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skygeek

How Bad is depleted uranium?

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contrary as to what was said earlier there is such thing as non radio active uranium, it is just that any sample of uranium is likely to contain both radio active and non radioactive isotopes, with the majority being non-radioactive.



Please list a stable isotope of U. Note that a very long half-life is not the same as stable.



You're in for a long wait.



HA! :D

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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by non-radioactive i meant non-fissile i appologize, the fissle material is the one that emits particles at a rate high enough to cause damage from prolonged exposure

U-238's half life is long enough that the radiation emitted is rarely enough to cause problems except when inhaled or extream prolonged exposure.

I also remember reading an article about the dust issue with DU bullets, dont remember the credentials but it claimed that the density of the particles was more than enough to cause them to settle on the ground within a relativly short distance of the impact. Again dont remember the credentials on that one, so lemme know if thats wrong.

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>any sample of uranium is likely to contain both radio active and
>non radioactive isotopes, with the majority being non-radioactive.

All isotopes of uranium decay; some just decay faster than others. There's no such thing as non-radioactive uranium. U-238, though, has a low level of radioactivity, such that it is _usually_ not a health threat from radioactivity alone.

>EU (enriched uranium) is uranium that has undergone the
> enrichment process but contains less that or equal to 5% of the
> radioactive isotope, most commonly used in nuclear reactors and in
> the so-called dirty bombs (aka briefcase bombs, which are far
>different than the nuclear weapons as we think of them . . . .)

We're talking about three different things here:

1. Dirty bombs. These are conventional explosives wrapped in nuclear waste. This is typically NOT enriched uranium, because even 5% enriched uranium isn't all that radioactive. However, once that uranium has been used in a nuclear power plant, the irradiation it receives creates all sorts of nasty short-lived isotopes (i.e. not just of uranium but also plutonium, californium, neptunium, americium.) If such material was released it would be very deadly for a moderate amount of time (decades.) Thus spent reactor fuel is the biggest threat for dirty bombs.

2. Suitcase bombs. Both the US and the USSR have built very small nuclear bombs. One US nuclear bomb was designed to be launched by one man from a recoilless rifle, and weighed under 60 lbs. Another weighed about 150 pounds, and was designed for use by a parachutist (long story there.)

In 1997, a Russian National Security Adviser (Alexander Lebed) announced that the Russian military had lost track of more than 100 suitcase-sized bombs, sized around 24 x 16 x 8 inches (i.e. easily portable.) Some believed him, some didn't. It's now pretty clear that such devices were constructed at some point in the old USSR.

The good news is that generally the only way to make nuclear weapons that small is to use implosion-type bombs, and implosion bombs generally require a neutron source with a short half-life. (They often also use fusion boosting, which requires another short half-life material.) So it's likely that they are no longer useful. Unless, of course, a smart terrroist has access to one of these bombs _and_ some tritium.

3. Enriched uranium. EU can be used to make nuclear weapons as well; all you need is a critical mass. The higher the enrichment the lower the critical mass is. So HEU can be used to make small bombs, whereas you'd need hundreds of pounds (or tons) of EU, as well as good reflectors etc to make a bomb of similar yield, which makes it that much more difficult. A terrorist is going to have a hard time smuggling a few tons of uranium inside a good reflector anywhere.

>the short story is that if the DU tipped bullets are low enough in the
> radioactive isotope the alpha and beta particles that are emitted are
> far to few to cause real damage . . .

Right, but that's not why DU is dangerous. Lead isn't radioactive, but kids still get sick and die when they eat it (or breathe it in.) DU is poisonous, and can destroy your kidneys and immune system, and can cause birth defects. Again, it's because of its toxicity, not its radioactivity.

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Here is a very interesting read I found. On the study of DU rounds in 1977. Its kinda interesting how much we havent learned in almost 30 years.

http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_library/pdfs/1999071_0000017.pdf

Evaluations on this news site please?
http://www.sfbayview.com/012605/headsroll012605.shtml


Welcome to the New World Order. Expect no Mercy.

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1. Dirty bombs. These are conventional explosives wrapped in nuclear waste. This is typically NOT enriched uranium, because even 5% enriched uranium isn't all that radioactive. However, once that uranium has been used in a nuclear power plant, the irradiation it receives creates all sorts of nasty short-lived isotopes (i.e. not just of uranium but also plutonium, californium, neptunium, americium.) If such material was released it would be very deadly for a moderate amount of time (decades.) Thus spent reactor fuel is the biggest threat for dirty bombs.

2. Suitcase bombs. Both the US and the USSR have built very small nuclear bombs. One US nuclear bomb was designed to be launched by one man from a recoilless rifle, and weighed under 60 lbs. Another weighed about 150 pounds, and was designed for use by a parachutist (long story there.)



Not saying you are wrong, but there are many sources that allude to missing russian nuclear material much of it being EU for reactors, some of it being weapons grade, many "dirty bombs" are made from nuclear waste and there are many reports that there are some being made from higher U-235 content, as for the briefcase bomb, yes we and russia mad some nuclear weapons to be that size, but the terms briefcase bomb and dirty bomb are often use sunonomously (sp?) by others, and most intel reports sugest that dirty bombs would likely be carried in briefcases.

And if you know where i could read about the non-radioactive effect of a Uranium arresol inhalation please send me a link or something, i have looked for good studies on it before but always find just the effects no info about the study that concluded that.

p.s. dont take that last statement as a stab, i actually would like to know where to see the info.

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thats not that many rounds, it holds 1350 rounds and shoots them out at around 4000 per minute, think of all the a-10s over there, all the tanks, armor vehicles, troops and what ever else they found to shoot up its really not that many.
"The gun is accurate as well, capable of placing 80% of its shots within a 30 ft. wide circle from a distance of 1 mile while the aircraft is in flight. The chassis of the plane is actually built around the gun."
thats still a 20% miss rate but thats not bad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II
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1. Dirty bombs. These are conventional explosives wrapped in nuclear waste. This is typically NOT enriched uranium, because even 5% enriched uranium isn't all that radioactive. However, once that uranium has been used in a nuclear power plant, the irradiation it receives creates all sorts of nasty short-lived isotopes (i.e. not just of uranium but also plutonium, californium, neptunium, americium.) If such material was released it would be very deadly for a moderate amount of time (decades.) Thus spent reactor fuel is the biggest threat for dirty bombs.



I imagine you know that many fission products aren't particularly healthy either. ;)

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2. Suitcase bombs. Both the US and the USSR have built very small nuclear bombs. One US nuclear bomb was designed to be launched by one man from a recoilless rifle, and weighed under 60 lbs. Another weighed about 150 pounds, and was designed for use by a parachutist (long story there.)



The parachutist one sounds like the ultimate suicide bomber.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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>The parachutist one sounds like the ultimate suicide bomber.

Well, the idea was he'd land with it, put it on a ship or something, then swim out to a waiting submarine.



It's a parachutist. Not too bright. Much simpler to arm the parachutist before launch and wire up a touch detonator to his shoes so he explodes on landing. That would save at least two dolphins, and also the resources needed to make a robot to do the same function.

In any case, the world wouldn't have to worry about uranium if Americans wouldn't have invented it in the first place. We have so much evil to atone for, and if that means melting all the uranium into solar panel frames for impoverished nations, then I'll be first in line to give back all my uranium (which was, simply just taken from some poor Canadians in payment for a meal which I should have given for free - after all we can afford it after raping all the world's resources).

(Don't worry - I'm in North Cali for the week and am giving it a shot to fit in. So far so good - I've learned the 'speak' here in speaker's corner and am grateful to all. My next trip to Utah, I'm trying the other end of the spectrum.)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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In any case, the world wouldn't have to worry about uranium if Americans wouldn't have invented it in the first place.



Not one of your better satires:

"The discovery of uranium is commonly credited to Martin H. Klaproth, who in 1789, while experimenting with pitchblende, concluded that it contained a new element, which he named after the planet Uranus, discovered only eight years earlier. However, the substance that Klaproth identified was not pure uranium but an oxide. Eugene M. Péligot isolated the element in 1841. Antoine H. Becquerel discovered its radioactivity in 1896. Before the discovery of nuclear fission by Otto Hahn and Fritz Strassmann in 1939, the principal use of uranium (chiefly as the oxides) was in pigments, ceramic glazes, and a yellow-green fluorescent glass and as a source of radium for medical purposes. It has also been added to steels to increase their strength and toughness. However, because of the high toxicity (both chemical and radiological) of uranium and its compounds, and because of their importance as nuclear fuel, these earlier uses have been largely curtailed."
...

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In any case, the world wouldn't have to worry about uranium if Americans wouldn't have invented it in the first place.



Not one of your better satires:



I don't know what you mean. I'm enraged at the callousness of the capitalists. Did you know that George Bush Senior and Ronald Reagan used to slip uranium into cans of beans for the homeless. They'd just sit and giggle while the poor people ate the beans. It's all a plot by the defense industry to test pharmaceuticals for the Pentagon and the Rand corporation. Big Oil turned it down, not enough conflict.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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In any case, the world wouldn't have to worry about uranium if Americans wouldn't have invented it in the first place.



Not one of your better satires:



I don't know what you mean. I'm enraged at the callousness of the capitalists. Did you know that George Bush Senior and Ronald Reagan used to slip uranium into cans of beans for the homeless. They'd just sit and giggle while the poor people ate the beans. It's all a plot by the defense industry to test pharmaceuticals for the Pentagon and the Rand corporation. Big Oil turned it down, not enough conflict.



It would be funny if the government could really be trusted.
www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9801E5DA1638F935A15753C1A96F958260
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Hey we could always get some of the believers in its being inert and harmless crowd to snort some of the vaporized residue... and have them get back to us in say 20 years..... and see how many of them are still alive and cancer free:|

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the world wouldn't have to worry about uranium if Americans wouldn't have invented it in the first place.



Yeah, the world would be a much better place if the Nazis had invented it first.



The German chemist Martin Klaproth is credited with discovering uranium in samples of the mineral pitchblende in 1789.

Otto Hahn and associates Fritz Strassman and Lise Meitner discovered nuclear fission in 1938, at the University of BERLIN.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>Yeah, the world would be a much better place if the Nazis had
>invented it first.

Priceless! Yes, this is JUST LIKE Hitler.



How do you "invent" a basic element?
Why do people keep answering tongue in cheek postings like they were serious?
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsiepop?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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the world wouldn't have to worry about uranium if Americans wouldn't have invented it in the first place.



Yeah, the world would be a much better place if the Nazis had invented it first.



gotya

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Ok guys can we get back on topic now?

Is DU a danger to our service men in the Middle east?

On this topic I dont really care whos fault it is, I just want to know if it is going to be another Agent Orange like issue.

Thank you for your time


Welcome to the New World Order. Expect no Mercy.

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Is DU a danger to our service men in the Middle east?



on topic - I'd be more worried about bullets, big knives, and suicide bombers

that, and not getting enough exercise. Also, fatty foods.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Well you have a point there. The thing is my cousin is in tank repair so he's not likly to get shot at drectly but somhing lik DU might end up killing him anyway.

I wanted to bring the subect up to him as he is a very close family member of mine but I want to be really danmed informed when I do.

I have had the misfortune of seing other family members suffer from cancer due to Agent orange. And honestly I'd rather not bring up DU if it is a load of crap.


Welcome to the New World Order. Expect no Mercy.

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