Plame rumors

[billvon 2,435]

In July of 2003, Robert Novak published the identity of an undercover US agent, an identity that had been leaked to him by an administration official. This both outed her and risked burning her contacts, contacts important to US intelligence operations. It looked as if the administration was trying to "get even" with her husband by putting her at risk; her husband had publically disputed Bush's incorrect claims about Niger uranium. In September of the same year, Bush pledged to get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible. When asked about possible leaks from his administration, he replied that he "expects them (the people in his administration) to adhere to the highest standards of conduct."

Oddly enough, it took two years to make any progress in the case. It is fortunate that it took so long, since the investigation is now closing in on the White House as the source of the leak, and that surely wouldn't have looked good during the last election. Rumor has it that the investigation is now focusing on Dick Cheney's office. Rumors are, of course, just that, but it's interesting how seriously republicans are taking them. From US News and World Report:

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Sparked by today's Washington Post story that suggests Vice President Cheney's office is involved in the Plame-CIA spy link investigation, government officials and advisers passed around rumors that the vice president might step aside and that President Bush would elevate Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

"It's certainly an interesting but I still think highly doubtful scenario," said a Bush insider. "And if that should happen," added the official, "there will undoubtedly be those who believe the whole thing was orchestrated – another brilliant Machiavellian move by the VP."

Said another Bush associate of the rumor, "Yes. This is not good." The rumor spread so fast that some Republicans by late morning were already drawing up reasons why Rice couldn't get the job or run for president in 2008.
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[Muenkel 0]

Should we wait till the rumors are substantiated, or run with our replies now?

_________________________________________
Chris

[wmw999 2,149]

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Should we wait till the rumors are substantiated, or run with our replies now?

He starts first gets more shots

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[greybeard 0]

Does this remind anybody of a silly, slightly, bungeled burgalary attempt in a famous hotel called The Watergate. This bungeled burgalary became a non-issue when greater schemes and treacheries were exsposed.

???????????????????????????????????????????

[druvaughn 0]

It would certainly be important to recognize that the Dems are starting 2008 pitches already ( as if Hillary's senate bid wasn't just that anyway ). The sitting Pres is out and his VP stands little chance, regardless of who the dems nominate.

That being covered ( albeit briefly ), could this actually be a way to get the first woman VP seated and possibly aid her possible Presidency run in 2008.

The highest ranking Senate Rep. just recused (sp?) himself for fraud -- thanks Delay.

Just some fuel for the specualtive fire.

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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[billvon 2,435]

>could this actually be a way to get the first woman VP seated and
>possibly aid her possible Presidency run in 2008.

Bravo! That is indeed an excellent rumor. I knew someone would one-up me once I posted the original . . .

[StreetScooby 5]

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He starts first gets more shots...

Wouldn't that depend upon distance AND caliber?

We are all engines of karma

[druvaughn 0]

If I briefly continued, lets look at other possibilities ( can you win if you keep firing ).

Is the US ready for a woman pres ( are we ready for a VP ). Little could be worse than Cheney, who as previously mentioned, stnads no chance of being elected (way too many skeletons). Shall we add on that the Republican Congress may not hold in the coming year's midterms if the country continues on the current path. This certainly opens the door for the dems to jump back in.

The Rep Party is going to need an ace up its sleeve, and who wins the woman's race, Condi or Hil? Sadly, Hillary takes this one on paper.

The preverbial ACE -- the man who saved NYC in 2001. Oh Yes. You'll note he popped up during the last election for some speaking time on the winning side of the 2004 election. Rudy.

The logical thought here, keep him in the wings, giving the dems less time to rebutt. Imagine the runoff, Hillary vs. Rudy.

Would Condi then be Rudy's VP as well, she would already be established?

Love the speculation!!!

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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[billvon 2,435]

>Imagine the runoff, Hillary vs. Rudy.

I doubt that will happen. If Rice does end up being run up as a VP successor, then the republicans would be crucified if they don't run her on the presidential ticket. I will leave it to your imagination the sort of headlines the democrats would make of that decision.

[TheAnvil 0]

Hilary takes that one on paper? I think not dude. Dr. Rice would destroy her.

President Rice. Nice ring to it.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,435]

>Does this remind anybody of a silly, slightly, bungeled
>burgalary attempt in a famous hotel called The Watergate.

No! Come on, now. That was a hotel, and had nothing to do with the CIA.

From the NY Daily News:

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Bush whacked Rove on CIA leak

BY THOMAS M. DeFRANK

WASHINGTON - An angry President Bush rebuked chief political guru Karl Rove two years ago for his role in the Valerie Plame affair, sources told the Daily News. "He made his displeasure known to Karl," a presidential counselor told The News. "He made his life miserable about this."

Bush has nevertheless remained doggedly loyal to Rove, who friends and even political adversaries acknowledge is the architect of the President's rise from baseball owner to leader of the free world.

As special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald nears a decision, perhaps as early as today, on whether to issue indictments in his two-year probe, Bush has already circled the wagons around Rove, whose departure would be a grievous blow to an already shell-shocked White House staff and a President in deep political trouble.
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Would surely be interesting if Bush knew about this back then and covered it up.

[IanHarrop 37]

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Is the US ready for a woman pres

I'm surprised that the conspiracy conscious right wingershaven't pointed out that the left controlled media, especially the entertainment segment, is preparing the USA for a female president by brain washing the population with their airing of the television show Commander in Chief.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[billvon 2,435]

>is preparing the USA for a female president by brain washing the
> population with their airing of the television show Commander in
> Chief.

You must have missed this recent post:

"I recently saw a tv ad for a new tv show (CBS?) called Commander in Chief where Geena Davis is the Vice President and somehow will assume the Presidency.

Has anyone else seen this ad and thinks it's a thinly veiled attempt to get the U.S. tv-loving population to accept a female President?

How about the name... Commander in Chief? Anyone else find it ironic they chose a military-esque name for the show? "

Those Hollywood types will stop at nothing! Heck, they probably MADE Cheney leak some info so they could make this show and fulfill their gay female agenda.

Thread:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1780967;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC

[IanHarrop 37]

Crap... you're right I missed it !

Oh well... I'm Canadian what do you expect.
We had our kick at the cat with a female PM, for a short period of time, this allows us to feel superior even if we don't deserve too

A recent book quoted another past PM blaming her from their party's defeat in the election that followed her brief tenure. It was suggested that she had a boy friend who kept busy, when she should have been working on the campaign

If this much excitement can be had in Canadian politics with a female leader, just think how much fun the USA can have!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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President Rice. Nice ring to it

The Saudies and Chinese will never allow that to happen.

[TheAnvil 0]

They don't vote, though they do donate to Presidential libraries and to Presidential compaigns via buddhist temples.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[druvaughn 0]

This could open Pandora's Box:

In a country not ready to accept homosexual relationships and a woman's right to govern her own body (abortion), are we honestly thinking the next presedential election will showcase two women. If one party does so first, the other would be safe nominating Castro and having him be elected just because it isn't a woman.

Few things would please me more than to have a staunch liberal in the White House, I mean really, what do you care what we do with our bodies or our partners, but America is certianly no where near ready for this (niether am I, I like the elephant's economic agenda).

I'm curious to know why you thought Condi wins in the head to head match.

Never talk polotics in a bar...

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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[IanHarrop 37]

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I'm curious to know why you thought Condi wins in the head to head match.

I think you meant to respond to a different posting.... I have no opinion on Condi and have made no such remarks.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[druvaughn 0]

My apologies Ian --

I was referring to TheAnvil's endorsement of Condi --

Still learning the ins and outs of the whole posting system

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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[TheAnvil 0]

A number of reasons, actually.

1) Dr. Rice would destroy Hitlery in a debate, I have no doubt.
2) The Dems have spent the past two or three of decades trying to convince African Americans that Republicans are a bunch of racists. While many conservatives - like myself - simply think 'lying liberal coward' everytime we hear that spoken or insinuated, one need only see the support and attention given to bigots like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Malik Shebazz, and Mr. Farrakhan to know that unfortunately, this lie the Dems have been preaching has taken root with many members of that demographic. Very, very sad.

Condi, because of her race - which should be a non-sequitur but isn't, as a candidate would present something of a quandry for the left. They wouldn't be able to use their 'Republicans hate blacks' lie as effectively with the segment of voters that would normally rally to their cause for that reason. The voters in this demographic normally have an exceptionally good turnout at the polls and the left relies on this support quite a bit - without it, they are in the hurt locker for votes.
3) Along the same lines, the left has also relied upon the 'Republican hate women and want them pregnant in the kitchen' sort of lies to garner support from feminazis. Here again, Condi, because she's a woman, which again shouldn't matter, would make that lie a little less effective for the lefties.
4) Dr. Rice grew up extremely poor in the South. The 'Party of the Rich' and 'Republicans don't care about the poor' lies wouldn't be as effective against Dr. Rice as they were against GWB.
5) The mere fact that Hillary is married to Bill Clinton, formerly known as El Jefe Clintonista, would get out the conservative vote in droves.

There are many others, but those few alone are enough to convice me, personally. I could be wrong, but in this case, I don't think so. In order to combat Dr. Rice's candidacy they would have to argue on issues, and they haven't been pushing any issue effectively other than 'say no to anything Bush does or says' for the past few years.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,435]

Vinnie, as you are the first person to bring race into this, I can't take your "evil democrats" speech very seriously. I am sure race will be a big issue, but it will be a hammer that the right uses to bludgeon the left with, much as you have done above (if it comes to that, which I doubt it will.)

[druvaughn 0]

very well put ( especially the debate ) -- but...

You seem to be relying heavily on the liberal push in media to swing the views and issues away from Condi -- I would have to rebut with -- we are talking about two women. The woman's movement jumps to the polls, but to which side?

The left love the poor (their failing attribute) and most of their economic agenda, domestically and internationally follows this trend, protect and elevate (through social programs) the less fortunate in this country. Great!!! My hard earned dollar going south.

That being said, how many more laws are the conservatives going to put into affect to govern our bedroom behavior before we put an end to it. What we really don't need is a constitutional amendment telling us what marriage is...this is very conservative. Mierrs nomination to the bench should go to satisfy that the conservative party is going to legislate around Roe v Wade. If the womens voting block is to one side or the other, the dems take it unless Condi can show strong pro-life and liberal social agenda.

As for race -- it should be a non-issue, and you are correct it will be, but no one needs address it publicly. The polls will, albeit unfortunately, that the country is very segregated. Fact of Life. Born and raised in the NE, with family in the SE, I can safely say the US isn't ready for all this at once. Female Pres OK, but even with a strong ( read Colin Powell ) minority candidate, it is going to be a very tough sell to the conservatives ( read Bible Thumpers ). Also, in the political arena, in public the Republicans can push Condi and still "hate blacks" as long as they hold the power (think kissing baby while stealing candi). And remember social agenda, are the voters going to rely on the side of race, or are they going to turn out for the blue party who will continue to fund welfare?

Your final argument, might be your best, I really don't think that American voters want to visual Bill getting freaky on White House furniture AGAIN.

Good Volley...

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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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They don't vote, though they do donate to Presidential libraries and to Presidential compaigns via buddhist temples.

true, but since they are the ones keeping your economy afloat, they wield far more power than you may think....

[TheAnvil 0]

Hmm...I didn't think that was an 'Evil Democrats' tirade...sorry you took it that way. I'm still doubting if Dr. Rice will run - though I truly hope that she does. She would be the most educated President ever and quite possibly the most intelligent. I think Nixon, Eisenhower, and Carter had the three highest IQ's - perhaps Bill Clinton belongs there as well, but that's just a guess. I suspect Dr. Rice's would be up there too. I digress.

Deny it all you like, Bill, my comments about the Dem's use of race are right on the money. I bring it up because it's one of the left's bigger political weapons - that is slowly but surely becoming impotent. The same with their take on women's issues. They've shown it time and time again. I really do think as a party they've become over-reliant on those lies - and lies they are - to get out the votes from a demographic highly motivated to make it to the polls. This strategy - while good for a couple of decades - has been falling apart for a while because more and more African Americans, Hispanics, and other minorities and women are succeeding in this country - and many of these successful minorities don't have a lot of use for affirmative action or the 'I'm failing because I'm black/hispanic/Indian/mestizo/woman/whatever' cop-out attitude. I feel Dr. Rice's candidacy would really cut into the potential of such lies to get out the vote for the left.

Another thing that has harmed the left is their almost monolithic stance on controversial issues. You hear about Republican defections all the time on myriad issues. How many pro-life democrats are there? Pro school vouchers? Pro Bush tax cut? (Zell Miller is obvious). Not many in comparison with their Republican fence-sitters.

Perhaps most troubling for the left - and this is a quote from Bubba Clinton and I can't recall where - the Republican Party has become the party of ideas. Social security, medicare, and myriad other gov't solutions were all the ideas of Democrats in decades past. Other than taxing the hell out of the electorate, the left really hasn't presented many new ideas as of late. School vouchers, partial privatization of SS, the Fair Tax - most if not all of the new and innovative ideas for government are coming out of the right these days - the feasible ones at any rate. This, most of all, spells trouble for the left IMHO.

Add to the above the fact that they have pushed forth virtually nothing but 'oppose Bush on everything' as a party for the past several years, and I see a party in deep trouble.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

I should thing a media swing in the liberal direction would be taken for granted by anyone following politics - FOX being the fair and balanced exception.

The left only love the poor when it suits them. They profess a love for the poor, whilst supporting race based Affirmative Action, which gives preference to the sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers over the sons and daughters of Applachian farmers. Must maintain the black vote, don't you see. Sorry poor folks! Look at the racial breakdown of impoverished children in this country to see the lucridity of this. Disgusting.

The left professes an undying devotion towards helping the poor, yet keeps poor children trapped in failing government schools by opposing school vouchers at every turn. Must keep the $$ from the teacher's unions flowing in, don't you see! Sorry inner city kids! This will plague the left in a potential Condi Rice-Hillary match. Without the race card to play, how will the left look like anything other than obediant servants of the teacher's unions on the voucher issue?

The inane proposal to ban gay marriage fizzled on both sides of the political aisle - I don't think it significant enough an issue to swing the race either way.

With regards to a minority candidate being a tough sell to conservatives, read my post. CONSERVATIVES DO NOT HATE MINORITIES. Especially the 'Bible thumpers'. That argument holds no water. Nada. Zilcho.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!