Squeak 17
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Squeak 17
The paints are most likely waterbased and wash off with water once they are done with it.QuoteQuoteTai's owner denied that the 38-year-old Indian elephant, who lives on a ranch, had been abused.
"Tai has done many, many movies," Kari Johnson said. "She's used to makeup."
They also describe it as a "non-toxic" paint. That would mean it's probably not petroleum based, & can be washed off with water.
And from the above quote, they've done this before, so I'm sure they've worked out how to paint the elephant without hurting her or using harmful chemicals. It can't be that difficult.
In India and Thailand, they often paint elephants for cerimonies and special occassions, I know for certain that the elephant handlers in Thailand cherish their animals, so although I dont think of it as art, I also dont see it as abuse.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
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micro 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe elephant did not have a say in the matter. Don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting by any means that this is blatant cruelty. I just feel that it may be inflicting unneccessary discomfort. I am fine with the fact that humans have the right to use animals for survival purposes (food, clothing ...etc) but should we not show some constraint when dealing with animals. It is possible that the elephant enjoys being covered in paint but I doubt it.
Richards
IMO, this is the post of reason in this thread! Well said.
Let's look at the raison d'etre of the elephant. It isn't to be a billboard now, is it. That would be my fundamental objection, the (mis)use of a living creature for a purpose other than what it was created for.
Have you guys ever been to a dog or cat (or another show), a Rodeo, Sea World. A park where people walk and play with dogs an equestrian event.
A farm?
VERY simplisitic attitudes I expect better from you Micro
Feel free to quit busting my ass with each post you reply to, m'k Mighty Mouse?
I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...
PLFXpert 0
QuoteHave you guys ever been to a dog or cat (or another show), a Rodeo, Sea World. A park where people walk and play with dogs an equestrian event.
A farm?
Not since I was little and learned to read.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
rehmwa 2
QuoteAlso how will they remove it...turpentine?
I was thinking of a rotary sander. Or, when they are done with him, just skin him and sell the ivory to recoup the cost of the "paint".
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
PLFXpert 0
QuoteI know for certain that the elephant handlers in Thailand cherish their animals
Well, since you know for certain all is well for me then.
Ever researched elephant handlers in Thailand? You know--other than going to see Dumbo paint a cool picture with his trunk and admiring the sweet display? Sure, the handlers at Barnum & Bailey also seem to love & cherish their animals when surrounded by visitors w/ pockets full of money to donate for a ride on the elephant.
Or, forget actually having to read---just watch Jeff Corwin or old episodes of the Crocodile Hunter on their adventures in Thailand and other parts of the world.
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
micro 0
QuoteQuoteHave you guys ever been to a dog or cat (or another show), a Rodeo, Sea World. A park where people walk and play with dogs an equestrian event.
A farm?
Not since I was little and learned to read.
I don't ever go to rodeos. IMO they are abusing the animals... bucking bulls and broncos are doing so b/c of the strap they sinch down so tight just forward of the hind legs.
As for Sea World, I was there as a kid and I'm sure my kids would love to go, but I wild animals in captivity bother me a bit. Although there is the educational aspect to it too, so I guess I'm on the fence here...
And before someone tries to point out an "apparent" hypocrisy w/ me getting livestock for my farm, IMO it's not the same to have domesticated animals for self-sustanance vs. keeping wild animals in captivity for research/education, etc.
I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...
PLFXpert 0
Quoteso I'm sure they've worked out how to paint the elephant without hurting her or using harmful chemicals.
While I don't disagree the paint was non-toxic and likely able to be rinsed with water---Yes, let's just assume those suspected of animal abuse would never use harmful chemicals.
While we're at it, let's assume anyone who works with animals for profit would never, ever harm them.
Yes, there. Now I can sleep at night.
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
Squeak 17
QuoteQuoteI know for certain that the elephant handlers in Thailand cherish their animals
Well, since you know for certain all is well for me then.
Ever researched elephant handlers in Thailand? You know--other than going to see Dumbo paint a cool picture with his trunk and admiring the sweet display? Sure, the handlers at Barnum & Bailey also seem to love & cherish their animals when surrounded by visitors w/ pockets full of money to donate for a ride on the elephant.
Or, forget actually having to read---just watch Jeff Corwin or old episodes of the Crocodile Hunter on their adventures in Thailand and other parts of the world.
Actually I base MY statement on spending time in Thailand and living for a short time in the hills with the elephant handlers, does that quell the factitious tones of yours
BTW Who the hell is Jeff Corwin
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
Andy9o8 0
Quotehorses are ideally suited for being ridden
Just for the fun of being pedantic, I suggest that elephants are ideally suited for being billboards.
PLFXpert 0
Quotedoes that quell the factitious tones of yours
Certainly not.
But I LOVE your use of "quell".
QuoteActually I base MY statement on spending time in Thailand and living for a short time in the hills with the elephant handlers,
I spent time on a wild cat rescue ranch once. Certainly (do I say that too much?
) in my time there I witnessed great care and love for the lions and tigers. I even helped with said care and lots of the love.Later I read a very disturbing article and consequently did follow-up research and discovered HORRIBLE goings-on that I had been completely oblivious to.
It provided a great lesson to me being that I was younger and more naive and less well-read on the subjects. I just knew I loved animals and wanted to help.
B/c you might not see with your eyes, doesn't mean it's not there to be seen. And I'm not even saying the specific handlers you happened to be hillying up with were bad. I don't believe all are this way.
But certainly (there it is again
) the majority are.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
kallend 1,683
fact is, in the greater scheme of human exploitation of animals for various reasons, painting an elephant does not seem very high on the list of abuses.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
PLFXpert 0
Quotefact is, in the greater scheme of human exploitation of animals for various reasons, painting an elephant does not seem very high on the list of abuses.
If you re-read my replys, I'm not disagreeing with you.
I did however point out a reason or two why I had an issue with it. Certainly my issue wasn't the paint.
<--Thesaurusing "certainly" as we speak.
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
mnealtx 0
QuoteIMO they are abusing the animals... bucking bulls and broncos are doing so b/c of the strap they sinch down so tight just forward of the hind legs.
While that is your opinion and you're fully justified to have it... those animals are in NO way abused. The flank strap is padded with sheepskin and is snug, not "so tight" and has a quick release mechanism to remove it immediately after the cowboy gets off the animal. Spurs are blunted and taped so as not to mark the animal - much more than you can say for the equipment an average weekend rider uses with their horses.
Those animals are treated better and taken better care of than most people take care of their dogs/cats.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
PLFXpert 0
I'm trying to refrain from providing links to PETA and HSUS, though both cite credible & legitimate references.
Wikipedia actually does a decent job in its article on rodeos though it's important to click on the various links it provides as well, particularly calf-ropping.
It even has links to various external sites including this one.
Wikipedia actually does a decent job in its article on rodeos though it's important to click on the various links it provides as well, particularly calf-ropping.
It even has links to various external sites including this one.
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
mnealtx 0
QuoteI'm trying to refrain from providing links to PETA and HSUS, though both cite credible & legitimate references.
Wikipedia actually does a decent job in its article on rodeos though it's important to click on the various links it provides as well, particularly calf-ropping.
It even has links to various external sites including this one.
I rode rodeo for a while, so I know what happens. I also don't make the mistake of anthropomorphizing the animals like the PETA / AHS like to do. For every link you provide showing some of alleged (or even true) cruelty, there's a stock contractor, rodeo arena or rider that can prove the opposite.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
micro 0
QuoteQuoteIMO they are abusing the animals... bucking bulls and broncos are doing so b/c of the strap they sinch down so tight just forward of the hind legs.
While that is your opinion and you're fully justified to have it... those animals are in NO way abused. The flank strap is padded with sheepskin and is snug, not "so tight" and has a quick release mechanism to remove it immediately after the cowboy gets off the animal. Spurs are blunted and taped so as not to mark the animal - much more than you can say for the equipment an average weekend rider uses with their horses.
Those animals are treated better and taken better care of than most people take care of their dogs/cats.
Perhaps I'm miseducated then... I wasn't aware of quick releases or sheep skin, but isn't the flank strap still tightened on the penis of the animal to make them buck? That's what I always thought... please correct me if I'm wrong.
I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...
PLFXpert 0
QuoteI rode rodeo for a while, so I know what happens.
I was an athlete in high school. And b/c I never saw any misuse of drugs & alcohol by my teammates I'm certain there was none of that going on, on my team or any other for that matter.
QuoteI also don't make the mistake of anthropomorphizing the animals like the PETA / AHS like to do.
I purposefully did not use any links to PETA, and yet you choose to argue your opinion on PETA anyways.
QuoteFor every link you provide showing some of alleged (or even true) cruelty, there's a stock contractor, rodeo arena or rider that can prove the opposite.
Prove the opposite for themselves, perhaps. And discernibly there are such persons in the industry who treat their animals humanely (I've never denied that). Clearly not all and assuredly not most.
Once again, let's blindly trust those who use animals for entertainment (and thus profit).
Thankfully I'm not blind and I don't chose to ignore the research, investigating and proven facts documented by numerous unbiased sources (PETA aside).Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
mnealtx 0
Quotebut isn't the flank strap still tightened on the penis of the animal to make them buck? That's what I always thought... please correct me if I'm wrong.
You stand corrected, Sir... actually, the usual myth is that they strap it across the testes... equally false, and the large majority of the male rodeo animals are gelded anyway.
One thing that I'm glad to see the various associations and arenas getting away from is "hot-shotting" the animals. They would do that to get them to buck harder...but it's honestly not needed.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
micro 0
QuoteQuotebut isn't the flank strap still tightened on the penis of the animal to make them buck? That's what I always thought... please correct me if I'm wrong.
You stand corrected, Sir... actually, the usual myth is that they strap it across the testes... equally false, and the large majority of the male rodeo animals are gelded anyway.
One thing that I'm glad to see the various associations and arenas getting away from is "hot-shotting" the animals. They would do that to get them to buck harder...but it's honestly not needed.
I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...
PLFXpert 0
QuoteOne thing that I'm glad to see the various associations and arenas getting away from is "hot-shotting" the animals.
While I'm glad to see progress too, "some getting away from hot-shotting " is just not good enough and definitely not regulated enough.
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
mnealtx 0
Quoteand definitely not regulated enough.
Not yet...but it's getting there.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
PLFXpert 0
QuoteNot yet...but it's getting there.
There has been a lot of positive change in the way of animal welfare. I like to think I had a part to play in some of those changes, as well.
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.
Andy9o8 0
Quotethe large majority of the male rodeo animals are gelded anyway.
[sarcasm]
Really? Good thing they don't cut their balls off. Now that would be abuse.
[/sarcasm]
Have you guys ever been to a dog or cat (or another show), a Rodeo, Sea World. A park where people walk and play with dogs an equestrian event.
A farm?
VERY simplisitic attitudes I expect better from you Micro
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
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