Good News for Motorcyclists

[AggieDave 6]

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>Or even worst, someone with 5 jumps telling their instructor what the
>instructor did wrong on the skydive.

In that case, I will not waste my time trying to discuss anything with an expert professional rider.

That's funny. Especially with your previous "expert" advice in this thread. Do you actually ride? Or were you a 3-year 3,000mi rider? Someone who doesn't ride is better then the 3 by 3 rider.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

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Do you think there are a lot of bikes that are louder than allowed by law? Is the noise law enforced?

Some bikes, sure.

Are noise ordinances inforced? Well, seeing how that's typically a municipal code violation (in Texas, atleast) their enforcement varies from city to city. I know the cities around here do their best to inforce that code.

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If bikers benefit from being loud, then autos will too. Everyone for the sake of safety should have really loud exhausts.

Strangely enough I've been in two accidents in my truck where the other driver "didn't see me." Which is funny, since I have a fairly large truck. I was physically ok for the most part in both accidents, except for a decent amount of whiplash in both. If I had been on my bike I would have most likely been killed in both accidents. There are distinct advantages to driving a cage, increased visability, increased safety from other drivers, etc. Loud pipes might keep someone from turning into you in your cage, but your life really wouldn't depend on someone knowing your in the lane beside them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[sundevil777 94]

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>Or even worst, someone with 5 jumps telling their instructor what the
>instructor did wrong on the skydive.

In that case, I will not waste my time trying to discuss anything with an expert professional rider.

That's funny. Especially with your previous "expert" advice in this thread. Do you actually ride? Or were you a 3-year 3,000mi rider? Someone who doesn't ride is better than the 3 by 3 rider.

Why isn't 1000 miles a year enough?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[AggieDave 6]

Its not 1000 in a year. Its the type of rider that buys a bike, rides 2k the first year, 1000 the next year and doesn't ride at all the 3rd year. Then sells the bike during the 3rd year. Its the discovery channel rider epidemic. On the upside you can find a 3yr old bike with all sorts of store bought extras on it with only 3,000mi on it reasonably cheap.

Those are the same riders that will talk on and on about their harley after they sold the bike. To someone who rides its kind of like finding a "skydiver" at a bar talking all sorts of shit about being a skydiver then finding out that person did a couple of tandems a few years back and that was it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[sundevil777 94]

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Its not 1000 in a year. Its the type of rider that buys a bike, rides 2k the first year, 1000 the next year and doesn't ride at all the 3rd year. Then sells the bike during the 3rd year. Its the discovery channel rider epidemic. On the upside you can find a 3yr old bike with all sorts of store bought extras on it with only 3,000mi on it reasonably cheap.

Those are the same riders that will talk on and on about their harley after they sold the bike. To someone who rides its kind of like finding a "skydiver" at a bar talking all sorts of shit about being a skydiver then finding out that person did a couple of tandems a few years back and that was it.

I think you're being a little harsh. I rode my street bike for only a few years and that was 20 years ago. I wouldn't consider myself to be a cycle 'wuffo'. If the 'rider' was really always on the back of the seat, then I think you're spot on.

I did have a lot of experience on dirt bikes. I think that learning skills on the dirt is extremely beneficial for street riders. Dirt riding allows you to learn how to control the bike when you have lost traction/sliding, bouncing over objects, etc.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[shropshire 0]

If you want to help save yourself on (actually off) a bike.. wear a helmet, gloves and armour and
treat every other clown on the road like they are about to kill you.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[AggieDave 6]

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I did have a lot of experience on dirt bikes. I think that learning skills on the dirt is extremely beneficial for street riders. Dirt riding allows you to learn how to control the bike when you have lost traction/sliding, bouncing over objects, etc.

I agree with you there! I grew up on a dirt bike, riding old Honda 200s, Yamaha 400 and on to some newer bikes. It came in REAL handy on a ride a couple of years ago. Riding up 287 near Mansfield (in TX) there had been some road damage that you really couldn't see until you're right on top of it. The damage wasn't a pothole but the asphault rode having been worn severly down and compressed at a junction for a bridge. When I saw it I did was every dirt bike rider does going over something like that, unweighted my seat, stood slightly on the pegs and took the bump. The bump actually jumped my cruiser a bit, causing it to become airborne for a moment. Kept up on my pegs for a bit, rolled slightly off my throttle to keep from running the engine/wheel up and landed. No big deal except for a slight rush.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Its not 1000 in a year. Its the type of rider that buys a bike, rides 2k the first year, 1000 the next year and doesn't ride at all the 3rd year. Then sells the bike during the 3rd year. Its the discovery channel rider epidemic. On the upside you can find a 3yr old bike with all sorts of store bought extras on it with only 3,000mi on it reasonably cheap.

Those are the same riders that will talk on and on about their harley after they sold the bike. To someone who rides its kind of like finding a "skydiver" at a bar talking all sorts of shit about being a skydiver then finding out that person did a couple of tandems a few years back and that was it.

I love the 3 year, 3000 mile pussies. They flood the market with low mileage bikes. I bought a 2003 Fatboy a while back with 1250 miles on it for $11,500 and resold it for $16,500. The guys wife wouldn't let him keep it and I think he put the mileage on it as a sign of his manhood before selling. The naggy bitch brow beat him into selling to me because she wanted that "g'damn thing out of the garage, NOW"!!

[Royd 0]

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Loud pipes save lives. I think that's self evident.

Loud pipes rank right up there with some idiot and his thumping stereo that rattles your windows from two blocks away.

Just lack of respect for others dealing with traffic.

Get a boat airhorn and use it when you need it. I rode with one for several years, and it will definately get someone's attention.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

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I will continue to ride within the confines of the law as well as keep my motorcycle equipment within the confines of the law. My opinion is one of someone who rides a lot. If you're not a rider, you can obviously have an opinion on the matter, but to be perfectly honest with you, your opinion doesn't really matter to me. You're a whuffo giving safety advice to a jumper. I'll nod politely and suggest that you go take a MSF riding safety course to get an introduction to motorcycles and motorcycle riding. If for no other reason then to help you educate yourself.

I wonder, do they teach, loud pipes save lives at the MSF course? They didn't at mine and I took mine in two different countries.

I'll take your opinion as coming from the rider who thinks riding is sitting on a fat cruiser going down a straight highway. I won't get into the miles ridden contest, it ranks up there with penis size contests.

[dorbie 0]

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>Or even worst, someone with 5 jumps telling their instructor what the
>instructor did wrong on the skydive.

In that case, I will not waste my time trying to discuss anything with an expert professional rider.

That's funny. Especially with your previous "expert" advice in this thread. Do you actually ride? Or were you a 3-year 3,000mi rider? Someone who doesn't ride is better then the 3 by 3 rider.

Why does he have to be an expert on bikes? If he has ears and even goes near a road he has a stake in your "safety" plan. His other "safety" points were intended to facetiously point out the issues with your solution.

As always, your safety on a bike comes from your attitude, being prepared, and making eye contact with drivers at junctions, if you don't register that eye contact you'd better be extra defensive. That might frustrate you when you're all badged up and people aren't respectin' your au-thoritah, but you're the guy who chose the low visibility mode of transport that's less likely to be spotted by motorists.

[AggieDave 6]

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I'll take your opinion as coming from the rider who thinks riding is sitting on a fat cruiser going down a straight highway.

Take my opinion as someone who wants to see people find the kind of riding they like and go with it. Be it racing, sport-street, cruisers, customs, whatever. Just do what you want to do within the confines of the law.

I've got a funny story about that I'll tell you someday when we meet in person about seeing a guy do a wheelie on a Harley Duece.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

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Why does he have to be an expert on bikes? If he has ears and even goes near a road he has a stake in your "safety" plan. His other "safety" points were intended to facetiously point out the issues with your solution

You're assuming that its the only thing I've got going for me. I've been riding for quite a while on and off road. There's a reason why I have a set of leathers sitting here next to me. If he's annoyed by loud pipes then I bet he notices them, doesn't he? His other "safety" points don't operate within the confines of the law and are not practical. Sure, that was his point, however, he's trying to make a point about something he has no or little basis of knowledge in. I don't argue about electronic design or solar power cells with Bill for that reason.

Eitherway, this thread has been good to me, I hadn't planned on eating lunch out yesterday since I was on the computer getting some work done (and of course screwing off on DZ.com), but this thread got me thinking and craving a burger from Yankee's. Since its only about a 30 mile ride out and back through some nice farmland with some forrestland it had to be done.

So thanks guys (and gals) you got me to go ride yesterday. It was very nice.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dorbie 0]

Your response makes no sense.

YOU implied he had no right to comment because of your speculation that he was a 3x3 now you're talking about what's going for you, it's not about you.

Just because you ride a bike and your victims don't doesn't mean that you're the only one qualified to comment on what you should be allowed to do with your bike.

I don't want to hear some jackasses loud pipes thanks, I don't care how safe it makes them feel. A bike used to be my sole transportation but that's totally besides the point when you intentionally set out to be a noise polluter to compensate for the other choices YOU have made.

Almost all of us have a basis of knowledge in noise pollution, and are perfectly able to comment on it. Whether or not we give a shit about your safety is a separate issue.

[AggieDave 6]

Hahaha! Don't get all riled up, this is a friendly discussion. No need to get upset.

You know whats great about this world? Choice. I choose to have loud pipes on my bike. I also decided to keep them legal. In my experience and others it helps with making the biker safer in traffic. Others disagree. I've had MSF instructors tell me both opinions. Riding with a reflective orange vest also helps, that's why the US Army requires their troops to wear that on a bike. Me? Nope, don't want to wear one, my choice. My analogies about riders/non-riders/wanna-be riders as referenced to skydiving still stands true. They're still my opinion. You won't change my opinion on the matter, just like I won't change your opinion on the matter. So what are we left with? The law. I know for a fact that my pipes are legal where I am, so all is well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkyDekker 1,145]

The orange vest has proven to make a motorcycle rider much more visible. Why do you chose to not wear one? Doesn't look cool? Might the same reasoning hold true for loud pipes, just the justification of it supposedly saving lives is being used?

[MattM 0]

Every weekend about 20 to 30 bikers come into our DZ bar, load up on beers, and then tear-ass out of there with their "life saving pipes". Really nothing more than an annoyance. I can't think of any situation where loud pipes could help a biker on thier mid-life crisis machine.

Matt

[AggieDave 6]

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Might the same reasoning hold true for loud pipes, just the justification of it supposedly saving lives is being used?

Not really. I could also wear a full leather racing suit and a full face helmet and gloves every time I ride. I choose not to. I could wear 3 parachutes while skydiving. I choose not to.

Keep going, you're not changing my opinion. I know I won't change yours, so we're just pissing in the wind here.

For the other poster with the thing about the bar. They come to your DZ bar, right? So you're making money off the bikers to keep the bar open for your DZ? I wouldn't worry too much about it, then. Except for the fact that they're the kind of riders that'll drink up like that then ride a motorcycle. That's just asinine in my book.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkyDekker 1,145]

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Not really. I could also wear a full leather racing suit and a full face helmet and gloves every time I ride. I choose not to.

Also all things not considered to be cool on a cruiser.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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The orange vest has proven to make a motorcycle rider much more visible. Why do you chose to not wear one? Doesn't look cool? Might the same reasoning hold true for loud pipes, just the justification of it supposedly saving lives is being used?

Loud pipes like AAD's have benefits. While I would agree with those who say they aren't as helpful when riding in rural areas, they are very beneficial when riding in urban areas because the sound bounces off buildings and precedes the rider. I can make a case that AAD's are not beneficial in all situations, but I doubt you and most skydivers would argue that they have no benefit and then discontinue their use. Many skydivers who use AAD's do so because they feel the benefits outweight the risks. Same is true with many motorcyclists who have loud pipes on their bikes. They feel they have no negatives as far as their own safety is concerned, but that they provide a benefit in some situations. If my loud pipes prevent one person from cutting me off and injuring me, then they have benefited me and IMO were well worth having.

BTW, you do jump with a Protec, right?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I can't think of any situation where loud pipes could help a biker on thier mid-life crisis machine.

Then you aren't thinking very hard and/or have not done much riding. Mid-life crisis machines? Funny thing to hear coming from a guy who jumps out of airplanes. You should hear what bikers think about you doing that.

[billvon 2,435]

> If my loud pipes prevent one person from cutting me off and
> injuring me, then they have benefited me and IMO were well worth
> having.

The same argument could be made for wiring my horn on and flashing my high beams constantly. (Actually using a circuit to do that, as some aircraft do with their landing lights.) To get around the legalities, I could design in a horn that's not really a horn; just a very very loud alternator fan/siren or something. That way more people would hear me coming, and motorcyclists might even notice me over their exhaust.

And if it saves one life, it's worth it for everyone to have.

[wmw999 2,149]

It's not always about cool. I ride a cruiser; I also wear a full face helmet and gloves. I'm iffy on boots, nearly always wear jeans, and have a mesh instead of leather jacket. For one thing, it's pretty hot here. For another, I'm lazy about changing my shoes at the DZ. And for a third, I haven't found mesh pants that fit.

But my pipes are nice and quiet, just the way I like them . I also wear ear plugs when I'm riding, just as I do in the airplane.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,145]

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Loud pipes like AAD's have benefits. While I would agree with those who say they aren't as helpful when riding in rural areas, they are very beneficial when riding in urban areas because the sound bounces off buildings and precedes the rider. I can make a case that AAD's are not beneficial in all situations, but I doubt you and most skydivers would argue that they have no benefit and then discontinue their use. Many skydivers who use AAD's do so because they feel the benefits outweight the risks. Same is true with many motorcyclists who have loud pipes on their bikes. They feel they have no negatives as far as their own safety is concerned, but that they provide a benefit in some situations. If my loud pipes prevent one person from cutting me off and injuring me, then they have benefited me and IMO were well worth having.

I agree with much of what you say.

The issue for me is, that most people put loud pipes on their bike, not for safety reasons, but for reasons more alligned with ego and "coolness factor" and then justify it with a somewhat possible safety argument.

Yet, items that are much more safety oriented are often not used, specifically in the cruiser riding segment. Full face helmets, full leathers, orange reflective vest and the like are not worn, cause they are not perceived to be "cool" eventhough they provide significantly more safety benefits then loud pipes ever will.

Hence, I think it is generally more acurate if people state they put loud pipes on their bikes to be cool and noticed (or maybe for increased performance, though that is not often a reason for cruiser riders) and not for the supposed added safety.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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> If my loud pipes prevent one person from cutting me off and
> injuring me, then they have benefited me and IMO were well worth
> having.

The same argument could be made for wiring my horn on and flashing my high beams constantly. (Actually using a circuit to do that, as some aircraft do with their landing lights.) To get around the legalities, I could design in a horn that's not really a horn; just a very very loud alternator fan/siren or something. That way more people would hear me coming, and motorcyclists might even notice me over their exhaust.

And if it saves one life, it's worth it for everyone to have.

Go ahead then. I doubt your fan/horn idea would be legal but it would be would be good for a laugh. Somehow the thought of you driving down the street with lights flashing and a loud fan/horn isn't too hard to imagine.

The difference is my loud pipes are legal and as long as they are legal, I'm going to use them.

Back to the original topic, I think it's a good thing that that people who cause accidents are going to be required to get remedial drivers training. I think everyone should be required to get it every 5 years or so. Notice how many people are clueless about which car has the right of way at an intersection with 4 stop signs?