Lewis Libby Indictment

[sfc 0]

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I remember that when Hillary was questioned about Whitewater and the Rose Law Firm's billing records, she got a horrible case of "I can't recall." Libby could have done the same thing. Had he, I doubt he would have been indicted.

So are you trying to say that lying is somehow better, he could have taken the 5th.
You can't compare some dodgy land deal or a blow job with espionage. They are orders of magnitude apart.

He wasn't indicted for espionage. He was indicted because in the many interviews he was subjected to over a 2 year period of time, some of his answers were inconsistent. Don't make this out to be more than it is.

I didn't say he way, he was indicted for lying under oath in an espionage investigation. I was pointing out that your comparison of espionage to a dodgy land deal or a blow job if absurd, you are trying to excuse Libby's behavior by saying the other side did it first, typical partisan BS.

[Amazon 7]

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Even Colin Powell is stained by the stench of the lies.. but at least he admits to it.

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Powell admitted to lying? When did this happen?

Shhesh its been ALL over the news in LOTS of places.
Come on Max... its that pesky reading problem again.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Politics/story?id=1105979&page=1

It was Powell who told the United Nations and the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and posed an imminent threat. He told Walters that he feels "terrible" about the claims he made in that now-infamous address — assertions that later proved to be false.

When asked if he feels it has tarnished his reputation, he said, "Of course it will. It's a blot. I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world, and [it] will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now."

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Even Colin Powell is stained by the stench of the lies.. but at least he admits to it.

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Powell admitted to lying? When did this happen?

Shhesh its been ALL over the news in LOTS of places.
Come on Max... its that pesky reading problem again.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Politics/story?id=1105979&page=1

It was Powell who told the United Nations and the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and posed an imminent threat. He told Walters that he feels "terrible" about the claims he made in that now-infamous address — assertions that later proved to be false.

When asked if he feels it has tarnished his reputation, he said, "Of course it will. It's a blot. I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world, and [it] will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now."

From the same article:

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He doesn't blame former CIA Director George Tenet for the misleading information he says he pored over for days before delivering his speech; he faults the intelligence system.

"George Tenet did not sit there for five days with me misleading me. He believed what he was giving to me was accurate. … The intelligence system did not work well," he said.

Nonetheless, Powell said, some lower-level personnel in the intelligence community failed him and the country. "There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at that time that some of these sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up. That devastated me," he said.

He admitted the intelligence was false. He did not admit to lying. I personally do not believe he lied. I think he was misled, like many others, and likely manipulated. He honestly believed in the system, and the system failed him, and millions of others.

Here is an interesting related article from Factcheck.org.

[Gravitymaster 0]

What you fail to understand is that there is no indication a crime was even commited.

Lets say an aquaintence of yours tell the police you murdered someone. The police pick you up for questioning several times and each time, they drill you about where you were on a 20 different days, who you spoke to, where you went, what you did. In doing this, they write down every thing you say. Somewhere along the way, you don't remember everything too clearly and you make a few mistakes in the timeline. The police charge you with obstructing their investigation. Then the person you were supposed to have killed shows up healthy.

Get it now? There isn't any evidence a crime has been commited, because it hasn't even been proven she was covert. You might want to wait until the investigation finds out if there was even a crime before you start talking about espionage.

[TheAnvil 0]

None. Prove she was covert. Hasn't been done yet - or do you know something the rest of us don't?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,434]

>Prove she was covert.

Here we go. "It wasn't really a crime because you can't PROVE that revealing the name of a CIA operative to our enemies hurt us!" You would rip a democrat apart who dissembled like that.

But in any case it doesn't matter. Read the indictment; it does not go into whether she was covert or not. It describes Libby's obstruction of justice and perjury, not his outing of an agent. That's what he will be prosecuted for. As the old republican saying goes, "what part of 'he lied under oath' don't you understand?"

[TheAnvil 0]

Not my argument at all. My point is that nobody has stated unequivocally that Ms. Plame was a covert employee. If she was an OVERT employee, in contrast, then revealing her connection was in now way criminal.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[okalb 79]

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Not my argument at all. My point is that nobody has stated unequivocally that Ms. Plame was a covert employee. If she was an OVERT employee, in contrast, then revealing her connection was in now way criminal.

Correct, it wasn't criminal, but lying under oath about the disclosure was illelgal . It doesn't matter whether the disclosure was legal or not.

We can't have a double standard here. Duriing an investigathion into Whitewater Clinton lied under oath about something unrelated to the investigation and was crucified for it. How would this be any different. The actual subject that he lied about wasn't illegal either. At least I hope not

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[TheAnvil 0]

We shall see if it happened or not. If guilty, I hope he's punished as harshly as El Jefe Clintonista was.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TypicalFish 0]

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At least I hope not

Good Lord, me, too...

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[billvon 2,434]

>If she was an OVERT employee, in contrast, then revealing her
>connection was in now way criminal.

Again, it doesn't matter. He is not being prosecuted for outing her (although that may come later.) He is being prosecuted for lying under oath and obstructing an investigation.

[TheAnvil 0]

He is not being prosecuted for 'outing' a covert agent, 'tis true, he's being prosecuted for perjury and obstruction of justice. We'll see if he's convicted.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,434]

> He is not being prosecuted for 'outing' a covert agent . . .

Correct. That issue is still unresolved. Court documents list Rove and Libby as the source of the leak; let's hope the problem gets fixed before some other part of our intelligence community is burned.

[rushmc 18]

Come on billvon.........

You must get the DNC fax distribution for the weeks talking points

CIA get burned??? BBBBBWWWHHHHAAAAAAAA

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,434]

>CIA get burned?

Right! Who cares if CIA agents are outed, as long as it's done by a republican? She should get over it. Hell, she was probably asking for it.

[rushmc 18]

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>CIA get burned?

Right! Who cares if CIA agents are outed, as long as it's done by a republican? She should get over it. Hell, she was probably asking for it.

Nobody was outed! She worked in an office in the states.......

If she was outed, and the leak came from the president himself then he should go to jail. Shheeshh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TheAnvil 0]

You have no evidence any part has been burned - with respect to this incident at any rate. I hope no part is ever burned again by anyone regardless of party.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

Vinny Vinny Vinny.. there you go again....Far too much braeing into the wind...

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801172.html

Plame, the daughter of an Air Force colonel and an elementary school teacher, was recruited by the CIA at 22, shortly after graduation from Pennsylvania State University. She was in the 1985-86 class of CIA officers trained at "The Farm" near Williamsburg, where the curriculum included learning to drive under fire, blowing up cars and handling an AK-47.

Her career postings are classified, but she was one of the elite clandestine spies -- an officer with nonofficial cover who works overseas in business or other jobs and has no diplomatic protection if detected or arrested.

So lets see went to work as an operative in 1986.

Got married to Wilson in 1998...after 12 years of being an operative. Her new position as an Ambassadors wife gave her interesting opportunities to meet with very interesting people in very interesting places.

Jump forward to 2003 outed by White House thugs interested in political payback rather than the security of our nation..... disgusting.

[sfc 0]

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What you fail to understand is that there is no indication a crime was even commited.

My issue with you is that you had to drag clinton into this thread, why did you do that, it is not relevent to this and was just one of your attempt to cloud the issue.

Is there was no crime committed why is there an investigation, do you really think that all this time and money would be wasted? Do you really think the investigation team have not established whether she was covert or not, and why would they make this information, which is still classified, available to the general public.
It is just another attempt to divert attention. Several folks are using it, you have to wonder if you are all reading the same web site or listening to the same talk radio.

[Amazon 7]

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It is just another attempt to divert attention. Several folks are using it, you have to wonder if you are all reading the same web site or listening to the same talk radio.

DUH

[billvon 2,434]

>You have no evidence any part has been burned . . . .

I suggest you do a "preemtive retraction;" the line that no one outed Valerie Plame, or that she was not an undercover CIA agent, is going to get zero traction, and bringing up technicalities (i.e. "she wasn't about to be shot by anyone so it's not really outing her") isn't going to work for any conservative. Try the Rush Limbaugh approach - Fitzgerald said "we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly, intentionally, outed a covert agent. We have not charged that." Will work well until the next indictment.

[b1jercat 0]

Perhaps Vinnie didn't see 60 minutes last night.

blues

Jerry

[TheAnvil 0]

Not a chance. When I've read something or heard something of the sort myself, then I'll do so. To date, I've yet to read or hear anything, but pehaps some of the links I'm seeing here will show me otherwise.

And no, I did not see 60 Minutes last night, I was grilling JACKASSburgers and brats at a surprise shin-dig I threw for a friend who is going to Afghanistan tomorrow. Now I'm going to his house to consume all of his beer and liquor and claim his perishable food. When I return, if I've time, I'll read up on the links here and elsewhere and then possibly retract, if I feel it warranted. 'till then, you'll have to wait. But, if she was a covert agent at the time she was 'outed', then I haven't read it to date.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[b1jercat 0]

Now I'm going to his house to consume all of his beer and liquor and claim his perishable food.

Now your talking! It doesn't really matter that a womens liveyhood was destoryed, or that the lowest flunkey will take the fall.

I want to party with you.

blues

jerry

[Gravitymaster 0]

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What you fail to understand is that there is no indication a crime was even commited.

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My issue with you is that you had to drag clinton into this thread, why did you do that, it is not relevent to this and was just one of your attempt to cloud the issue.

Nope. I believe perjury is perjury. Clinton was guilty of it. It's yet to be seen if Libby is. Yes I do think there would be an investigation

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Is there was no crime committed why is there an investigation, do you really think that all this time and money would be wasted? Do you really think the investigation team have not established whether she was covert or not,

There is an investigation to see if a crime was commited. And yes, I do think they would be spending all this money if a crime hadn't been commited. This is Washington DC and politicians on both side will go to no end and spare no expense to play "political gotcha." No, I don't think they have established if a crime was commited. If they had, don't you think they would have brought more indictments at this time?

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and why would they make this information, which is still classified, available to the general public.

What classified information have they made public?

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It is just another attempt to divert attention. Several folks are using it, you have to wonder if you are all reading the same web site or listening to the same talk radio.

Actually, it's an attempt to present the other side of an issue. You do believe in learning other points of view, don't you? If not, you can just hang out at Moveon.org and let them pollute your mind.


So in summary, you think it's all over, Libby is guilty because they wouldn't be spending all this money unless he was guilty, right?

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