Anyone still think that the war wasn't planned pre-9/11?

[idrankwhat 0]

The doors may be closing shortly on the nine-year-old Project for a New American Century, the neoconservative think tank headed by William Kristol , former chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle and now editor of the Weekly Standard, which is must reading for neocon cogitators and agitators.

The PNAC was short on staff -- having perhaps a half-dozen employees -- but very long on heavy hitters. The founders included Richard B. Cheney , Donald H. Rumsfeld , Paul D. Wolfowitz , Jeb Bush , I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby , William J. Bennett, Zalmay Khalilzad and Quayle.

The goal was to continue the Reaganite, muscular approach to projecting American power and "moral clarity" in a post-Cold War world, the group's manifesto said. The targets were liberal drift and conservative isolationism.

PNAC and its supporters dominated the Bush administration's foreign policy apparatus and championed a policy to get rid of Saddam Hussein long before Sept. 11, 2001.

In its famous 1998 letter to President Bill Clinton , PNAC said "removing Saddam Hussein and his regime . . . now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy." Clinton was urged to use all diplomatic, political and military means to topple him.

Despite the happy chatter before the Iraq invasion about cheering crowds and bouquets and cakewalks and how the war was going to pay for itself, the signatories wrote that "we are fully aware of the dangers of implementing this policy."

There had been debate about PNAC's future, but the feeling, a source said, was of "goal accomplished" and it looks to be heading toward closing. Former executive director Gary J. Schmitt , who had been executive director of President Ronald Reagan 's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, left recently for a post at the American Enterprise Institute. (Not a big move. Actually, only five floors up from PNAC.) Still, seems like a short century.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/11/AR2006061100739.html

[rushmc 18]

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The doors may be closing shortly on the nine-year-old Project for a New American Century, the neoconservative think tank headed by William Kristol , former chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle and now editor of the Weekly Standard, which is must reading for neocon cogitators and agitators.

The PNAC was short on staff -- having perhaps a half-dozen employees -- but very long on heavy hitters. The founders included Richard B. Cheney , Donald H. Rumsfeld , Paul D. Wolfowitz , Jeb Bush , I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby , William J. Bennett, Zalmay Khalilzad and Quayle.

The goal was to continue the Reaganite, muscular approach to projecting American power and "moral clarity" in a post-Cold War world, the group's manifesto said. The targets were liberal drift and conservative isolationism.

PNAC and its supporters dominated the Bush administration's foreign policy apparatus and championed a policy to get rid of Saddam Hussein long before Sept. 11, 2001.

In its famous 1998 letter to President Bill Clinton , PNAC said "removing Saddam Hussein and his regime . . . now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy." Clinton was urged to use all diplomatic, political and military means to topple him.

Despite the happy chatter before the Iraq invasion about cheering crowds and bouquets and cakewalks and how the war was going to pay for itself, the signatories wrote that "we are fully aware of the dangers of implementing this policy."

There had been debate about PNAC's future, but the feeling, a source said, was of "goal accomplished" and it looks to be heading toward closing. Former executive director Gary J. Schmitt , who had been executive director of President Ronald Reagan 's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, left recently for a post at the American Enterprise Institute. (Not a big move. Actually, only five floors up from PNAC.) Still, seems like a short century.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/11/AR2006061100739.html

And your point is?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

You’re a smart guy do you really need him to explain his point?

The war was planed before 9-11. Everything said and done to get the war on its way was an excuse.

Do you get the point now?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 18]

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You’re a smart guy do you really need him to explain his point?

The war was planed before 9-11. Everything said and done to get the war on its way was an excuse.

Do you get the point now?

I just wanted some one to spell out the point (but not in such a pissy way)

As far as the piece (the opinion piece) any your conclusions I am not surprised you think that way. After all, Bush is evil.

If you don't think that kind of planning goes on everyday by all different kinds of departments and groups in the US you are kidding yourself. And while the points made in the op ed may be compelling to you I am made to wonder what was left out.

Hey, is that a black helocopter.............

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[AggieDave 6]

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The war was planed before 9-11.

There's rooms full (well, probably computers full now) of plans for all sorts of wars, all sorts of people against other people. Full of what parts of the military go where, etc. Every little detail has already been planned.

The last two Iraq wars and the war in Afganistan was preplanned long before we went. So will be any war we get into in the future. Do you honestly think that the military sits around and waits for something to happen to react? That would mean it would take about a year for the military to mobilize to react.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

We *REALLY* need a 'rolling eyes' smiley....

So, by your proofs, I guess Clinton really *WAS* trying to change to country to Communism, based on the proof of the Chinese campaign contributions, his sale of missile tech to China, etc....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

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And your point is?

Just pointing out (again) that this was a premeditated war that was started under false pretenses and that most of America was played like a chump. So maybe next time people will pay attention and possibly ask some questions or do some reasearch before blindly following a misleadership simply because they have a particular letter behind their name.

[mnealtx 0]

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And your point is?

Just pointing out (again) that this was a premeditated war that was started under false pretenses and that most of America was played like a chump. So maybe next time people will pay attention and possibly ask some questions or do some reasearch before blindly following a misleadership simply because they have a particular letter behind their name.

Somalia
Bosnia
Kosovo

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,426]

>Somalia
>Bosnia
>Kosovo

Somalia was definitely a mistake. Bad leadership comes from both sides of the aisle.

[idrankwhat 0]

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The war was planed before 9-11.

There's rooms full (well, probably computers full now) of plans for all sorts of wars, all sorts of people against other people. Full of what parts of the military go where, etc. Every little detail has already been planned.

The last two Iraq wars and the war in Afganistan was preplanned long before we went. So will be any war we get into in the future. Do you honestly think that the military sits around and waits for something to happen to react? That would mean it would take about a year for the military to mobilize to react.

That's not the kind of planning that I was talking about. The deliberate, military strategic plans that you are referring to were actually thrown out by Rummy and his civilian advisors. The plans that I'm referring to are the ones posted on the PNAC website. They pretty much spell out a military and economic imperialist view of transforming the rest of the globe. Iraq was a big first step. They wanted Saddam out by any means, they got into office, then they used 9/11 to justify the war and cherry picked their information to those ends.

[lawrocket 3]

There isn't a country or theater of operations that does not have a war plan. If the situation develops where there is a situation with The Netherlands, there is a war plan occupying a few binders at some library in the Pentagon.

There are probably headings like,

"The Netherlands - NonCombatant Evacuation Operations - "
"The Netherlands - Preventive Deployment"
"The Netherland - Peace Enforcement"
"The Netherlands - Peacekeeping Operations"

THey've got basic plans set up for all of this, everything, everywhere. These plans would consist of a highly detailed warning order.

Planned? Um, yeah. These things don't just come together. It's how we got so quickly over to Panama.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[narcimund 0]

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Planned? Um, yeah. These things don't just come together.

There's a big difference between:

A) Creating a war plan
B) Planning to create a war.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[idrankwhat 0]

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There isn't a country or theater of operations that does not have a war plan. If the situation develops where there is a situation with The Netherlands, there is a war plan occupying a few binders at some library in the Pentagon.

There are probably headings like,

"The Netherlands - NonCombatant Evacuation Operations - "
"The Netherlands - Preventive Deployment"
"The Netherland - Peace Enforcement"
"The Netherlands - Peacekeeping Operations"

THey've got basic plans set up for all of this, everything, everywhere. These plans would consist of a highly detailed warning order.

Planned? Um, yeah. These things don't just come together. It's how we got so quickly over to Panama.

Again, I'm not talking about that sort of military contingency planning. I'm talking about plans made by civilian political think tanks.

[Gawain 0]

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You’re a smart guy do you really need him to explain his point?

The war was planed before 9-11. Everything said and done to get the war on its way was an excuse.

Do you get the point now?

The ideas about what types of military action could be expected in the region were certainly planned. But given the fact that in 1990 the US had 22 divisions in the Army, and now only has 10, those plans definitely changed.

A think tank advocating policy is not the same as generals planning an invasion. The vice President and others that are a part of the "think tank" were advocating policies back in the seventies, predicting (correctly I might add) how the decay of society in the middle east would profoundly affect the geo-political stage.

People have known (whether they choose to accept it or not) that the middle east has been a shit-storm in the brewing for at least 30 years. It was bound to happen, and at some point, more people are going to get involved.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Darius11 12]

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In its famous 1998 letter to President Bill Clinton , PNAC said "removing Saddam Hussein and his regime . . . now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy."

I understand that every army has to practice situations that might happen. For Example nuclear war was practiced and still is done with may different scenarios.

The big difference here is that this was not a practice but expressing a desire to invade Iraq with any excuse possible.
When it comes down to it if this information is correct, then the American people were lied to and played. It means they had planed to Invade Iraq for reasons other then WMD, or democracy.

Now I know most of us with a fully functional brain knew before the war even started that it was not about WMD, but many believed what they saw on TV and were manipulated.

Practicing for war not a big issue, Lying to your own citizens, and manipulating the world so you can get you goal accomplished is sleazy and dishonest at best.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 18]

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In its famous 1998 letter to President Bill Clinton , PNAC said "removing Saddam Hussein and his regime . . . now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy."

What is the reason given for this? If the people were lied to, what was reason?

If the letter was sent to Clinton back then how is Bush "implicated" in some scheem today? (other that he took the advise?)

Understand please that this is a serious question.

I am really looking to understant your reasoning here.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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[shropshire 0]

<> - I believe that you're right.. but in the main, it was easy for some people to predict that a problem was brewing in the region, because they helped to create it... the devestating sanctions imposed on Iraq (for one and military suport for Israel) created a level of poverty that was unsustainable.... We have to shoulder the blame for that.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rushmc 18]

And by the way, I beleive that the following two sentences taken from your post are BS. Unless of course you have evidence or you are a mind reader

>Now I know most of us with a fully functional brain knew before the war even started that it was not about WMD, but many believed what they saw on TV and were manipulated.

Practicing for war not a big issue, Lying to your own citizens, and manipulating the world so you can get you goal accomplished is sleazy and dishonest at best.<

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

The ideas about what types of military action could be expected in the region were certainly planned. But given the fact that in 1990 the US had 22 divisions in the Army, and now only has 10, those plans definitely changed.

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Aint that a Bitch Max?

Gee I wonder who gutted our Military???

Must have been GWB I mean he is guilty of everything else

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[hairyjuan 0]

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The ideas about what types of military action could be expected in the region were certainly planned. But given the fact that in 1990 the US had 22 divisions in the Army, and now only has 10, those plans definitely changed.

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Aint that a Bitch Max?

Gee I wonder who gutted our Military???

Must have been GWB I mean he is guilty of everything else

has anybody ever heard of the British Isreal, World Union, international? they planned 911 before many of you were born. read about it at Jordanmaxwell.com. VERY INTERESTING AND MORE TRUTH than you can probably stand. the documents presented are sraight from the congressional record, 76th congress

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

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[Hawkins121 0]

The pentagon has an invasion plan for every country....

Including our allies... Except for maybe england, canada and australia...

[idrankwhat 0]

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If the letter was sent to Clinton back then how is Bush "implicated" in some scheem today? (other that he took the advise?)

Understand please that this is a serious question.

I am really looking to understant your reasoning here.

(sigh) You've never read any of my other links that I've provided apparently. If you go to the PNAC website and read their letters, statements and publications then you'll have a very good idea as to where our current foreign policy comes from. The letter to Clinton was the first. Read the names of the signatories on the site. They should look familiar. I highlighted a few key members.

Elliott Abrams, Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Eliot A. Cohen, Midge Decter, Paula Dobriansky, Steve Forbes, Aaron Friedberg, Francis Fukuyama, Frank Gaffney, Fred C. Ikle, Donald Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Dan Quayle, Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen, Donald Rumsfeld, Vin Weber, George Weigel, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Peter W. Rodman, William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey, Robert B. Zoellick

[idrankwhat 0]

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Practicing for war not a big issue, Lying to your own citizens, and manipulating the world so you can get you goal accomplished is sleazy and dishonest at best.

BINGO!!!!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!! DINGDINGDINGDING!!!!!!

[rushmc 18]

OK ,you are right, I have not read all of that so, simple question, Why?

For what purpose would the US want to do that?

And for your info, I do not buy the "New World Order" crap.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[LRC 0]

I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories, but this does make me wonder. ???

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=9%2F11