sfc 0 #51 January 5, 2006 QuoteI loved the U.K. -- I was a mild anglophile -- as a kid and teen, and on into college (what you call "university"). I studied abroad at Middlesex University (Hertfordshire) in my senior year. I really enjoyed it... but then, I was not "political" then. When I got back, my pistol license had been approved where I was living then. I soon became aware, as I had not been before, about the political and social issues that surround gun ownership. And then came 1997's gun ban in Britain -- to say nothing of what I learned about the right to self defense in England over the preceding decades (regarding its deterioration at law). I would love to be able to love Britain again, and I would, except for the utter lunacy of its legal reality. Quote Why you deprive yourself of such a pleasure based on a political perspective from a different culture is beyond my comprehension. Most people in the USA and UK do not walk around with a gun or other form of weapon and they are perfectly happy with this state of affairs. I gather the thought of doing so terrifies you and you feel the need to be armed all the time. I would seriously recommend seeing a shrink or seeking some other form of counselling to help you with this, living a life in fear of the unknown is not somthing I would enjoy. It seems, from this view, that you are really on the other side of the looking glass, there. Quote No not really. I support the ban in the UK (my home country of 30 years), but I would disagree with one in the USA (where I have lived the last 6 years), my view on gun ownership takes several things into consideration, you should try looking at the local situation in the UK rather than assuming that everyone should think the same way you do. Look at the UK and ask yourself the question, would the UK really benefit from handgun ownership, read the views and reasoning of the locals. -Jeffrey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #52 January 5, 2006 I'm afraid John I simply cannot reconcile the author's statements with what the BCS actually says. The British Crime Survey 2004-05 (which the author specifically cites) does not conclude that "All categories measured by the British Crime Survey... showed a rise of between one and six per cent." That is patently false and is either an outright lie by the author or the result of a most heinous miss-citation. Either way it is highly troubling Here, for your convenience are some of the things that the BCS does conclude: "The BCS shows a fall of 11 per cent in the number of violent crimes experienced by adults living in private households between 2003/04 and 2004/05." "Longer-term trends in BCS violence show substantial declines. Violent crime reported to the BCS has fallen by 43 per cent from the peak in 1995 to the current level and by 34 per cent since 1997." "Since peaking in 1995, BCS crime has fallen by 44 per cent, representing 8.5 million fewer crimes, with vehicle crime and burglary falling by over a half (both by 57%) and violent crime falling by 43 per cent during this period." I've continually invited you to look at the primary sources themselves John, instead of relying on poorly written media articles which misquote and miss-cite their subject matter, if not actually lie to you. If you would just take me up on that invitation you would avoid these embarrassing mistakes. Please see the attached graphs which are published in the British Crime Survey; they really ought to make the position quite clear for everyone. If anyone doubts the accuracy of my quotations or attachments please do feel free to drop in on the original BCS documents, hosted and free to access on the Government's website. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #53 January 5, 2006 .. and that, your honour, is all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #54 January 5, 2006 Message #27, mikkey: QuoteIt is so funny how JR continues to run this disinformation campaign regarding guns / crime in the UK. I posted a newspaper story, which printed statistics from the Home Office. If you consider what I posted to be disinformation, then that would be the fault of the newspaper or the Home Office, not me. It's amusing that you can't even get the attribution correct, yet feel qualified enough to blame me. Message #46, scoop: QuoteIm waiting for the day when we hear that John has gone psycho on some old lady who asked him if he had the time, because thats the impression you paint CALM IT DOWN GEEZ I post a news story which shows that government statistics indicate crime with weapons is increasing, and somehow from that you conclude that I'm prone to attack little old ladies. Do you realize how extremely ridiculous this makes your logical reasoning skills appear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #55 January 5, 2006 QuoteI'm afraid John I simply cannot reconcile the author's statements with what the BCS actually says. Apples & Oranges, I think. This is probably the difference between the BCS stats, and the Home Office (police recorded) stats, which can show different trends for the same thing. We've been over that before in other threads... Otherwise, you're telling us that the newspaper and the Home Office are intentionally lying to the British public. Do you believe that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,150 #56 January 5, 2006 QuoteWeapons including knives, clubs, firearms, stones and glasses or bottles were used in 24 per cent of violent incidents in 2004-05 – up from 21 per cent the previous year. and then you follow with: QuoteYeah, that gun confiscation did wonders to the violent crime rate! it doesn't even make sense. So violent incidents with an array of weapons (which could very well mean that firearms are down, yet the other weapoinry increased) are up. Incidents in which no harm was done....and you some how correlate that to the effectiveness of gun confiscation?? Was one of the stated objectives to reduce violent incidents with clubs, knives, glasses and bottles? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #57 January 6, 2006 QuoteOK, a policeman was killed. Yeah, tragic, but shit happens from time to time. I fail to see how by being armed it will prevent furthur incidents as it will just push offenders to carry too. Carry what? Banned guns? If you're admitting that despite the ban, the criminals get the guns they want to do the crimes they want, then you are admitting that the ban affected the non-criminals who no one has to worry about, and the criminals still can arm themselves and be dangerous. Thanks for doing our work for us, proving once again that bans affect only the good people who let themselves be affected, and are USELESS at addressing crime. QuoteWe can get in an argument with someone, stand up for ourselves without fear that they are gonna pull a gun on us or have this concealed carry permit. That's an asinine, ignorant assertion that concealed carry licensees are reckless, dangerous people. If we were that reckless and inclined toward criminality, why the fuck did we go to the government with a fingerprint card and pay a fee to get a right bestowed that we should already have had? CCW licensees are across-the-board MORE law-abiding than the average rest of society. Arrest/conviction reports I have read about bear this out. I've seen it stated (by people who have done studies) that COPS are arrested for crimes at a higher rate than CCW licensees. QuoteIm waiting for the day when we hear that John has gone psycho on some old lady who asked him if he had the time, because thats the impression you paint CALM IT DOWN GEEZ You paint the impression of being a bigot against anyone who owns a gun, and your comment about JohnRich is just a hair away from being a personal attack, in my view. Talk about projection! Do you really live in that much fear of those who have guns?! Even the legal ones?! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #58 January 6, 2006 Quoteover new years eve there was 38 stabbings in England, I think I heard about two incidents of gun crime. By your logic John we should let everyone carry a knife. Why would they need you to LET them? They're apparently doing it regardless. The idea that you have laws against the carrying of a basic human tool like a knife is the source of endless hilarity for us Americans, believe me. Next, you'll need a license (which your government will of course deny you) to carry a cigarette lighter. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropoutdave 0 #59 January 6, 2006 QuoteThen Mark suggestsd putting the Welsh in charge!!! Have you ever seen The Welsh Assembly in action!? Isn't this the Welsh assembly in action? Oh no, that's chasing cheese down a hill. ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #60 January 6, 2006 John, have you noticed that none of the Brits contributing to this thread give a shit about the UK handgun ban? Why do you suppose that is? Do you think we're representative of UK opinion? If not, why not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #61 January 6, 2006 <> (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sfc 0 #62 January 6, 2006 QuoteJohn, have you noticed that none of the Brits contributing to this thread give a shit about the UK handgun ban? Why do you suppose that is? Do you think we're representative of UK opinion? If not, why not? You are presuming that John gives a shit about public opinion, I believe he is pushing his own agenda and to hell with what the people really want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlexCrowley 0 #63 January 6, 2006 its a MILITANT FUDDY DUDDY AGENDA. or did someone already say that? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #64 January 9, 2006 News from England:A TEENAGER was raped as she walked home - the fourth time a woman has been attacked in the city in just five weeks. The 17-year-old victim was walking along Worsley Road in Swinton when she was dragged into an alleyway and raped. A police spokesman said; "You can use reasonable force in self-defence and you are allowed to protect yourself with something you are carrying like a car key or a can of deodorant but you may not carry a weapon."Source: Salford Advertiser There you have it Brits: you may now carry a can of deoderant for self defense against criminal attack. Woohoo! Don't you feel safe now? Officer: "Can you describe your attacker?" Victim: "Yes sir! He now smells like Right Guard deoderant!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #65 January 9, 2006 QuoteBy Jove, you're right! Instead, I can bitch about your atrocious grammar and sentence structure! -Jeffrey and our bad teeth ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #66 January 9, 2006 How many high school massacres are there in America compared to over here?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #67 January 9, 2006 Good gad man, now look what your done..... You've only gone and started an under-arms race race..... Today deodorant... tomorrow assault riffles. I'm off to France, where there' no possibility of such a thing happening . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,265 #68 January 9, 2006 QuoteThere you have it Brits: you may now carry a can of deoderant for self defense against criminal attack. Woohoo! Don't you feel safe now? Uhh, actually yes, I do feel safe. Thats the point we have been trying to make to you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #69 January 9, 2006 British law states that if you carry any article with the intention of it being used as a weapon... it is an offensive weapon. ie, peopl ethat carry baseball bats in their cars, kubotans on their key rings or evena sharpeneded hair brush. It might sound dumb to you but its very effective. Stop and search is an amazingly invasive power that we use regularly on our persistant offenders. We love going through there pockets and disrupting thir day and they hate getting nicked for being in posession of something they shouldnt. Remember it was the UK police that were criticised for supposedly abusing this power. I think we do a good job of keeping the streets clean and I think the public feel quite saafe. Its when the media twist figures and manipulate statements that they begin to worry. Fear of crime is greatly disproportionate to the actual reality of the scale of things. Either its a different culture over here or you get caught up in the hype yourself. Echoing the other posters thoughts. I FEEL SAFE ON THE STREETS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #70 January 9, 2006 i feel safe on the streets too I think it's down to the fact that i don't believe the average criminal is going to be carrying a gun, yes of course you are still going to get a few criminals carrying guns, but not the majority Guns are hard to get hold of in the UK compared to the USA. Pro gun people always jump up and down arguing that the VERY FEW people who get shot, like recent shooting of the police woman, are reason why we all should be allowed to carry guns. I don't think the few tragic incidents should dictate the gun cultour of our country I think that Americans expect a robber or asailent to be acrrying a gun, so they want to have one just incase they do... the average UK person does not expect somebody to be carrying a gun, so on average we don't feel the need to carry one "just incase" for our own safety There are of course exceptions to every rule, and i'm sure the pro-gun people can quote where a gun might have saved somebodies life, but the vast majority of crimes in this country are not gun related________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlexCrowley 0 #71 January 9, 2006 Someone like John is never going to understand that. It's simply not done in the US, no one trusts anyone and everyone will point to a million justifications as to why. It's part of the huge cultural divide. In the US I can't imagine walking too far at night without something on hand, whereas I'd still happily walk home from a bar at night in most places in the UK - including some inner city areas. The only time I'd take anything for self defense was ...ummm......actually I can't say I ever felt the need for that in the UK. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #72 January 9, 2006 QuoteIn the US I can't imagine walking too far at night without something on hand, whereas I'd still happily walk home from a bar at night in most places in the UK - including some inner city areas. I have yet to make it out to the Boston area but have always wanted to get there. I never imagined it was such a place. I can't say I have every been really afraid to walk at night in the US. The only thing that sucks about it in the large cities is the homeless people looking for a handout. Now true there are likely some areas in every city that I may feel uncomfortable walking alone at night, but either I have never found them or reconized them and stayed away. I find it hard to believe the UK does not have "bad neighborhoods" Now I have not been to NY City yet. I am going there in May so I hope I make it out alive. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #73 January 9, 2006 QuoteNews from England:A TEENAGER was raped as she walked home - the fourth time a woman has been attacked in the city in just five weeks. The 17-year-old victim was walking along Worsley Road in Swinton when she was dragged into an alleyway and raped. A police spokesman said; "You can use reasonable force in self-defence and you are allowed to protect yourself with something you are carrying like a car key or a can of deodorant but you may not carry a weapon."Source: Salford Advertiser There you have it Brits: you may now carry a can of deoderant for self defense against criminal attack. Woohoo! Don't you feel safe now? Officer: "Can you describe your attacker?" Victim: "Yes sir! He now smells like Right Guard deoderant!" Bwahahaha.... JR, do I smell a little sense of humor? Hmmmmm ??? How many hours of your life did you spent to follow your private investigations regarding indictable offences (UK) during last months/perhaps years? Be careful, that one day might end in a hobby, or in worst case: constriction, that's dangerous - like skydiving Bwahahaha.... I like your sense of (hidden) humor. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlexCrowley 0 #74 January 9, 2006 I didnt say there werent any. I'm saying that the level of paranoia is different in general. Attitudes like John's regarding self defence are somewhat alien to most Brits because they dont need to think that way - however natural it may seem to a USian. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sfc 0 #75 January 9, 2006 QuoteIt's part of the huge cultural divide. In the US I can't imagine walking too far at night without something on hand, whereas I'd still happily walk home from a bar at night in most places in the UK - including some inner city areas. I moved over here (USA) 6 years ago, and except for an off duty cop I still have to meet someone in person who carries a gun on their person (or vehicle). I have co-workers that have guns at home but none carry, I have never felt the need to arm myself either here or in the UK. Legal non-professional gun carriers are rare even in the US, even gun owners are in a minority in the USA. I think the effectiveness of an armed civilian is very limited even in protecting themselves, there are of course exceptions and I'm sure someone will post a link to them just to prove me wrong. The pro-gun issue is really wanting to exercise a right that others are trying to take away, a kind of stubbon in your face type of resistance, an example is what we see from the gun supporters on this site with these pro-gun posts. There is also the person who has to prove that "my dick is bigger than yours" as well, some do it with guns, they are probably outspoken about the right to carry as they need to let people know that they carry. I'd be curious to know the percentage of male vs. female CCW people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 3 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
JohnRich 4 #54 January 5, 2006 Message #27, mikkey: QuoteIt is so funny how JR continues to run this disinformation campaign regarding guns / crime in the UK. I posted a newspaper story, which printed statistics from the Home Office. If you consider what I posted to be disinformation, then that would be the fault of the newspaper or the Home Office, not me. It's amusing that you can't even get the attribution correct, yet feel qualified enough to blame me. Message #46, scoop: QuoteIm waiting for the day when we hear that John has gone psycho on some old lady who asked him if he had the time, because thats the impression you paint CALM IT DOWN GEEZ I post a news story which shows that government statistics indicate crime with weapons is increasing, and somehow from that you conclude that I'm prone to attack little old ladies. Do you realize how extremely ridiculous this makes your logical reasoning skills appear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #55 January 5, 2006 QuoteI'm afraid John I simply cannot reconcile the author's statements with what the BCS actually says. Apples & Oranges, I think. This is probably the difference between the BCS stats, and the Home Office (police recorded) stats, which can show different trends for the same thing. We've been over that before in other threads... Otherwise, you're telling us that the newspaper and the Home Office are intentionally lying to the British public. Do you believe that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #56 January 5, 2006 QuoteWeapons including knives, clubs, firearms, stones and glasses or bottles were used in 24 per cent of violent incidents in 2004-05 – up from 21 per cent the previous year. and then you follow with: QuoteYeah, that gun confiscation did wonders to the violent crime rate! it doesn't even make sense. So violent incidents with an array of weapons (which could very well mean that firearms are down, yet the other weapoinry increased) are up. Incidents in which no harm was done....and you some how correlate that to the effectiveness of gun confiscation?? Was one of the stated objectives to reduce violent incidents with clubs, knives, glasses and bottles? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #57 January 6, 2006 QuoteOK, a policeman was killed. Yeah, tragic, but shit happens from time to time. I fail to see how by being armed it will prevent furthur incidents as it will just push offenders to carry too. Carry what? Banned guns? If you're admitting that despite the ban, the criminals get the guns they want to do the crimes they want, then you are admitting that the ban affected the non-criminals who no one has to worry about, and the criminals still can arm themselves and be dangerous. Thanks for doing our work for us, proving once again that bans affect only the good people who let themselves be affected, and are USELESS at addressing crime. QuoteWe can get in an argument with someone, stand up for ourselves without fear that they are gonna pull a gun on us or have this concealed carry permit. That's an asinine, ignorant assertion that concealed carry licensees are reckless, dangerous people. If we were that reckless and inclined toward criminality, why the fuck did we go to the government with a fingerprint card and pay a fee to get a right bestowed that we should already have had? CCW licensees are across-the-board MORE law-abiding than the average rest of society. Arrest/conviction reports I have read about bear this out. I've seen it stated (by people who have done studies) that COPS are arrested for crimes at a higher rate than CCW licensees. QuoteIm waiting for the day when we hear that John has gone psycho on some old lady who asked him if he had the time, because thats the impression you paint CALM IT DOWN GEEZ You paint the impression of being a bigot against anyone who owns a gun, and your comment about JohnRich is just a hair away from being a personal attack, in my view. Talk about projection! Do you really live in that much fear of those who have guns?! Even the legal ones?! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #58 January 6, 2006 Quoteover new years eve there was 38 stabbings in England, I think I heard about two incidents of gun crime. By your logic John we should let everyone carry a knife. Why would they need you to LET them? They're apparently doing it regardless. The idea that you have laws against the carrying of a basic human tool like a knife is the source of endless hilarity for us Americans, believe me. Next, you'll need a license (which your government will of course deny you) to carry a cigarette lighter. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #59 January 6, 2006 QuoteThen Mark suggestsd putting the Welsh in charge!!! Have you ever seen The Welsh Assembly in action!? Isn't this the Welsh assembly in action? Oh no, that's chasing cheese down a hill. ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #60 January 6, 2006 John, have you noticed that none of the Brits contributing to this thread give a shit about the UK handgun ban? Why do you suppose that is? Do you think we're representative of UK opinion? If not, why not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #61 January 6, 2006 <> (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #62 January 6, 2006 QuoteJohn, have you noticed that none of the Brits contributing to this thread give a shit about the UK handgun ban? Why do you suppose that is? Do you think we're representative of UK opinion? If not, why not? You are presuming that John gives a shit about public opinion, I believe he is pushing his own agenda and to hell with what the people really want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #63 January 6, 2006 its a MILITANT FUDDY DUDDY AGENDA. or did someone already say that? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #64 January 9, 2006 News from England:A TEENAGER was raped as she walked home - the fourth time a woman has been attacked in the city in just five weeks. The 17-year-old victim was walking along Worsley Road in Swinton when she was dragged into an alleyway and raped. A police spokesman said; "You can use reasonable force in self-defence and you are allowed to protect yourself with something you are carrying like a car key or a can of deodorant but you may not carry a weapon."Source: Salford Advertiser There you have it Brits: you may now carry a can of deoderant for self defense against criminal attack. Woohoo! Don't you feel safe now? Officer: "Can you describe your attacker?" Victim: "Yes sir! He now smells like Right Guard deoderant!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #65 January 9, 2006 QuoteBy Jove, you're right! Instead, I can bitch about your atrocious grammar and sentence structure! -Jeffrey and our bad teeth ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #66 January 9, 2006 How many high school massacres are there in America compared to over here?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #67 January 9, 2006 Good gad man, now look what your done..... You've only gone and started an under-arms race race..... Today deodorant... tomorrow assault riffles. I'm off to France, where there' no possibility of such a thing happening . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,265 #68 January 9, 2006 QuoteThere you have it Brits: you may now carry a can of deoderant for self defense against criminal attack. Woohoo! Don't you feel safe now? Uhh, actually yes, I do feel safe. Thats the point we have been trying to make to you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #69 January 9, 2006 British law states that if you carry any article with the intention of it being used as a weapon... it is an offensive weapon. ie, peopl ethat carry baseball bats in their cars, kubotans on their key rings or evena sharpeneded hair brush. It might sound dumb to you but its very effective. Stop and search is an amazingly invasive power that we use regularly on our persistant offenders. We love going through there pockets and disrupting thir day and they hate getting nicked for being in posession of something they shouldnt. Remember it was the UK police that were criticised for supposedly abusing this power. I think we do a good job of keeping the streets clean and I think the public feel quite saafe. Its when the media twist figures and manipulate statements that they begin to worry. Fear of crime is greatly disproportionate to the actual reality of the scale of things. Either its a different culture over here or you get caught up in the hype yourself. Echoing the other posters thoughts. I FEEL SAFE ON THE STREETS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #70 January 9, 2006 i feel safe on the streets too I think it's down to the fact that i don't believe the average criminal is going to be carrying a gun, yes of course you are still going to get a few criminals carrying guns, but not the majority Guns are hard to get hold of in the UK compared to the USA. Pro gun people always jump up and down arguing that the VERY FEW people who get shot, like recent shooting of the police woman, are reason why we all should be allowed to carry guns. I don't think the few tragic incidents should dictate the gun cultour of our country I think that Americans expect a robber or asailent to be acrrying a gun, so they want to have one just incase they do... the average UK person does not expect somebody to be carrying a gun, so on average we don't feel the need to carry one "just incase" for our own safety There are of course exceptions to every rule, and i'm sure the pro-gun people can quote where a gun might have saved somebodies life, but the vast majority of crimes in this country are not gun related________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #71 January 9, 2006 Someone like John is never going to understand that. It's simply not done in the US, no one trusts anyone and everyone will point to a million justifications as to why. It's part of the huge cultural divide. In the US I can't imagine walking too far at night without something on hand, whereas I'd still happily walk home from a bar at night in most places in the UK - including some inner city areas. The only time I'd take anything for self defense was ...ummm......actually I can't say I ever felt the need for that in the UK. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #72 January 9, 2006 QuoteIn the US I can't imagine walking too far at night without something on hand, whereas I'd still happily walk home from a bar at night in most places in the UK - including some inner city areas. I have yet to make it out to the Boston area but have always wanted to get there. I never imagined it was such a place. I can't say I have every been really afraid to walk at night in the US. The only thing that sucks about it in the large cities is the homeless people looking for a handout. Now true there are likely some areas in every city that I may feel uncomfortable walking alone at night, but either I have never found them or reconized them and stayed away. I find it hard to believe the UK does not have "bad neighborhoods" Now I have not been to NY City yet. I am going there in May so I hope I make it out alive. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #73 January 9, 2006 QuoteNews from England:A TEENAGER was raped as she walked home - the fourth time a woman has been attacked in the city in just five weeks. The 17-year-old victim was walking along Worsley Road in Swinton when she was dragged into an alleyway and raped. A police spokesman said; "You can use reasonable force in self-defence and you are allowed to protect yourself with something you are carrying like a car key or a can of deodorant but you may not carry a weapon."Source: Salford Advertiser There you have it Brits: you may now carry a can of deoderant for self defense against criminal attack. Woohoo! Don't you feel safe now? Officer: "Can you describe your attacker?" Victim: "Yes sir! He now smells like Right Guard deoderant!" Bwahahaha.... JR, do I smell a little sense of humor? Hmmmmm ??? How many hours of your life did you spent to follow your private investigations regarding indictable offences (UK) during last months/perhaps years? Be careful, that one day might end in a hobby, or in worst case: constriction, that's dangerous - like skydiving Bwahahaha.... I like your sense of (hidden) humor. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #74 January 9, 2006 I didnt say there werent any. I'm saying that the level of paranoia is different in general. Attitudes like John's regarding self defence are somewhat alien to most Brits because they dont need to think that way - however natural it may seem to a USian. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #75 January 9, 2006 QuoteIt's part of the huge cultural divide. In the US I can't imagine walking too far at night without something on hand, whereas I'd still happily walk home from a bar at night in most places in the UK - including some inner city areas. I moved over here (USA) 6 years ago, and except for an off duty cop I still have to meet someone in person who carries a gun on their person (or vehicle). I have co-workers that have guns at home but none carry, I have never felt the need to arm myself either here or in the UK. Legal non-professional gun carriers are rare even in the US, even gun owners are in a minority in the USA. I think the effectiveness of an armed civilian is very limited even in protecting themselves, there are of course exceptions and I'm sure someone will post a link to them just to prove me wrong. The pro-gun issue is really wanting to exercise a right that others are trying to take away, a kind of stubbon in your face type of resistance, an example is what we see from the gun supporters on this site with these pro-gun posts. There is also the person who has to prove that "my dick is bigger than yours" as well, some do it with guns, they are probably outspoken about the right to carry as they need to let people know that they carry. I'd be curious to know the percentage of male vs. female CCW people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
