The World's Most Violent Countries

[JohnRich 4]

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Apparently the Cheif Counstable questions the results because they're based on old data and phone calls

Well, we've got one member here who swears by those phone surveys. He loves to tell me that crime in England is falling according to those surveys, even though police statistics of actual crimes show that crime is rising. And the surveys show a crime rate that is 2.5 times higher than the police statistics.

[SkyDekker 1,134]

John, define assault.

Then, is there any other form of violence?

How can you possibly get to that conclusion?

[JohnRich 4]

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John, define assault. Then, is there any other form of violence? How can you possibly get to that conclusion?

I provided a link to the study. If you have some point you want to make, do your own homework, and then be out with it.

[mikkey 0]

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John, define assault. Then, is there any other form of violence? How can you possibly get to that conclusion?

I provided a link to the study. If you have some point you want to make, do your own homework, and then be out with it.

You have an obsession with the UK and try constantly to link this with your domestic gun debate in the US. Really can not understand why you do that. You have also several times been exposed of dodgy stats and claims regarding crime and violence in the UK and elsewhere.

Maybe you should try to get out of the US and spend some time in the UK or Australia and see for you own eyes.

In regard to this “study” – we have seen a lot of crap with these in the past. From my own experience staying in the UK a lot – I can only say that I always found it relatively save – e.g. more save in the inner city of London then in inner urban areas of the US – but always was careful in regard to Pubs and Clubs. Has to do with that some Brits like to drink quite heavily and there is a tendency for more “brawls” then I have seen in other places – but this is a completely subjective view. One thing that is important to remember is that there is a big difference between being punched by a drunken Brit and being shot.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Well, we've got one member here who swears by those phone surveys. He loves to tell me that crime in England is falling according to those surveys, even though police statistics of actual crimes show that crime is rising. And the surveys show a crime rate that is 2.5 times higher than the police statistics.

I've explained it to you many times John; this really does get quite tiresome.

There's a nice big friendly paragraph at the start of the police stats which says they cannot be relied upon to show trends because of changes in reporting standards and that instead you should look to the BCS, which also carries a nice big friendly paragraph about how they are the only reliable source for information on crime trends in the UK.

It's not my value judgment - it's that of the people who create and use the statistics.

(btw the survey you cite in this thread is also prefaced by an almost identical paragraph).

[mnealtx 0]

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John, define assault. Then, is there any other form of violence? How can you possibly get to that conclusion?

I provided a link to the study. If you have some point you want to make, do your own homework, and then be out with it.

You have an obsession with the UK and try constantly to link this with your domestic gun debate in the US. Really can not understand why you do that. You have also several times been exposed of dodgy stats and claims regarding crime and violence in the UK and elsewhere.

Maybe you should try to get out of the US and spend some time in the UK or Australia and see for you own eyes.

In regard to this “study” – we have seen a lot of crap with these in the past. From my own experience staying in the UK a lot – I can only say that I always found it relatively save – e.g. more save in the inner city of London then in inner urban areas of the US – but always was careful in regard to Pubs and Clubs. Has to do with that some Brits like to drink quite heavily and there is a tendency for more “brawls” then I have seen in other places – but this is a completely subjective view. One thing that is important to remember is that there is a big difference between being punched by a drunken Brit and being shot.

You tell us to disregard information from news sources, then turn around and give the same news sources credence for information about the United States:

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...a big difference between being punched by a drunk Brit and being shot.

Please provide where you got the information that you are so likely to be shot in a drunken bar brawl.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,635]

The only reliable data for comparison between countries are homicides. All other violent crimes are subject to differing definitions and different levels of reporting and investigation. Homicides are similarly defined in all jurisdictions and rarely go unreported.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[crozby 0]

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The only reliable data for comparison between countries are homicides. All other violent crimes are subject to differing definitions and different levels of reporting and investigation. Homicides are similarly defined in all jurisdictions and rarely go unreported.

The fact that your earlier post with the stats has been so studiously ignored speaks volumes...

[kelpdiver 2]

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The only reliable data for comparison between countries are homicides. All other violent crimes are subject to differing definitions and different levels of reporting and investigation. Homicides are similarly defined in all jurisdictions and rarely go unreported.

snort. Violent crime can be categorized.

BTW, homicides don't have a consistent definition either. Do cops killing hood count? Do self defense killings count? What about DUI related killings?

[kallend 1,635]

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The only reliable data for comparison between countries are homicides. All other violent crimes are subject to differing definitions and different levels of reporting and investigation. Homicides are similarly defined in all jurisdictions and rarely go unreported.

snort. Violent crime can be categorized.

BTW, homicides don't have a consistent definition either. Do cops killing hood count? Do self defense killings count? What about DUI related killings?

I'm sure that accounts for the difference between Scotland and the USA.

"Since the definition of homicide is similar in most countries, absolute comparisons of rates are possible. For the period 1999 to 2001, the average rate (the number of homicides per 100,000 population) was 1.6 in the EU with the highest rates in Finland (2.9), Northern Ireland (2.7) and Scotland (2.2). For the other countries, the highest rates were found in Russia (22.1), Estonia (10.6), Lithuania (10.6) and the USA (5.6)."

Source: Barclay, Gordon & Cynthia Tavares, "International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2001," Home Office Bulletin 12/03 (London, England, UK: Home Office Research, Development, and Statistics Directorate, October 24, 2003), p. 3.


Interesting that USA has 3.5% more non-gun homicide rate than Scotland, and 1858% greater gun homicide rate than Scotland. Wonder if there's a reason?

Edited to add:

"A country's rate of homicide tends to be viewed by criminologists as a relatively unbiased measure of its level of violence. There are many reasons for this, including the fact that the serious nature of homicide makes it the least likely of all offence types to be affected by the "dark figure" of crime - that is, offences that go unreported and undetected. As a result, homicide is more likely than any other offence to be the subject of specific data collection efforts."
Australian Institute of Criminology www.aic.gov.au/

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm sure that accounts for the difference between Scotland and the USA.

strawman false - never made such an implication.

Just point out that laziness in your prior statement.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I'm sure that accounts for the difference between Scotland and the USA.

strawman false - never made such an implication.

Just point out that laziness in your prior statement.

I dunno. Seems like you said, "Homicides are defined different everywhere too" and kallend pointed out that government statistician think the opposite.

Am I missing something?

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[kallend 1,635]

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I'm sure that accounts for the difference between Scotland and the USA.

strawman false - never made such an implication.

Just point out that laziness in your prior statement.

Sorry, I omitted the that should have accompanied it.

From US Dept. of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics "Cross-National Studies in Crime and Justice", September 2004 - chapter concerning crime rates in the USA:
These results and those summarized
earlier regarding changes in police recording
practices (see section above
“Trends in percent recorded of
reported”) raise concerns about the
reliability of police statistics for measuring
trends in crime rates. Homicide is
an exception since there is no reason
to think that, over the study period,
changes occurred in reporting or
recording percentages for homicide.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[storm1977 0]

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John, define assault. Then, is there any other form of violence? How can you possibly get to that conclusion?

I provided a link to the study. If you have some point you want to make, do your own homework, and then be out with it.

You have an obsession with the UK and try constantly to link this with your domestic gun debate in the US. Really can not understand why you do that. You have also several times been exposed of dodgy stats and claims regarding crime and violence in the UK and elsewhere.

Maybe you should try to get out of the US and spend some time in the UK or Australia and see for you own eyes.

In regard to this “study” – we have seen a lot of crap with these in the past. From my own experience staying in the UK a lot – I can only say that I always found it relatively save – e.g. more save in the inner city of London then in inner urban areas of the US – but always was careful in regard to Pubs and Clubs. Has to do with that some Brits like to drink quite heavily and there is a tendency for more “brawls” then I have seen in other places – but this is a completely subjective view. One thing that is important to remember is that there is a big difference between being punched by a drunken Brit and being shot.

So, How many people in the USA were killed by guns last year????
Do you have have any idea?
I will bet you 5 jumps you guess high.

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty