billvon 2,476 #1 April 27, 2006 Well, may not be the dumbest plan ever (the Alaskan bridge to nowhere or the Iraq war might take that title) but this one definitely makes the top 10. A proposed amendment to an emergency spending bill will give a $100 rebate to every american taxpayer, ostentibly to 'offset the pain' of higher gas prices. This is the US Congress, which was once the most powerful branch of government in the US. They have the power to set new CAFE limits, remove fuel taxes, close oil-company tax loopholes, stop the SUV incentives, give greater tax breaks for fuel efficient and alternative fuel vehicles, push mass transit, set mass transit fares, and fund new mass transit projects. And their answer to high fuel prices? Send everyone a check. Which, if used as anticipated, will INCREASE fuel prices. I am reminded of the Tocqueville quote - "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/27/gas.rebate/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 April 27, 2006 Hey everyone collectively voted them into office. What do you expect from a popularity contest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 April 27, 2006 No, this is pretty dumb. Take money from many of us, and then turn it around and give it back to everyone. Wait, isn't that what government does? This is obviously an appeal to the 'stupid people' to get their support in order to accomplish the rest of the bill outlined below (many of which BV listed). But the $100 thing is completely arrogant and insulting to those that think and to those pay that money in. As outlined from the article - so those that don't click don't just takes BV's implication that the entire bill is just about rebate checks....: -give taxpayers a $100 rebate, -repeal tax incentives for oil companies -allow the Federal Trade Commission to prosecute retailers unlawfully inflating the price of gasoline. -issue fuel efficiency standards for passenger vehicles -expand tax incentives for the use of hybrid vehicles -push for more research into alternative fuels -expansion of existing oil refineries. I like the last two. I like repealing incentives for gas companies - let them compete in an open market - get the government out of helping or hindering their business. Allowing a department to prosecute unlawful activity is a pure PR gesture, we can always prosecute unlawful behavior. It's equivalent to the $100 gesture. Standards and incentives seems redundant with the market effect that high prices will drive anyway but are a nice gesture if futile. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #4 April 27, 2006 ***... A proposed amendment to an emergency spending bill will give a $100 rebate to every american taxpayer, ostentibly to 'offset the pain' of higher gas prices. This is the US Congress, which was once the most powerful branch of government in the US. They have the power to set new CAFE limits, remove fuel taxes, close oil-company tax loopholes, stop the SUV incentives, give greater tax breaks for fuel efficient and alternative fuel vehicles, push mass transit, set mass transit fares, and fund new mass transit projects. And their answer to high fuel prices? Send everyone a check. Which, if used as anticipated, will INCREASE fuel prices. I am reminded of the Tocqueville quote - "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/27/gas.rebate/index.html i'll refrain from full comment, but, considering i voiced my opinion in another similar thread about how useless legislation would be in the first place, i'm not surprised this is the 'fix' congress has suggested. gravitymaster, paging gravitymaster...your advice to contact your reprsentative has paid off, we're all saved!! /wonder if he'll ride that pink vespa with me now. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #5 April 27, 2006 I agree with everything you said except this: Quote-allow the Federal Trade Commission to prosecute retailers unlawfully inflating the price of gasoline. This is anti-Capitalist. Why should the govt. be involved in forcing privately owned companies to adhere to a random price determined by the govt. Isn't the entire point of Capitalism to allow the market to set the price? If an independently owned gas station owner decides to charge $4.50 per gallon while his competitors are only charging $3.25 then he won't get many customers to pay that much. The only scenario I think govt. price fixing is appropriate is under unusual circumstances like we saw after Katrina. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #6 April 27, 2006 Quote***... A proposed amendment to an emergency spending bill will give a $100 rebate to every american taxpayer, ostentibly to 'offset the pain' of higher gas prices. This is the US Congress, which was once the most powerful branch of government in the US. They have the power to set new CAFE limits, remove fuel taxes, close oil-company tax loopholes, stop the SUV incentives, give greater tax breaks for fuel efficient and alternative fuel vehicles, push mass transit, set mass transit fares, and fund new mass transit projects. And their answer to high fuel prices? Send everyone a check. Which, if used as anticipated, will INCREASE fuel prices. I am reminded of the Tocqueville quote - "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/27/gas.rebate/index.html i'll refrain from full comment, but, considering i voiced my opinion in another similar thread about how useless legislation would be in the first place, i'm not surprised this is the 'fix' congress has suggested. gravitymaster, paging gravitymaster...your advice to contact your reprsentative has paid off, we're all saved!! /wonder if he'll ride that pink vespa with me now. Not at all what I suggested. I told you if you wanted immediate relief that you should contact your Senators, Congressmen and Governors and demand they eliminate the tax on gasoline. This would amount to a drop of about $.50 per gallon. While you are at it, tell them to eliminate tax incentive to oil companies too. I'll reject your invitation to ride the pink Vespa in favor of my black Harley. Perhaps a little white basket on the front would make a strong statement of protest. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #7 April 27, 2006 Quote Why should the govt. be involved in forcing privately owned companies to adhere to a random price determined by the govt. The government's business is the security of the country. Security in all forms, including but not limited to; military, health, education, economic. It IS the government's business to see that our entire transportation infrastructure and a lot of our economy does not come to a grinding halt because of some greedy bastards. Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. I'm kinda surprized you're not. Don't you care anything about the American people or are your interests only for the rich bastards? (Yes, that last part was in jest.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #8 April 27, 2006 >This is anti-Capitalist. Well, the key there is the definition of "unlawfully inflating." If they mean "gas stations that charge a lot for gas should be prosecuted" then I agree that the government has no business regulating that. If they mean "gas stations/suppliers that cooperate to raise gas prices" then the government has a role in stopping that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #9 April 27, 2006 I see your point, but it still needs to be looked at. On the way to SF from LA there are very few gas stations and if one decides to charge $10 a gallon there is nothing I can do but suck it up and pay since that might be the only gas stations around for 50+ miles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #10 April 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Why should the govt. be involved in forcing privately owned companies to adhere to a random price determined by the govt. Quote The government's business is the security of the country. Security in all forms, including but not limited to; military, health, education, economic. Quade, I know you don't really want to go down this path. Once you start lumping gas prices with security, it opens up the doors for all kinds of govt. price fixing in the name of security. QuoteIt IS the government's business to see that our entire transportation infrastructure and a lot of our economy does not come to a grinding halt because of some greedy bastards. Apparently you do want to go down this path. How does some gas station owner in Iowa who tries to take advantage of temporary gas shortages threaten national security? OTOH I would agree there needs to be enforcement of any anti-trust violations or conspiracy to fix prices. QuoteYes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. So am I, but where do you draw the line? QuoteI'm kinda surprized you're not. Don't you care anything about the American people or are your interests only for the rich bastards? (Yes, that last part was in jest.) Considering more wealthy people drive more means they pay more gas taxes. I know you are in favor of that? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #11 April 27, 2006 Quote>This is anti-Capitalist. Well, the key there is the definition of "unlawfully inflating." If they mean "gas stations that charge a lot for gas should be prosecuted" then I agree that the government has no business regulating that. If they mean "gas stations/suppliers that cooperate to raise gas prices" then the government has a role in stopping that. I agree. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stoneycase 0 #12 April 27, 2006 QuoteNot at all what I suggested. I told you if you wanted immediate relief that you should contact your Senators, Congressmen and Governors and demand they eliminate the tax on gasoline. i tried that (not really) this is the 'comprimise' we arrived at...lol... QuoteThis would amount to a drop of about $.50 per gallon. .50/gallon decrease means i'd pay about $2.80-$2.90/gall right now for 87(wonder what the .50 would mean, say, 6mo from now). cheap at twice the price! QuoteWhile you are at it, tell them to eliminate tax incentive to oil companies too. sounds like a good plan to me...chances of it happening, imo, are slim to none, and slim just got up and left on a pink vespa Quote I'll reject your invitation to ride the pink Vespa in favor of my black Harley. Perhaps a little white basket on the front would make a strong statement of protest. well played!! curiousity question - what kinda mpg do Harley's get? i don't own a motorcycle, and the only one's i've ever ridden have been honda/kawasaki - not exactly the Harley type.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheAnvil 0 #13 April 27, 2006 Concur. Dumb idea. Didn't a similar one float during the Carter administration about giving everyone a $50 refund or something like that? Or was it during Ford's? Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #14 April 27, 2006 Harley suck if you are looking for good gas mileage. I have a Fat Boy with a 1450 cc V-twin and only get about 37 mpg average. My GF has a Kawasaki Vulcan 500 cc and it gets around 65 mpg. I think we are already starting to see another surge in motorcycle sales like we did a few years back. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,412 #15 April 27, 2006 QuoteI see your point, but it still needs to be looked at. On the way to SF from LA there are very few gas stations and if one decides to charge $10 a gallon there is nothing I can do but suck it up and pay since that might be the only gas stations around for 50+ miles. Years ago I was making the drive from LA to SF and got screwed by one of those bastards. The a**hole had posted prices that looked fine until you figured out, (after you had pumped some gas), that the price was per liter. Unfortunately, I was 2000 miles from home and didn't have time to stick around and file a complaint on the crook."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,476 #16 April 27, 2006 >The government's business is the security of the country. Security in > all forms, including but not limited to; military, health, education, > economic. Does the government have a role in ensuring the economic health of the oil companies, then? What about Enron, or Halliburton? Should they take action to ensure the continued profitability/existence of those companies? >Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are >vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. Would you really want government regulation of the Internet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #17 April 27, 2006 I think Bill Frist and his cohorts. really do BELIEVE that Bribing the American people should be as easy as the Lobbyists bribing him and his cohorts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #18 April 27, 2006 It IS the government's business to see that our entire transportation infrastructure and a lot of our economy does not come to a grinding halt because of some greedy bastards. Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. "Big Oil" is currently making .09c per dollar of sales. Mircrsoft is making .33c per dollar of sales. Why is Big Oil evil here?? Oh, and we are not (suppoed to be) a socialist country. The kind of regulation you want does not work here and never has.........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #11 April 27, 2006 Quote>This is anti-Capitalist. Well, the key there is the definition of "unlawfully inflating." If they mean "gas stations that charge a lot for gas should be prosecuted" then I agree that the government has no business regulating that. If they mean "gas stations/suppliers that cooperate to raise gas prices" then the government has a role in stopping that. I agree. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #12 April 27, 2006 QuoteNot at all what I suggested. I told you if you wanted immediate relief that you should contact your Senators, Congressmen and Governors and demand they eliminate the tax on gasoline. i tried that (not really) this is the 'comprimise' we arrived at...lol... QuoteThis would amount to a drop of about $.50 per gallon. .50/gallon decrease means i'd pay about $2.80-$2.90/gall right now for 87(wonder what the .50 would mean, say, 6mo from now). cheap at twice the price! QuoteWhile you are at it, tell them to eliminate tax incentive to oil companies too. sounds like a good plan to me...chances of it happening, imo, are slim to none, and slim just got up and left on a pink vespa Quote I'll reject your invitation to ride the pink Vespa in favor of my black Harley. Perhaps a little white basket on the front would make a strong statement of protest. well played!! curiousity question - what kinda mpg do Harley's get? i don't own a motorcycle, and the only one's i've ever ridden have been honda/kawasaki - not exactly the Harley type.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #13 April 27, 2006 Concur. Dumb idea. Didn't a similar one float during the Carter administration about giving everyone a $50 refund or something like that? Or was it during Ford's? Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #14 April 27, 2006 Harley suck if you are looking for good gas mileage. I have a Fat Boy with a 1450 cc V-twin and only get about 37 mpg average. My GF has a Kawasaki Vulcan 500 cc and it gets around 65 mpg. I think we are already starting to see another surge in motorcycle sales like we did a few years back. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,412 #15 April 27, 2006 QuoteI see your point, but it still needs to be looked at. On the way to SF from LA there are very few gas stations and if one decides to charge $10 a gallon there is nothing I can do but suck it up and pay since that might be the only gas stations around for 50+ miles. Years ago I was making the drive from LA to SF and got screwed by one of those bastards. The a**hole had posted prices that looked fine until you figured out, (after you had pumped some gas), that the price was per liter. Unfortunately, I was 2000 miles from home and didn't have time to stick around and file a complaint on the crook."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #16 April 27, 2006 >The government's business is the security of the country. Security in > all forms, including but not limited to; military, health, education, > economic. Does the government have a role in ensuring the economic health of the oil companies, then? What about Enron, or Halliburton? Should they take action to ensure the continued profitability/existence of those companies? >Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are >vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. Would you really want government regulation of the Internet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #17 April 27, 2006 I think Bill Frist and his cohorts. really do BELIEVE that Bribing the American people should be as easy as the Lobbyists bribing him and his cohorts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #18 April 27, 2006 It IS the government's business to see that our entire transportation infrastructure and a lot of our economy does not come to a grinding halt because of some greedy bastards. Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. "Big Oil" is currently making .09c per dollar of sales. Mircrsoft is making .33c per dollar of sales. Why is Big Oil evil here?? Oh, and we are not (suppoed to be) a socialist country. The kind of regulation you want does not work here and never has.........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #19 April 27, 2006 Quote>This is anti-Capitalist. Well, the key there is the definition of "unlawfully inflating." If they mean "gas stations that charge a lot for gas should be prosecuted" then I agree that the government has no business regulating that. If they mean "gas stations/suppliers that cooperate to raise gas prices" then the government has a role in stopping that. I await the evidence of "unlawful" inflating of prices. Wait! You have none but it is the emotion and the seriousness of the charge. Sorry, now I remember"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #20 April 27, 2006 >Wait! You have none but it is the emotion and the seriousness of >the charge. Sorry, now I remember . . . I swear, if I said the sky was blue, you'd reply "Oh, sorry, you conveniently ignored the FACT that it's BLACK in over half the world - but liberals can't be bothered with FACTS." Dude, I suspect you agree with me on this. Come on, admit it - sometimes you agree with things I say. Doesn't mean you have to be a liberal too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #21 April 27, 2006 QuoteDoes the government have a role in ensuring the economic health of the oil companies, then? What about Enron, or Halliburton? Should they take action to ensure the continued profitability/existence of those companies? To a certain extent, yes. However, that would also need to be balanced with regulation to provide for the common welfare of the citizenry. Right now it's a little too much in favor of the oil companies and not enough for the common man. Quote>Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are >vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. Would you really want government regulation of the Internet? To a certain extent, yes. Our economy is now tied pretty heavily to the internet. I'm not talking about simple .com sales business but in it's entirety; as an infrastructure. Content no. Infrastructure, absolutely. Right now (as far as I can tell) it really wouldn't take all that much to cripple huge portions of the U.S. economy by taking over or taking out certain companies. So, yes, I would definately want a certain amount of regulation of the internet to ensure its continued existance.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #22 April 27, 2006 QuoteBill Frist and his cohorts. "The energy package, sponsored by Sens. Charles Grassley of Iowa, Ted Stevens of Alaska, Pete Domenici of New Mexico and Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania" "cohorts"? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #23 April 27, 2006 Quote>Wait! You have none but it is the emotion and the seriousness of >the charge. Sorry, now I remember . . . I swear, if I said the sky was blue, you'd reply "Oh, sorry, you conveniently ignored the FACT that it's BLACK in over half the world - but liberals can't be bothered with FACTS." Dude, I suspect you agree with me on this. Come on, admit it - sometimes you agree with things I say. Doesn't mean you have to be a liberal too. Yes, I do agree with some of the things you say. But sure as hell not here! Dam admitting that hurt.........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #24 April 27, 2006 Quote It IS the government's business to see that our entire transportation infrastructure and a lot of our economy does not come to a grinding halt because of some greedy bastards. Yes, I'm ALL for government regulation of certain items that are vitally important to every citizen of the U.S. "Big Oil" is currently making .09c per dollar of sales. Mircrsoft is making .33c per dollar of sales. Why is Big Oil evil here?? Oh, and we are not (suppoed to be) a socialist country. The kind of regulation you want does not work here and never has.......... Who said they were "evil"? Why do you suppose that the U.S. has an oil reserve? Does it have anything to do with money or is it supposed to be there for the security of the country? I could swear it's supposed to be there for security purposes. This is my point . . . energy IS a security issue. Look at Japan in the late 1930s and ask yourself why they began a war. This Administration has done nothing but make us less and less secure in this regard while simultaneously making a lot of its supporters very, very rich. It's not simply about being "evil" as you seem to think it is. It's about malfeasance.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #25 April 27, 2006 >But sure as hell not here! What don't you agree with me about? I'd be suprised if we disagreed on this particular issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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What don't you agree with me about? I'd be suprised if we disagreed on this particular issue.
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