TheAnvil 0 #1 November 9, 2005 clicky Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 November 9, 2005 which parts are ridiculous: 1 - the horrible prices 2 - the high profits 3 - Senators saying someone else owes the country an explanation 4 - special windfall taxes? 5 - the oath thing 6 - the no oath thing there's so much in here that's ridiculous, it's hard to choose - guess putting senators and oil executives in the same room with self righteous intents on both sides makes for GOOD comedy ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #3 November 9, 2005 Posturing for the constituency! I believe most if not all of the senate benefit from the largess of energy companies And since we do have some semblance of a free market economy,how much control/influence can any of these companies have on the wellhead price of oil or gas?Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #4 November 9, 2005 Awesome! About time someone reaffirmed our God-given right to cheap gas. "Windfall profits tax"...hahaha, that'll show 'em. Politics *sigh*. -----------------------------------Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaryshari 0 #5 November 9, 2005 ConocoPhillips earned $3.8 billion in the third quarter, an 89 percent increase over a year earlier. But he said that represents only a 7.7 percent profit margin for every dollar of sales. "We do not consider that a windfall," Bullsh*t is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #6 November 9, 2005 What, exactly is ridiculous about it? The fact that the Senate is pissed or that it appears that the oil companies gouged?Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #7 November 9, 2005 The idea of windfall profit taxes against innocent successful companies is ridiculous. However, I believe the oil companies are guilty of price fixing and gouging. They should be investigated for that. But short of any official finding of that kind, adding special taxes on to them is wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #8 November 9, 2005 Just for clarification, is there any specific profit margin that denotes "price gouging" or is it more of a rough guess? -----------------------------Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #9 November 9, 2005 QuoteJust for clarification, is there any specific profit margin that denotes "price gouging" or is it more of a rough guess? ----------------------------- Price gouging is when you raise prices during an emergency and use that emergency as justification for the raised prices when their cost of doing business didn't really increase by an equal amount. In other words, increasing your profit margin at all during a disaster by raising prices is gouging, and illegal, and despicable, and evil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #10 November 9, 2005 I agree that it is morally not very nice, but economically it makes sense. In an emergency, the demand for a product (gas) goes up. If prices are kept artificially low because business are afraid of "price gouging", then the supply-demand curve gets all thrown off and there is a shortage of gas because people are buying more gas than they otherwise would had the prices been allowed to adjust. So in the end, people who need gas have to do without instead of just having to pay more. Like I said, it may not be very nice, but it seems practical. -Edited for clarification-Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #11 November 9, 2005 During a declared emergency it is illegal. And there's nothing practical about it. It's profiteering off the suffering of others, pure and simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #12 November 9, 2005 Practical in the sense that there is not such a quick shortage of gas. Even here in College Station, TX, which barely received any rain during the hurricanes, people gobbled up the gas before the prices had time to adjust at all. I didn't buy any at first because I figured everyone was just panicking and I didn't want to add to it, but after a day or two I didn't buy any gas because there was none to be found. Had there truly been an emergency here, I would have taken a $4/gal tank of gas (which fewer people would have been willing to pay for than if the price were at an artificially lower amount) over none at all any day. I don't feel that I have any right to "cheap" gas. If a company wants to engage in "profiteering off the suffering of others", they can be dealt with after the emergency by consumers who remember that company's behavior during the crisis and who punish them by going elsewhere for their fuel. It is a moot point I'm making, since it's illegal anyway. Get enough people educated in economics by the government and you can villify anything you want.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #13 November 9, 2005 >It's profiteering off the suffering of others . . . The recent gas shortage (and resultant price increase) was a result of profiteering off the stupidity and greed of others. And I see nothing at all wrong with that. Indeed, it's an american tradition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #14 November 9, 2005 The whole thing is a show. Corporations pay no taxes. Those costs are always passed on to consumers. So, the windfall taxes will increase prices at the pump too. Besides, we tried that in the 70s and it didn't work then either. Meanwhile, I would like to commend the commitee chairman for maintaining order during lame attempts to put the company chairmen under oath. These companies have made a lot of money. But their profit margins are not as wide as everyone thinks. Exxon's 3Q revenue was about $100B, but only $9.9B was profit. That's not huge. Retail stores do better percentage wise.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 November 9, 2005 QuoteThe whole thing is a show. Corporations pay no taxes. Those costs are always passed on to consumers. So, the windfall taxes will increase prices at the pump too. Bingo! And if you take away those profits, that's less money they have to re-invest in more wells and refineries, so the supply will not grow. And prices will just be driven up even higher. Then Congress will once again claim that the oil companies are making exorbitant profits. Go back to the word "Bingo" and repeat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #16 November 9, 2005 QuoteBingo! And if you take away those profits, that's less money they have to re-invest in more wells and refineries, You might want to do a little research on the subject. The oil companies aren't spending any money. They are hoarding cash. Part of the reason for the hearing is the fact that they have record profits (that's PROFIT, not revenue), record cash reserves, and are doing virtually ZERO investing in refineries or alternate fuel sources. I love how it's ok for us to base foreign policy on our need for oil and claim that it's vital for the defense of our way of life, but you want to do a little domestic regulation and taht's wrong. Oh...and before you reply with your usual "I said nothing of the kind", just because I replied to your post doesn't mean my entire post is directed at you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #17 November 9, 2005 Private companies and individuals placing/using their money where they see fit? Oh the horror. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #18 November 9, 2005 QuotePrivate companies and individuals placing/using their money where they see fit? Oh the horror. As a general principle I agree with you. But when companies collude to fix prices and gouge during a state of emergency, that's illegal, and a completely different story. Also, there's a reason we have an energy commission. Because it is a vital part of our infrastructure. Railroads and airlines face the same kind of scrutiny, and they should. Promote the general welfare and all that. Personally, I spend about $8/month on gas and own a bunch of oil company stock. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize when something is bad for the country and morally wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #19 November 9, 2005 ***Private companies and individuals placing/using their money where they see fit? Oh the horror. That sounds all too much like CapitalismMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #20 November 9, 2005 So let me get your positions straight. You guys don't see anything wrong with companies inflating prices during a state of emergency and exploiting those suffering through the catastophe? If that's your position, I guess we have nothing else to disgust....whoops...freudian slip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #21 November 9, 2005 Quotewhen companies collude to fix prices and gouge during a state of emergency, that's illegal, and a completely different story. You have proof the oil companies did this? You should call your Senator immediately and turn over this vital information. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #22 November 9, 2005 QuoteQuotewhen companies collude to fix prices and gouge during a state of emergency, that's illegal, and a completely different story. You have proof the oil companies did this? You should call your Senator immediately and turn over this vital information. No...that's what they should be investigating instead of whitewashing and talking about a windfall tax.....read my post at the beginning of the thread. But when I said that would be wrong for them to do IF THEY DID IT, you guys jumped all over me defending that type of behavior as capitalism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 November 9, 2005 QuoteNo...that's what they should be investigating instead of whitewashing and talking about a windfall tax.....read my post at the beginning of the thread. But when I said that would be wrong for them to do IF THEY DID IT, you guys jumped all over me defending that type of behavior as capitalism. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1918594#1918594 I'm on AfterBirth's side on this one. It was a clean post. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #24 November 9, 2005 That's Mr. Afterbirth to you, pal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #25 November 9, 2005 so, what exactly do you think is ridiculous in this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
