The Cult of the Suicide Bomber

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I watched a movie called "The Cult of the Suicide Bomber" , which is a documentary on the origin of martyr, done by an ex-CIA spy.

Here is a story about it. http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200511/programs/ZY8104A001D14112005T203000.htm

What an amazing and educational movie. I learned that Muslims were using suicide bobers against each other before they ever were using it on innocent civilians. The suicide bomber originated in Iran during the Iran/Iraq war.

Anyone else see this?

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Darius11 12]

I didn’t watch it but will read your link


The original Suicide bomber or Suicide squid were developed to clear mine fields in massive attacks.
They weren’t considered suicidal individuals but Martyrs and heroes.
There was no other choice Iran was not only fighting Iraq it was fighting the whole world. Everyone including the United States was supporting Iraq even after they used Chemical weapons the killed thousands of Iranian civilians.

Iran was surprised attacked and lost some territory in the beginning of the war but was able to take it all back. Under the conditions Iran was facing the only thing it had was manpower and they used it in any way possible.

I think any proud citizen of any country would choose die or fight to the death when their country is being invaded.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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I think any proud citizen of any country would choose die or fight to the death when their country is being invaded.

Watching the movie it made sense why that martyrs were blowing themselves up during the miliraty operations. That tooks courage. (Thuogh I dont beleive a 13 year old can really make a rational decision like this)

But when this form of attack was used on civilians, the act turned into a coward one.

It was amazing for me to see how some families supported the martyr mission so mich, that mothers would sign release notes to let their son follow through with a mission. It's a very intersting approach family values vs patriotism. The documentary was very educational. On one side I can understand why people do it, on the other I still can't.

I guess as human beings have to do what we can survive.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Darius11 12]

I agree whenever Inocent lives are lost it is a bad thing.


As for the mothers allowing their sons to be martyrs it is a cultural thing. I guess the best comparison would be the Kamikaze pilots. I can only speak for Iran I know there is huge patriotism in Iran. I often joke with my dad. I call him the dad from my Big fat Greek wedding except he think every thing came from Iran first and not Greece LOL.


As for a 13 year-old I agree it is sad but in many parts of the Middle East the age where they consider a male a man and a female a woman varies with what we view as reasonable in the United States.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Skyrad 0]

Yes, I've seen it. It is a interesting documentary. As you said the first suicide bomber was a 13 year old boy who grabed some explosives and thew himself under an Iraqi tank to stop an enemy advance.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[outrager 6]

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But when this form of attack was used on civilians, the act turned into a coward one.

No matter what you think about the morals, justifications or the target, the act itself remains heroic - by the very definition of the word.

Cowardly is launching rockets or bombs from a safe distance.

Some examples of heroic:

U.S. soldiers on the ground in Afganistan.
9/11 pilots.

Some examples of cowardly:

U.S. pilots in Afganistan
Hesbollah rocket launcher operators

bsbd!

Yuri.

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comparison would be the Kamikaze pilots.

That is exactly what came to mind first

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[JohnRich 4]

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I think any proud citizen of any country would choose die or fight to the death when their country is being invaded.

Even if their country was being run by a tyrant who oppresses and murders his own people, and the invasion promised to set everyone free and make life better?

And you would be okay with American Indians attacking and killing you because you now occupy what was formerly their land?

[akarunway 1]

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I think any proud citizen of any country would choose die or fight to the death when their country is being invaded.

Even if their country was being run by a tyrant who oppresses and murders his own people, and the invasion promised to set everyone free and make life better?

And you would be okay with American Indians attacking and killing you because you now occupy what was formerly their land?

Had to respond to this one. Tyrant (GWB). And I'd gadly give the Native American Indians there land back as we slaughtered them and took it from them.. Texans> Steers and Queers

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[steveorino 7]

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Some examples of cowardly:

U.S. pilots in Afganistan

Yuri.

Really? Please explain.

steveOrino

[falxori 0]

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As for a 13 year-old

tell me something, would it be ok for the iraqis to shoot that 13 y/o kid?

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Skyrad 0]

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As for a 13 year-old

tell me something, would it be ok for the iraqis to shoot that 13 y/o kid?

I guess it would depend on if he was throwing stones at tanks or not

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[yjumpinoz 0]

Is being a martyr a cultural thing, a religious thing, or a fanatic thing? If Islam rewards this, why don't I see this locally from the mosque in my town?

[Darius11 12]

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As for a 13 year-old

tell me something, would it be ok for the iraqis to shoot that 13 y/o kid?

He was in a war zone as uniformed solder and was already being fired upon. The story goes that they could not stop the Iraq tank so he decides to grab a bunch of grenades and rush the tank. which he did.



As for you ur? if is it ok for the Iraqi tank to shot the 13-year-old boy? I know what you are trying to do and it is a good comparison acutely. The Iraqi tank was an invading force just like the Israeli tanks, and they were or are in Israel's case both where they do not belong. So no the right thing to do would have been for Iraqi tank to turn around and go home and not to invade someone’s land and shoot it’s citizens.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Being a martyr is a humane thing. We just call it different things.
Our troops who have died get Walls that have their names carved in them. Military families have lots of pride in their sons and daughters who put their lives on the line.
They might not go in to it thinking that they will be giving up there lives for there country but when the and if the time comes they will do so.
The big difference is in for example the Palestinians case they do not have any other weapons, they don’t have a military supplied by the United States so they have already goon threw all other military options. They are left with two options.

Be oppressed daily and not fight back
Be oppressed daily and fight back by any means necessary

Peace which would be a great option can’t be considered unless in includes Justice for both sides.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andy9o8 0]

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Suicide squid

[Darius11 12]

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Some examples of cowardly:

U.S. pilots in Afganistan

Yuri.

Really? Please explain.

In Afghanistan there isn’t much shooting back the danger is little in comparison to other war situations.
If your flying at thousands of feet above the grounds shooting a guy riding a Lama it is not really considered a courageous act is it?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Suicide squid

Ha???????

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[outrager 6]

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Some examples of cowardly:

U.S. pilots in Afganistan

Yuri.

Really? Please explain.

Killing defenseless people from a safe stand-off distance is cowardly. This is opposite of heroic, i.e. sacrificing your own life by flying a plane into the enemy.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[yjumpinoz 0]

So being a martyr is for your country and not for allah?

[DanG 1]

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If your flying at thousands of feet above the grounds shooting a guy riding a Lama it is not really considered a courageous act is it?

You assume that whatever is not "courageous" is therefore "cowardly". Doesn't follow. (BTW, there are no llamas in Afghanistan or Iraq. They use camels, and they hardly ever ride them.)

Combat pilots are not cowards, even though they may not be facing the same threats as ground troops. The ground troops don't consider them cowards, and are damn glad to have them on our side when needed. This coming from a former ground troop who has had his bacon saved by "cowardly" pilots flying at 10,000 ft.

Oh, and I also respect the courage of a suicide bomber who attacks a military target. They are not cowards either, even though we may not agree with their position. This also coming from someone who was nearly killed by a suicide bomber.

- Dan G

- Dan G

[steveorino 7]

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Some examples of cowardly:

U.S. pilots in Afganistan

Yuri.

Really? Please explain.

Killing defenseless people from a safe stand-off distance is cowardly. This is opposite of heroic, i.e. sacrificing your own life by flying a plane into the enemy.

bsbd!

Yuri.

I'd LOVE to see you call a Cobra pilot a coward to his face.

steveOrino

[Skyrad 0]

For what s worth I agree with you.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Darius11 12]

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So being a martyr is for your country and not for allah?

I know in Iran's case many did it for there home. I am sure when you are faced with the Iraqi solders who were known to rape and destroy every place they took over you will do it for the simple reason that your family could be next.

Also one thing to remember is leaders will say anything to rally the troops. We speak of national pride, Yellow ribbons, and in GW case what god asked him to do.
I the Middle East where there is not too much diversity it is easier to rally people by using their common belief in God.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Skyrad 0]

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So being a martyr is for your country and not for allah?

Can be, in the Iran Iraq war that was a nationalist thing, regardless of what the soldiers were told. In Afghanistan against the russians, I'm sure there were some who died for God and others for many other resons. Most likely the same with Hizbollah fighters who fought with the certainty of death, part National pride and part the desire to become a religious martyr. The japaneese Kamakazi pilots died notonly for Japan but for their Emperor who they belived to be a God. The IRA suicide hunger strikers died and became martrys for their cause, which while it contained religious aspects was esentially a death for nationalism.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca