What to do about Cindy Sheehan

[Mockingbird 0]

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You should work for the media... the article you linked does not say one word about cutting benifits. If fact it said there is an increase in funding, just not in the amount the VFW would like to see... I agree that it is not as large an increase as it should be, because vnetrans healthcare sucks and has for a long long time, but a $500MM increase is not a cut...

Good catch, jd. Libs always distort facts like this. So lame.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[mnealtx 0]

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>so pan's original statement that under our system of laws the President gets to decide is correct, at least for 60 days... then the congress has to pipe in (which in the case of Iraq and Afganistan they have through authorizing the use of force and contiuing appropriations)

The purpose of the War Powers act was to allow the "introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations." In other words, to allow the president to react decisively and quickly to sudden crises. I would argue that since hostilities were not ongoing, there was no sudden crisis, and there was no imminent threat to the US, it does not apply, and the old requirement of a vote by Congress applies instead. I'm sure most Bush supporters will disagree.

So where were the declarations of war for Bosnia, Kosovo, etc?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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If you'll recall, there was a vote by congress before we invaded...

If you'll recall, Congress authorized use of force as a last resort, certainly not before diplomatic avenues had been exhausted. Since there were no WMD, diplomatic avenues had indeed already been effective. A few more weeks and we would have known that without having to spend hundreds of billions of dollars, destroy a sovereign country and end thousands and thousands of lives.

Do you feel GWB and/or Congress knows better than you how to spend your money?

That's not how it works - Congress authorizes use of force, or doesn't authorize it... there's no "Well, you can do it, but only if..."

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Mockingbird 0]

My opinion is that this woman has serious emotional issues. And I don't mean bereavement.

She's demanding the most illogical things. For Pres. Bush to meet with her so he can explain why he had her son "murdered"? And yet she says she doesn't *really* want him to meet with her because then she'd have to stop the vigil.
For American troops to be brought home immediately? Oh sure, this makes a LOT of sense. Everyone in their right minds knows that this would be a disaster. Then our dead soldiers definitely will have died in vain. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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And I noticed that ABC refused to show a Cindy Sheehan spot before Bush's visit last week. Sounds like you need an alternative to the "damn biased liberal media" mantra.

Another liberal distortion of fact.

You make it sound like the central headquarters of ABC refused to show the ad, when *in fact,* it was only one local ABC station in Salt Lake City that wouldn't air it. The other stations in the city DID air it. And by the way, the ABC affiliate in Boise, Idaho, DID decide to air it.

It's only been aired in two cities.... where Pres. Bush was sceduled to be this week.

Incidentally, that awful "right-wing" FOX NEWS actually aired at least 30 seconds of the spot... so people all around the globe got to hear what wise old Ms. Sheehan had to say. I think that was pretty darn nice of them, don't you?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[kallend 1,679]

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on the SAME DAY his administration acted to cut benefits to veterans

You should work for the media... the article you linked does not say one word about cutting benifits. If fact it said there is an increase in funding, just not in the amount the VFW would like to see... I agree that it is not as large an increase as it should be, because vnetrans healthcare sucks and has for a long long time, but a $500MM increase is not a cut...

J

The President made these comments on the same day that his Administration announced it was cutting off access to its health care system for approximately 164,000 veterans. The Administration at the same time pushed a cut of $1.5 billion in military housing/medical facility funding, despite the fact that UPI reports “hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait - sometimes for months - to see doctors.”

– Wash Post, 1/17/03

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jdhill 0]

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The President made these comments on the same day that his Administration announced it was cutting off access to its health care system for approximately 164,000 veterans. The Administration at the same time pushed a cut of $1.5 billion in military housing/medical facility funding, despite the fact that UPI reports “hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait - sometimes for months - to see doctors.”

None of which was in the article you cited in your post...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[mnealtx 0]

You get used to it...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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>http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html
http://www.anncoulter.org/cgi-local/welcome.cgi
http://www.michellemalkin.com/

Liberals must be scared to death of these people. Since they are constantly referring to them as news rather than entertainment opinion discussion venues.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Channman 2]

Bill, its good to see you visit such web sites as rushlimbaugh, anncoulter, michellemalkin. They add a good prespective to the ongoing debate. Not to mention them two girls are sure purtty.

[SkyDekker 1,153]

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My issue with her is this: Of the 1800 families directly affected by the loss of their sons and daughters in Iraq and Afghanistan, the media has assured that 99% of the population knows the name of only one. That is a disgrace.

it is...I agree, but I would think it is a disgrace that 99% of your population isn't interested enough to go beyond the front page of the papers to find out the rest of the names.....

[panzwami 0]

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it is...I agree, but I would think it is a disgrace that 99% of your population isn't interested enough to go beyond the front page of the papers to find out the rest of the names.....

man I'm so glad to see that people are finally starting to pick up on that...

[masterblaster72 0]

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I don't have as much of a voice as I would like either because the undereducated electorate in my district cast their votes based on race, not for who woud better represent their interests...

Don't sweat that, repbulicans are taking care of that in TX by gerrymandering. They're addressing your concern and your voice is being heard.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[valcore 0]

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it is...I agree, but I would think it is a disgrace that 99% of your population isn't interested enough to go beyond the front page of the papers to find out the rest of the names.....

man I'm so glad to see that people are finally starting to pick up on that...

The Marine Corps Times Publishes the names of all those killed in Action and keeps a current death toll every week. It is very sad to be reading though and see someone you went to boot camp with or spend time with in school.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[billvon 2,471]

>You make it sound like the central headquarters of ABC refused to
> show the ad, when *in fact,* it was only one local ABC station in
>Salt Lake City that wouldn't air it.

The reply I expected. I say something, you claim I said something different, then you attack it.

> Incidentally, that awful "right-wing" FOX NEWS actually aired at least
> 30 seconds of the spot... so people all around the globe got to
> hear what wise old Ms. Sheehan had to say. I think that was pretty
> darn nice of them, don't you?

Fine with me. And again proving my point that it is the right-wingers who are spreading her message.

[billvon 2,471]

>Since they are constantly referring to them as news rather than
>entertainment opinion discussion venues.

They're certainly not news - but they are the ones primarily responsible for spreading Cindy Sheehan's message. Credit where credit is due and all that.

[rehmwa 2]

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>Since they are constantly referring to them as news rather than
>entertainment opinion discussion venues.

They're certainly not news - but they are the ones primarily responsible for spreading Cindy Sheehan's message. Credit where credit is due and all that.

You were the one referring to them as news media - frankly, I take talk shows (left and right) as I would any entertainment venue. With no more credibility than a howard stern or jerry seinfield or speakers corner. Fun to play, but nothing worth taking to heart of course.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[masterblaster72 0]

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My issue with her is this: Of the 1800 families directly affected by the loss of their sons and daughters in Iraq and Afghanistan, the media has assured that 99% of the population knows the name of only one. That is a disgrace.

I second the pat on your back. It really is a BIG disgrace. Yet, if there were a story on how a death affects a family, leaves children parentless, etc....it would only be an unpatriotic conspiracy of the liberal media, because such stories -- real life stories -- have potential to make one question the war.

There was an attempt at giving a face to the death toll back in April by ABC. A conservative lackey broadcast group, Sinclair, refused to air the show, by reasoning that it was motivated by a political agenda. Americans should take an interest regardless of whether it's fed to them on the tube or not. But realize it's in the interest of the backers of this war to hide the faces and the fact that this war is not being run successfully; it's in their interest to quash any point that can raise a question.

By the way, if McCain runs for president, he's getting my vote. Weren't it for the lies Karl Rove spewed about him being an illegitimate father of a black girl (he has an adopted daughter from Bangladesh) in the SC primaries back in 99/2000, he'd be our president already.

We need a commander in chief with an administration that honors and protects our troops, not someone who takes five week vacations with an administration of draft dodgers that run the war halfassed. That's the disgrace and it embarrasses me as an American.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[rehmwa 2]

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Yet, if there were a story on how a death affects a family, leaves children parentless, etc....it would only be an unpatriotic conspiracy of the liberal media, because such stories -- real life stories -- have potential to make one question the war.

Only for those that are completely naive to what war is. People die in war, they are part of families. This is sad. It's also expected in a war. If they 'now' question a war 'when they didn't previously', because a single soldier dies, then they started off with very naive expectations.

In other words, this shouldn't change anyone's opinion, for or against, unless they were idiots at the start. Or emotional children.

It's either sad and unnecessary or;
sad but necessary;

If a media story about a specific death in war changes someone from position two to position one, then they really didn't understand the issue in the first place. That's why these things are so pathethic and partisan, it only appeals to emotional response and nothing substantial in terms of whether a conflict is a necessary evil or not.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,471]

>There was an attempt at giving a face to the death toll back in April by ABC.

Yep. I can also recommend an excellent book - "Purple Hearts - Back from Iraq" that contained interviews with soldiers and their families. With all the talk about the soldiers KIA in Iraq, it's easy to forget that there are over ten thousand soldiers who came close, and are now trying to live with their injuries.

[kallend 1,679]

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The President made these comments on the same day that his Administration announced it was cutting off access to its health care system for approximately 164,000 veterans. The Administration at the same time pushed a cut of $1.5 billion in military housing/medical facility funding, despite the fact that UPI reports “hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait - sometimes for months - to see doctors.”

None of which was in the article you cited in your post...

J

So what? Bush is STILL a hypocrite.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[starkmtn 0]

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Well wait, if people go to that site, they're not exactly going to get an unbiased factual description of who she is. I suggest a news site instead.

I'm assuming you're not even going to try to back that up...

_Watch_ that "news" show sometime. It's pure entertainment. It's actually funny as hell if you forget the fact that so many Americans actually think it's "fair and balanced." It is not a factual representation of what goes on in the world. I have absolutely no problem with that in and of itself. Everyone has a right to "spin" any way they want - be they left-wing, right-wing, moderate, etc. But tabloid journalism should not disguise as "news." Watch it sometime. You may agree with their outlook, but anyone with any critical thinking ability will see that it's clearly biased. Unfortunately, we concentrate so little on critical thinking in schools today that it's truly difficult for many adult Americans to actually use that skill. :(

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[rehmwa 2]

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_Watch_ that "news" show sometime. It's pure entertainment. It's actually funny as hell if you forget the fact that so many Americans actually think it's "fair and balanced." It is not a factual representation of what goes on in the world. I have absolutely no problem with that in and of itself. Everyone has a right to "spin" any way they want - be they left-wing, right-wing, moderate, etc. But tabloid journalism should not disguise as "news." Watch it sometime. You may agree with their outlook, but anyone with any critical thinking ability will see that it's clearly biased. Unfortunately, we concentrate so little on critical thinking in schools today that it's truly difficult for many adult Americans to actually use that skill. :(

I feel the same (about Fox in general), you have to pick the news out of the spin. But I also feel that way about the other major networks (in general) too. They just spin the other way - and just as bad. There are shows that try to balance on both, but the overall theme is always spin.

Do you?


One difference is Fox has a lot of 'opinion' shows which I expect to see spin - by definition. The other news networks aren't as honest about it. In other words, if all the networks spin 90% of the time, at least Fox admits that 60% of the 90% is spin. The others still call that 90% news too. So Fox is lying about their intent 30% of time, while the others lie 90% of the time. Still, it makes them all liars in the end - or least opinion based networks - same thing.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[panzwami 0]

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_Watch_ that "news" show sometime. It's pure entertainment. It's actually funny as hell if you forget the fact that so many Americans actually think it's "fair and balanced." It is not a factual representation of what goes on in the world. I have absolutely no problem with that in and of itself. Everyone has a right to "spin" any way they want - be they left-wing, right-wing, moderate, etc. But tabloid journalism should not disguise as "news." Watch it sometime. You may agree with their outlook, but anyone with any critical thinking ability will see that it's clearly biased. Unfortunately, we concentrate so little on critical thinking in schools today that it's truly difficult for many adult Americans to actually use that skill. :(

I don't see anything in that post that puts forth any specific evidence of biased or unfair reporting on the part of FOXNews, nor do I see anything that supports any other media outlet as being more reliable. You don't seem to have any problem publicly trashing them on this forum, so you should at least have the decency to attempt to provide some sort of proof.

In the meantime, I'll quote "Billy Madison":

"....what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

edit: typo

[masterblaster72 0]

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I don't see anything in that post that puts forth any specific evidence of biased or unfair reporting on the part of FOXNews

Here's some evidence (if an ad comes up, click the "skip ad" link). She might has well have brought out a muzzle, or better yet, cut to a commercial break, it would have done a better job of saving face.

Fair and Balanced? Very professional. Journalism shouldn't have to advertise itself as fair and balanced; it's inherent in what journalism is. In doing that, Fox is trying to compensate for something.

This is an example among many, many others, and I like it because it raises a point I made yesterday.

If you agree with everything you hear on Fox, of course you're going to go around saying they're objective. Fact is, they are not.

Fox's integrity as a news source. Bravo Rupert Murdoch, you've put together a great team. Spew on...and thanks for the laugh.

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nor do I see anything that supports any other media outlet as being more reliable

I never found much bias in CBC or BBC news, that's my experience. You might disagree: bbcnews.com, cbc.ca/world

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.