artistcalledian 0 #1 November 27, 2005 How many years do you think it will take before china is the biggest super power on the planet? China is already by far the most populated, and its industrial might is growing faster each year. I think within 5 years Ameican will be the second class citizen to China. China will have the largets military force, with the most sophisticated arsenal ever known. It'll be China calling all the shots and everybody else (including America) following The olympics in 2008 will be testament to their superiority, they came 5th in the medal table in 1984, 4th in 1992, 3rd in 2000 and 2nd last year in Athens. 2008 will see them be first in the medal table I think the world will take on a different slant (no pun intended) once American loses its crown and China takes over, should be very interesting to say the least________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #2 November 27, 2005 Highly doubt it...at least your 5 year assessment. The Chinese govt has very little support from its people, so the whole "billion man army" coming to enforce China's will is ludicrous at best. At this point, China does not have the technological capability to even come close to taking over the world. Thirdly, the Chinese govt is so obsessed with the country's future (and its survival) that they will think too much for their own good, leading to second guessing, and change of plans/direction (has happened consistently for many years). All of this will keep them in possibly a regional hegemon state, but certainly not a single hegemon in the system (at least for any time in the foreseeable future). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 November 27, 2005 QuoteI think within 5 years Ameican will be the second class citizen to China. So if China becomes the world's superpower, that will make the US second class citizens to China? Does that mean the rest of the world is currently second class citizens to the US right now? How does it feel to be a second class citizen? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #4 November 27, 2005 Cun[t]fusious he say.... With power does not always come Class (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #5 November 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think within 5 years Ameican will be the second class citizen to China. So if China becomes the world's superpower, that will make the US second class citizens to China? Does that mean the rest of the world is currently second class citizens to the US right now? How does it feel to be a second class citizen? Derek not too bad actually...could be worse, i could be a third class citizen in africa ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #6 November 27, 2005 QuoteHow many years do you think it will take before china is the biggest super power on the planet? China is already by far the most populated, and its industrial might is growing faster each year. I think within 5 years Ameican will be the second class citizen to China. China's success is totally dependent on the U.S. Let's say that the US suddenly stopped all imports from China (not likely, to say the least!). Their economy would crumble. Further, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other countries. How long can they sustain that? The Chinese government also subsidizes the manufacturers. I've heard that factories do not pay for the electricity they use, but I have not been able to verify this. Quote China will have the largets military force, with the most sophisticated arsenal ever known. It'll be China calling all the shots and everybody else (including America) following Anyone who lived through the Cold War years knows this is simply not true. Quote The olympics in 2008 will be testament to their superiority, they came 5th in the medal table in 1984, 4th in 1992, 3rd in 2000 and 2nd last year in Athens. 2008 will see them be first in the medal table Tell me, oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me that you don't think that way. This is equivalent to saying that China is better because their trained monkeys are better than our trained monkeys. The whole concept of the Olympics is so ludicrous that I can't believe you have bought into it to the degree that you apparently have. Let me spell it out for you. The Olympics is a business--plain and simple. They are in the entertainment business. When you are watching the Olympics, you are watching sporting events. If Argentina beats the US at soccer, does that mean they would beat us in a war? It's blowing my mind that you even think of the Olympics in relation to this topic. If you were some sort of total retard I could understand, but geeeez!!! Quote I think the world will take on a different slant (no pun intended) once American loses its crown and China takes over, should be very interesting to say the least I think you have gotten sucked in by the media way too much. They have a thing for playing up the drama in any story. As I said previously, anyone who lived through the Cold War years understands that no single country can dominate the world. Not the US. Not China. Not the former Soviet Union. Nobody. Want to see how truly powerful a country is? Look at the underpinnings of their economy. Is it vulnerable? In most cases the answer is a very clear "yes". It seems to be a "yes" for China. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #7 November 27, 2005 QuoteIf you were some sort of total retard I could understand i'm not? ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #8 November 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you were some sort of total retard I could understand i'm not? Despite some excellent efforts on your part, I remain unconvinced that you are some sort of total retard. I see you as being much as I am--a wiseass that likes to stir things up. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #9 November 27, 2005 Quotenot too bad actually...could be worse, i could be a third class citizen in africa I don't think your countrymen would agree that they are second class citizens. I don't think of them, you, or any other country as second class citizens. Sounds like an inferiority complex or something. It also sounds like you want China to be the new superpower just so that the US isn’t. Careful what you wish for, the US may not perfect, but take a good hard look at China. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #10 November 27, 2005 QuoteQuotenot too bad actually...could be worse, i could be a third class citizen in africa I don't think your countrymen would agree that they are second class citizens. I don't think of them, you, or any other country as second class citizens. Sounds like an inferiority complex or something. It also sounds like you want China to be the new superpower just so that the US isn’t. Careful what you wish for, the US may not perfect, but take a good hard look at China. Derek The US graduates more lawyers than the rest of the world combined. China graduates more engineers than the US. US companies are expected to outsource over 3 million technical jobs to China over the next 10 years. We are not losing the lead, we are giving it away . America by the numbers No. 1? Image by Jane Sherman by Michael Ventura February 23, 2005 No concept lies more firmly embedded in our national character than the notion that the USA is "No. 1," "the greatest." Our broadcast media are, in essence, continuous advertisements for the brand name "America Is No. 1." Any office seeker saying otherwise would be committing political suicide. In fact, anyone saying otherwise will be labeled "un-American." We're an "empire," ain't we? Sure we are. An empire without a manufacturing base. An empire that must borrow $2 billion a day from its competitors in order to function. Yet the delusion is ineradicable. We're No. 1. Well...this is the country you really live in: The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004). The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005). "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78). Our workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere! "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70). "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70). Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore. The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less. "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping. Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.) "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty. Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004). The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005). Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005). The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004). "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time. "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69). "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68). The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005). U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005). Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005). Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture. Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. (Hear that, you poor deluded cowboys?) As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate. One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004). "Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28). "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32). Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004). "Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004). "The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004). No. 1? In most important categories we're not even in the Top 10 anymore. Not even close. The USA is "No. 1" in nothing but weaponry, consumer spending, debt, and delusion. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #11 November 27, 2005 Quote The US graduates more lawyers than the rest of the world combined. China graduates more engineers than the US. US companies are expected to outsource over 3 million technical jobs to China over the next 10 years. We are not losing the lead, we are giving it away Which has what to do with some British guy thinking he is a second class citizen and wants China to be the next superpower so that the US isn't? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #12 November 27, 2005 QuoteQuote The US graduates more lawyers than the rest of the world combined. China graduates more engineers than the US. US companies are expected to outsource over 3 million technical jobs to China over the next 10 years. We are not losing the lead, we are giving it away Which has what to do with some British guy thinking he is a second class citizen and wants China to be the next superpower so that the US isn't? Derek What does your comment have to do with this thread, the title of which is: USA V China ?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 November 27, 2005 QuoteWhat does your comment have to do with this thread, the title of which is: USA V China ? The thread isn't just about the title, I was replying to the text of the first post, not just the title, which my comment pertained to. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #14 November 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat does your comment have to do with this thread, the title of which is: USA V China ? The thread isn't just about the title, I was replying to the text of the first post, not just the title, which my comment pertained to. Derek Cool, and I was commenting on the actual topic of the thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #15 November 27, 2005 QuoteThe Olympics is a business--plain and simple. Try telling that to the athletes who spend much of their youth and teen years striving to be the best they can be. Suggesting athletes are like "trained monkeys" is a just plain ignorant. I do agree, however, that the Olympics have absolutely nothing to do at all with a nation being a "world power". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #16 November 28, 2005 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/pychoscot/Scans/Shirt1.jpg________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #17 November 28, 2005 That was such a brilliant and intellectual response. I now see the "logic" of your arguments. Your skills at debate are amazing. Oh... and yes, that was sarcasm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #18 November 28, 2005 QuoteThat was such a brilliant and intellectual response. I now see the "logic" of your arguments. Your skills at debate are amazing. Oh... and yes, that was sarcasm. no shit sherlock !________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #19 November 28, 2005 I'm glad you understand. And this is not just an American problem. It's a problem for all of North America. Every dominate society in human history has fallen. The USA is no different. How's your Manderin (sp?) and Cantonese? It better be good since we won't be speaking much English in the board rooms in the foreseable future. Manufacturing in North America is almost non-existent and while "yes" China had exploited it's work force, they don't care they have enough labor to exploit and neither does corporate America care. Viewing the poverty levels in America should be a sign the the wealthy doesn't give a shit about anybody other than the almighty dollar. God (if there even is a god) help us here in North America. We're in trouble ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #20 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe Olympics is a business--plain and simple. Try telling that to the athletes who spend much of their youth and teen years striving to be the best they can be. Suggesting athletes are like "trained monkeys" is a just plain ignorant. I do agree, however, that the Olympics have absolutely nothing to do at all with a nation being a "world power". I absolutely, positively stand by my statement that the Olympics is a business. Period. End of story. To not think so is very, very, naive. The "trained monkeys" comment was heavy-handed, for sure. The analogy of rating world powers based on their athletes' prowess being like comparing prowess of the respective countries' trained monkeys still holds water, though. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #21 November 28, 2005 Since the very birth of trade, China has been the richest and biggest economy in the world. Historically speaking the last 150 years has been but a tiny blip on their timeline (largely due to us Brits fucking up their country by pushing copious amounts of drugs on them and sending in the battleships if they tried to ban them). China will go back to occupying the position it always has done in the world. The West had better get used to the fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
udder 0 #22 November 28, 2005 whoa.....sorry everyone. replied to the post instead of PM. Whoops. Couldnt even be shat PM'ing it now...lol"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #23 November 28, 2005 I think he meant that hosting the olympics is a business, as opposed to partaking in them. Hosting the olympics is a business, no two ways about it.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #24 November 28, 2005 This is situation that I am following closely. The relationship between China and the U.S. is very interesting especially as it is developing militarily, economically, but mostly I enjoy gaining insight into people's perceptions. China and the Chinese knows that America has been the leader for a long time, and they are catching up - fast. Americans are just now waking up - at least the ones that read the news. I think Bush going to China is an excellent way for him to raise awareness in our own country. Especially with some goofy pictures! If you are interested in this, then go pick up the book - China Inc. - Ted Newman --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #25 November 28, 2005 QuoteChina is already by far the most populated, Really? I thought India had them beaten on that front since the late 90's. Is your info up to date? The US spends way, way more money on defense than any other nation on earth. China may or may not rise. You may find this site interesting. http://www.ibef.org/india/indiachina.aspx tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
