champu 1
Why is there a need for a "gay day" for skydiving? Or any other kind of "day"?
By
peacefuljeffrey, in Speakers Corner
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QuoteThat really is not the reason I go to the dropzone. I go to the dropzone to skydive.
And therein lies the point of contention. Not everyone goes to the DZ just to skydive. I don't know if your girlfriend skydives, but if she does not, does she ever go to the DZ with you? Why?
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
billvon 2,417
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>Being straight (just like my ethnic descent) hasn't presented me
>with challenges, it has consistently been, as you say, "background
> nothingness." and so these are things about myself towards which I
> feel more or less indifferent.
For the most part I feel the same way. But while I was in Africa I got a very different reaction based on my skin color. People would judge me instantly at a glance, and the judgement was usually bad.
Now, I was only there a month; barely a blip on the radar screen. But if someone spent their whole life like that, I could see them being proud of maintaining their dignity while living in an environment like that.
Here in the US, we have (thankfully) gotten mostly beyond that. I think we still have a ways to go with sexual orientation in the general public, though. For the most part the skydivers I know are quite open minded, and don't have the same issues the general public has with homosexuality.
(Note to PJ - this is NOT a reply to you; it is a different direction in the discussion based on his answer.)
>with challenges, it has consistently been, as you say, "background
> nothingness." and so these are things about myself towards which I
> feel more or less indifferent.
For the most part I feel the same way. But while I was in Africa I got a very different reaction based on my skin color. People would judge me instantly at a glance, and the judgement was usually bad.
Now, I was only there a month; barely a blip on the radar screen. But if someone spent their whole life like that, I could see them being proud of maintaining their dignity while living in an environment like that.
Here in the US, we have (thankfully) gotten mostly beyond that. I think we still have a ways to go with sexual orientation in the general public, though. For the most part the skydivers I know are quite open minded, and don't have the same issues the general public has with homosexuality.
(Note to PJ - this is NOT a reply to you; it is a different direction in the discussion based on his answer.)
QuoteI want to direct your attention to the poll results, where you will see that not just a plurality but a MAJORITY of voters have said they aren't down with the division thing.
Are the results really all that surprizing, given that most of the people who voted were likely straight, white, males?
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
MC208B 0
Quote>Being straight (just like my ethnic descent) hasn't presented me
>with challenges, it has consistently been, as you say, "background
> nothingness." and so these are things about myself towards which I
> feel more or less indifferent.
For the most part I feel the same way. But while I was in Africa I got a very different reaction based on my skin color. People would judge me instantly at a glance, and the judgement was usually bad.
Now, I was only there a month; barely a blip on the radar screen. But if someone spent their whole life like that, I could see them being proud of maintaining their dignity while living in an environment like that.
Here in the US, we have (thankfully) gotten mostly beyond that. I think we still have a ways to go with sexual orientation in the general public, though. For the most part the skydivers I know are quite open minded, and don't have the same issues the general public has with homosexuality.
(Note to PJ - this is NOT a reply to you; it is a different direction in the discussion based on his answer.)
sniff....sniff.....I can relate Bill, being a haole living on Maui
And from reading through this thread, speedos, PJ okay with guys/gals checking out his ass etc. maybe PJ should join the fun and go to this boogie in a banana hammock?!?
QuoteQuote
I'd like it if the gay people who are reading here would post about experiences (maybe a new thread?) at dropzones where they were given a hassle, or a lack of welcome, because people there knew they were gay.
I have not seen it. I want to know if it's happening, or not.
No one replied to this direct request for experiences, so I will. I have not experienced outright abuse ever at a dz. (I have in other environments.) As for "given a hassle" or "lack of welcome," yes, in subtle ways.
"Given a hassle --" During a skydive, never. But much of my time at the dz would be spent not actually on a skydive, especially after beer light, and this is what I found was a hassle, based on me being gay:
People making anti-gay jokes that weren't funny. Walking away a lot was a hassle. I don't have to do that much walking away in environments where people don't make stupid anti-queer jokes. (I'm talking about jokes that are only funny if you think queer = ew!!)
People engaging me in conversations about being gay that were new and novel to them, but old and repetitive and tired and boring to me: "I had a gay friend once and..." "When did you know you were gay? How did you know? Did you ever try heterosexuality?" Again, having to either extricate myself and walk away, or play educator one more time, or deal with it at all, was a hassle. A hassle I don't encounter in environments where people don't even think about being gay any more that they think about being brunette (How does it feel to be a brunette? Do you remember noticing one day that your hair was brown?), or in environments where there are a lot more gay people around and I'm not the only resident expert.
I do not think the people involved ever intended to hassle me. They had good intentions I believe, but nonetheless being at a dz where I was the only known gay person "gave me a hassle."
As for "lack of welcome," I have found that some of the on-the-ground bonding activity at dzs, the inter-relating that can contribute to a feeling of welcome, often relies on shortcuts that presume traditional heterosexual roles and interactions. As a gay person, I have felt less of a welcome because of that. It's a part of the welcome that (some, not all) straight people there do with each other more, because they are fluent in it and share the language and communication cues. So I would say I feel a lack of it then.
Again, I don't believe anyone did this intentionally. Even the people I encountered who seemed deeply deeply uncomfortable with homosexuality never intentionally expressed that I was not welcome. It just feels less welcoming when you know that someone gets really uptight in your presence and you can't do a thing about it except ignore it. The fewer people I can engage with, the less "welcome" there is.
That is my reply, as a gay person. (P.S. -- this is a reply directly to your question, not a complaint or argument. I have no complaints about anyone's behavior, and I'm not looking for an argument today. And sorry if the tone is really dry, I just wanted to be clear in my answers.)
Quote>Does a gay man skydive differently from a straight man?
We were not talking about the same thing you are, and you know it. Geez, give it up already.
yeah, but in that case you deliberately used Dolph's reference to "sexuality" to mean physiology when he clearly meant sexual orientation.
QuoteI want to direct your attention to the poll results, where you will see that not just a plurality but a MAJORITY of voters have said they aren't down with the division thing.
Yeah, now count how many of those people have come out to argue their corner.
COME ON YOU PUSSIES!! COME OUT YOUR CLOSETS AND TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!!
Then again, your poll options were not the best as Wendy pointed out, noone wants the sport to be divided as such in those ways but then alot of people think that what's happening here is not divding the sport, mearly celebrating the fact that we are all different.
Oh...that and the copious amounts of filthy sex they are going to have.
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May Contain Nut traces......
champu 1
I agree completely. What constitutes "background nothingness" depends largely on what's going on in the rest of the "background", as one would expect.Quote>Being straight (just like my ethnic descent) hasn't presented me
>with challenges, it has consistently been, as you say, "background
> nothingness." and so these are things about myself towards which I
> feel more or less indifferent.
For the most part I feel the same way. But while I was in Africa I got a very different reaction based on my skin color. People would judge me instantly at a glance, and the judgement was usually bad.
Now, I was only there a month; barely a blip on the radar screen. But if someone spent their whole life like that, I could see them being proud of maintaining their dignity while living in an environment like that.
Here in the US, we have (thankfully) gotten mostly beyond that. I think we still have a ways to go with sexual orientation in the general public, though. For the most part the skydivers I know are quite open minded, and don't have the same issues the general public has with homosexuality.
I, for one, really appreciate your perspective, one that I could never have as a mostly straight, white female (all women have tendencies, don't ya know).
I did move to another country as a teenager, and still, to this day, identify deeply with anyone British, regardless of the environment. The slang, culture, accents, etc, are all things that bring me joy and a feeling of belonging. I even like talking to Prof Kallend.
Is it divisive if I gravitate toward someone at the DZ if I know they are English (not Welsh, Scottish or Irish, they're all heathens)? If I know someone emmigrated, then that's another check on the list of commonality, and one that I don't find in most people. They're going to "get" me more and the issues that I've experienced.
It doesn't mean I don't like American-born people, and it's far from being divisive. I don't turn a shoulder if an American wants to join in the fun.
PJ is maybe an island unto himself, but most folks enjoy and feel comforted when they are in the company of people with similar backgrounds and experiences. Some people can even relish different people BECAUSE of their differences and seek out different sub-cultures to gain some insight.
I don't see this boogie as divisive, I see it as inclusive.
I did move to another country as a teenager, and still, to this day, identify deeply with anyone British, regardless of the environment. The slang, culture, accents, etc, are all things that bring me joy and a feeling of belonging. I even like talking to Prof Kallend.
Is it divisive if I gravitate toward someone at the DZ if I know they are English (not Welsh, Scottish or Irish, they're all heathens)? If I know someone emmigrated, then that's another check on the list of commonality, and one that I don't find in most people. They're going to "get" me more and the issues that I've experienced.
It doesn't mean I don't like American-born people, and it's far from being divisive. I don't turn a shoulder if an American wants to join in the fun.
PJ is maybe an island unto himself, but most folks enjoy and feel comforted when they are in the company of people with similar backgrounds and experiences. Some people can even relish different people BECAUSE of their differences and seek out different sub-cultures to gain some insight.
I don't see this boogie as divisive, I see it as inclusive.
QuoteI don't see this boogie as divisive, I see it as inclusive.
Nobody sees it as divisive.
Not even "Peaceful" Jeffrey does. He just sees it as an opportunity to fight.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Quote
Oh...that and the copious amounts of filthy sex they are going to have.
ya know, I'm picking up a pattern here....you keep goin on about gay sex, orgies and that you've got a gay brother....sure there's somethin u aint telling us
so we'll see you at the rainbow boogie? Coool
To expand on my previous post (even though assuming anyone actually read it is a long shot at best...
People like making accomplishments. You'll notice I listed "skydiver" and "engineer" when describing myself. Becoming a skydiver has presented a great many challenges to me, dedication of time and money to name a couple. Becoming an Engineer has likewise cost me time and money, and at times pushed me to the limits of my sanity to get through the enormous amounts of work it involved. This is why these are things I'm proud of, and it's why they are high on the list of things I use to identify myself.
Being straight (just like my ethnic descent) hasn't presented me with challenges, it has consistently been, as you say, "background nothingness." and so these are things about myself towards which I feel more or less indifferent.
But to conclude that my feelings regarding my sexuality should be the baseline for all of humanity would be absurd.
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