a cellphone on each flight, despite regulations forbidding it. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #311 November 30, 2006 QuoteWhich would make China the most diverse country in the world, since there are more individuals in China..... I've traveled all over the world (and not some lame excuse of hitting 20 european countries all within a 400 mile radius), and find this is really true. So I'll say your statement is true for what really matters. and the icon is not really warranted then. Do you know what confidence intervals are? I view samples of people from different countries as groups of confidence intervals that overlap a TON, but have little tiny mean offsets. In other words, get to personally know 20 people from China and 20 people from the US and you'll find that though there are cosmetic differences between the two groups, you'll find that behaviors and priorities really align the same. The power of an individual to be diverse is much more powerful than any 'healthy' cultural group. Does that make you uncomfortable? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #312 November 30, 2006 Quoteya, that's just sooper. do they round them all up in little pens and draft legislation to make sure each group is treated differently? sounds like a number game to me - I'm sure one could define 200 different ethnic groups in any single major US city. It's a nice exercise I guess to sit down and create ways to make people feel disconnected from each other so what? Are the people within and between those groups really that different for the things that matter? In same cases they are very different, in other's they are not. But, that was not the argument. GM stated that the US was the most diverse country in the world, without backing it up in any way. I was wondering what he based that statement on. In stead of backing it up, he said that if I wanted to challenge it, I had to find different numbers. I found the numbers for Canada and asked GM again to back up his claim. I doubt I'll hear back. Your little rants in between are fun, but are completely beside the point. To me every ethnic group in Canada is Canadian first. But then, I am not in the habit of reffering to groups as wetbacks, towelheads or anything liek that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #313 November 30, 2006 Quote Or wait till something happens. You dont go on an any airline in todays world, whether your are white, black, brown, jew, catholic or muslim and act suspiciously..... You get in, sit down, obey the rules and shut up and fly.............. On average, one to four passengers uses a cell phone on each airline flight - contrary to regulations. So there goes that argument.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #314 November 30, 2006 QuoteDoes that make you uncomfortable? Your opinion doesn't make me uncomfortable know, you are entitled to one. GM might be uncomfortable though, cause your opinion would make him wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #315 November 30, 2006 Quote....... Your little rants in between are fun, but are completely beside the point. ....., I am not in the habit of reffering to groups as wetbacks, towelheads or anything liek that. they are fun, and beside the point. thanks but you did imply that all Chinese are the same - how's that different? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #316 November 30, 2006 Quotebut you did imply that all Chinese are the same - how's that different? I did? Where did I say that? I doubt there are over 200 identified ethnic groups in China though, but I could be wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #317 November 30, 2006 QuoteI doubt there are over 200 identified ethnic groups in China though, but I could be wrong. I'll take the bet on you being wrong. If Canada can come up with 50 different eskimo cultures, 50 different post-euro cultures, and 100 different urban and rural cultures, I bet China or the US or even New York City could go off and do the same. I bet Montreal could define 100 cultures all by their little self if it meant more government $upport..... It's been fun - see you tomorrow? Edit: I'll stop inferring things from casual glib statements like "Which would make China the most diverse country in the world, since there are more individuals in China..... ", my bad. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #318 November 30, 2006 QuoteThey were doing alot more then praying....etc... You're late to the discussion. This has already been argued & answered in 300 posts before yours. To repeat: neither you nor I know whether this is true. Reports of "the facts" are very much in conflict, and there's no videotape to resolve them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #319 November 30, 2006 QuoteIf Canada can come up with 50 different eskimo cultures, 50 different post-euro cultures, and 100 different urban and rural cultures, I bet China or the US or even New York City could go off and do the same. I bet Montreal could define 100 cultures all by their little self if it meant more government $upport..... This really had nothing to dow ith support. Was just a question on the last census which ethnic group people identified themselves with. I'll just wait for GM to come up with his number, so he can back up his earlier claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #320 November 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteJust because OBL hasn't been found doesn't mean he been given up on. Heck Eric Rudolph hid in the N.C. mountains for 6 years before he was found. Just comparing effort, man power and money spent between Iraq and Afghanistan. It is clear that the US has put Afghanistan on the back burner ever since the Iraqi invasion began. QuoteBecause it hasn't been abandoned. Iraq just gets more press. And Money, and man power and effort etc. QuoteSo you think people can just easily forget about 9/11 when boarding an airplane in the US? Do you think that whether or not the US has declined in it's persuit of OBL somehow gives comfort or a greater sense of ill-ease to those about to board a plane? By your reasoning, there should be a lessening of the threat of another terror attack if OBL was caught tomorrow. I don't think so. No, I think it isn't valid to constantly bring it up as an excuse, while it is clear that policy of the US government has gone in a completely different direction. They continue to put less effort, money and manpower into Afghanistan while their actions in Iraq have made the terrorist threat bigger. In stead of harping on 6 imams, maybe the US should put more effort into finding those responsible for 9/11, bring them to justice and at the same time conduct themselves in such a manner that they are not increasing the terrorsit threat. Comparing the resources to Afghanistan with those to Iraq is hardly evidence the US has become less concerned with finding OBL. If the police put 100 officers in a high crime area "A" in your city for 1 year and as a result the crime rate dropped by 90% and they then moved half of them to another area "B" to reduce crime there, would you claim they now care less about crime in area "A"? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #321 November 30, 2006 >Comparing the resources to Afghanistan with those to Iraq is hardly >evidence the US has become less concerned with finding OBL. I agree. However, closing down the CIA search unit dedicated to finding him does suggest we are now less concerned with finding him. Our president stating that he is not that concerned about him suggests we are less concerned with finding him. Pulling troops out of Afghanistan that were closing in on him (to support the Iraq invasion) suggests we are less concerned with finding him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #322 November 30, 2006 Quote>Comparing the resources to Afghanistan with those to Iraq is hardly >evidence the US has become less concerned with finding OBL. I agree. However, closing down the CIA search unit dedicated to finding him does suggest we are now less concerned with finding him. Our president stating that he is not that concerned about him suggests we are less concerned with finding him. Pulling troops out of Afghanistan that were closing in on him (to support the Iraq invasion) suggests we are less concerned with finding him. Hey, I know - maybe we're just acting like we're less concerned with finding him, so he gets complacent and pokes his nose out of his hole, and then WHAMMO!! we nail him. Pretty crafty of us, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #323 December 1, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf you are refuting what I'm saying, please tell me which country you believe to be more diverse. In the latest census in Canada, over 200 different etnhic groups were counted. Up to you to find the number for the US. Proves nothing. By your standard there could be 100 million residents and out of them 199 represent 199 ethnic groups. Almost 1/3 of the entire population in the US is foreign born. That doesn't include illegals or 2nd generation. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-551.pdf edited to add: Since I said diversity, let's include religion in there too. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/06s0069.xls . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #324 December 1, 2006 Quote>Comparing the resources to Afghanistan with those to Iraq is hardly >evidence the US has become less concerned with finding OBL. I agree. However, closing down the CIA search unit dedicated to finding him does suggest we are now less concerned with finding him. Our president stating that he is not that concerned about him suggests we are less concerned with finding him. Pulling troops out of Afghanistan that were closing in on him (to support the Iraq invasion) suggests we are less concerned with finding him. I'm not saying we are less concerned, I was just pointing out that the evidence Dekker gave wasn't in itself proof. Just curious if you have ever spent any time with anyone involved in CIA Intel. Has anyone ever explained to you how the CIA and others in govt. use propoganda, plant stories etc. If not, I hope you get the chance to some day. It might make you look at what Presidents, Generals, Politicians etc. say in a different light. It's not all shoot from the hip, the way you seem to view things. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #325 December 1, 2006 >I was just pointing out that the evidence Dekker gave wasn't in itself proof. Like I said - I agree. >Just curious if you have ever spent any time with anyone involved in CIA Intel. If you did - would you say so on a public board? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
