JohnRich 4
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Everon 0
Go to www.mediamatters.org/items/200508100009
j0nes 0
Quote
One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.
Absolutely correct. I couldn't have said it more succinctly myslef.
Rebecca 0
I still think your choice of words sucks.
Criticize her goals, sure - getting out of Iraq now ain't gonna happen.
But to say you have no sympathy for a mother who's outlived her son is just callous. She didn't make the choice to send him, her son made his choice and got killed for it. Now she's hurt, angry, upset, and doing the one thing she could come up with.
Is her campaign going to accomplish anything even close to her goals? Probably not. She won't get closure, she won't get satisfaction, and the hurt will never abate. At least she'll feel like she did more than just sit there and mourn.
I have a lot of sympathy for her.
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
Criticize her goals, sure - getting out of Iraq now ain't gonna happen.
But to say you have no sympathy for a mother who's outlived her son is just callous. She didn't make the choice to send him, her son made his choice and got killed for it. Now she's hurt, angry, upset, and doing the one thing she could come up with.
Is her campaign going to accomplish anything even close to her goals? Probably not. She won't get closure, she won't get satisfaction, and the hurt will never abate. At least she'll feel like she did more than just sit there and mourn.
I have a lot of sympathy for her.
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
pajarito 0
Two words man...
"Volunteer Military"
Her loss is tragic, however, it comes with the territory. I have great respect and appreciation for what he's done. I have none for the way she is handling the situation now. I think she is doing her son a big disservice.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
"Volunteer Military"
Her loss is tragic, however, it comes with the territory. I have great respect and appreciation for what he's done. I have none for the way she is handling the situation now. I think she is doing her son a big disservice.
j0nes 0
Quote
Is her campaign going to accomplish anything even close to her goals? Probably not. She won't get closure, she won't get satisfaction, and the hurt will never abate.
Absolutely correct. It seems we both agree that she is completely wasting her time standing in the Texas sun.
Her time to protest should have been either:
(1) at the time of her son's enlistment
(2) at a personal meeting with Bush (which she apparently declined)
Quote
I have a lot of sympathy for her.
I'm sure you're a very nice person.
billvon 2,426
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>The woman is using her dead son to get media attention for
>her personal political views.
Again, I think it is in poor taste to smear a woman who has lost her son because you disagree with her.
>One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.
No, but she may be worth listening to. Or not; feel free to change the channel.
>There are plenty of other grieving moms who disagree with her about
>withdrawal from Iraq. It's funny how we don't see the media putting
>any of them on the air every day...
Cause they're not camping out to get their views across.
When's the last time YOU posted something good about a mother who supports the war? You seem to post far more about things you don't like that war protesters do. Does that mean you have the same goals as the 'liberal media?'
>her personal political views.
Again, I think it is in poor taste to smear a woman who has lost her son because you disagree with her.
>One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.
No, but she may be worth listening to. Or not; feel free to change the channel.
>There are plenty of other grieving moms who disagree with her about
>withdrawal from Iraq. It's funny how we don't see the media putting
>any of them on the air every day...
Cause they're not camping out to get their views across.
When's the last time YOU posted something good about a mother who supports the war? You seem to post far more about things you don't like that war protesters do. Does that mean you have the same goals as the 'liberal media?'
billvon 2,426
>I don't see a smear campaign on this women.
The original poster of this thread called her an idiot. O'Reilly has said "she's in bed with the radical left." Michelle Malkin has claimed that her son "would never approve of her behavior." FOX News has called her a liar.
So what would have to happen for it to become a smear campaign?
The original poster of this thread called her an idiot. O'Reilly has said "she's in bed with the radical left." Michelle Malkin has claimed that her son "would never approve of her behavior." FOX News has called her a liar.
So what would have to happen for it to become a smear campaign?
gemini 0
I'm sorry her son died, but it looks to me like she has lost touch with reality and is now destroying her own family:
(1) BUSH PROTESTING MOM CALLS FOR 'ISRAEL OUT OF PALESTINE'; VOWS NOT TO PAY TAXES
Anti-war protestor Cindy Sheehan, whose soldier son Casey was killed in Iraq, is calling for Bush's "impeachment," and for Israel to get out of Palestine!
"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," Sheehan declares.
Sheehan, who is asking for a second meeting with President Bush, says defiantly: "My son was killed in 2004. I am not paying my taxes for 2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny...you give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes) and we'll put this war on trial."
"And now I'm going to use another 'I' word - impeachment - because we cannot have these people pardoned. They need to be tried on war crimes and go to jail."
The 48-year-old California mom remains tented up in a ditch along the one-lane road that leads to Bush's Texas ranch.
As her protest entered its second week, hundreds of people with conflicting opinions about the war in Iraq descended on the area.
TIME mag reports in new editions on Monday: Sheehan gets support from her surviving son, Andy, in principle, but he recently sent her a long e-mail imploring her, "to come home because you need to support us at home."
(2) Sheehan's Husband Seeks Divorce
Bush roadside protester named in California petition filed Friday
AUGUST 15--The next well-wisher approaching Cindy Sheehan at her tent encampment outside President George W. Bush's Texas vacation home may actually be a process server. That's because the California woman's husband--in a curious bit of timing--filed for divorce Friday afternoon (below you'll find a copy of Patrick Sheehan's complaint, lodged August 12 in Solano County District Court). With Sheehan, 48, entering a second week outside Bush's Crawford retreat, her husband's divorce petition cites "irreconcilable differences" for the demise of the couple's 28-year marriage (the Sheehans, the document states, have been separated since June 1). Along with a Vacaville home, Patrick Sheehan listed other "community assets" as "any and all benefits payable as a result of son's death," including a Prudential insurance policy and "benefits from the U.S. Government." From her roadside outpost, Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son Casey, an Army Specialist, was killed last year in Iraq, has become the face of the U.S. antiwar movement, telling reporters that she will not budge until Bush meets with her and explains "why our sons are dead." Noting that Bush has referred to the war as a "noble" pursuit, Sheehan told Reuters, "If it's such a noble cause, why aren't his daughters over there?" Patrick Sheehan's lawyer, Glen DeRonde, did not return a TSG call, so it is unclear whether the divorce complaint will be delivered to her in Texas or when she returns to her home east of San Francisco. (4 pages)
Media blitz or not Bill, there was something wrong with her story from the beginning when she said "Bush refuses to meet with me" without disclosing she had already met with him.
(1) BUSH PROTESTING MOM CALLS FOR 'ISRAEL OUT OF PALESTINE'; VOWS NOT TO PAY TAXES
Anti-war protestor Cindy Sheehan, whose soldier son Casey was killed in Iraq, is calling for Bush's "impeachment," and for Israel to get out of Palestine!
"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," Sheehan declares.
Sheehan, who is asking for a second meeting with President Bush, says defiantly: "My son was killed in 2004. I am not paying my taxes for 2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny...you give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes) and we'll put this war on trial."
"And now I'm going to use another 'I' word - impeachment - because we cannot have these people pardoned. They need to be tried on war crimes and go to jail."
The 48-year-old California mom remains tented up in a ditch along the one-lane road that leads to Bush's Texas ranch.
As her protest entered its second week, hundreds of people with conflicting opinions about the war in Iraq descended on the area.
TIME mag reports in new editions on Monday: Sheehan gets support from her surviving son, Andy, in principle, but he recently sent her a long e-mail imploring her, "to come home because you need to support us at home."
(2) Sheehan's Husband Seeks Divorce
Bush roadside protester named in California petition filed Friday
AUGUST 15--The next well-wisher approaching Cindy Sheehan at her tent encampment outside President George W. Bush's Texas vacation home may actually be a process server. That's because the California woman's husband--in a curious bit of timing--filed for divorce Friday afternoon (below you'll find a copy of Patrick Sheehan's complaint, lodged August 12 in Solano County District Court). With Sheehan, 48, entering a second week outside Bush's Crawford retreat, her husband's divorce petition cites "irreconcilable differences" for the demise of the couple's 28-year marriage (the Sheehans, the document states, have been separated since June 1). Along with a Vacaville home, Patrick Sheehan listed other "community assets" as "any and all benefits payable as a result of son's death," including a Prudential insurance policy and "benefits from the U.S. Government." From her roadside outpost, Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son Casey, an Army Specialist, was killed last year in Iraq, has become the face of the U.S. antiwar movement, telling reporters that she will not budge until Bush meets with her and explains "why our sons are dead." Noting that Bush has referred to the war as a "noble" pursuit, Sheehan told Reuters, "If it's such a noble cause, why aren't his daughters over there?" Patrick Sheehan's lawyer, Glen DeRonde, did not return a TSG call, so it is unclear whether the divorce complaint will be delivered to her in Texas or when she returns to her home east of San Francisco. (4 pages)
Media blitz or not Bill, there was something wrong with her story from the beginning when she said "Bush refuses to meet with me" without disclosing she had already met with him.
It's clear that nothing Bush can say will placate her. She's going to camp out there until the media stops paying attention, or when Bush goes back to Washington.
I'm rather impressed that she managed to get a meeting out of it. While she is using her dead son to publicize the anti war side, she certainly isn't an idiot.
I'm rather impressed that she managed to get a meeting out of it. While she is using her dead son to publicize the anti war side, she certainly isn't an idiot.
billvon 2,426
>I'm sorry her son died, but it looks to me like she has lost touch
>with reality and is now destroying her own family:
It's a good angle to take if you want to discredit her. But if the goal is to smear someone, why not concentrate on Hilary? She deserves it a lot more than this woman.
If people truly did not care about what she said (for whatever reason, perhaps the ones you list below) no one would pay attention to her. I think a lot of right-wingers are terrified of this woman and are bringing all guns to bear on her, partly because she _does_ have a valid message. I'm still waiting for the Swift Boating to start - perhaps a well financed former boyfriend could call her a lunatic?
>with reality and is now destroying her own family:
It's a good angle to take if you want to discredit her. But if the goal is to smear someone, why not concentrate on Hilary? She deserves it a lot more than this woman.
If people truly did not care about what she said (for whatever reason, perhaps the ones you list below) no one would pay attention to her. I think a lot of right-wingers are terrified of this woman and are bringing all guns to bear on her, partly because she _does_ have a valid message. I'm still waiting for the Swift Boating to start - perhaps a well financed former boyfriend could call her a lunatic?
gemini 0
Her message may be valid, but she is destroying the family she has left. Does that make any sense? Would you destroy your family because you were convinced someone else made a mistake? She will end up a bitter, old woman and no one will care then.
Blue skies,
Jim
Blue skies,
Jim
wmw999 2,146
She may well end up that way. Losing a child destroys a lot of marriages from what I hear.
I feel really sorry for her, and wish that there were a less emotion-filled icon for anti-war thought. Really. But she is choosing this path, and whatever comes with it.
Thought is better than emotion to build on.
Wendy W.
I feel really sorry for her, and wish that there were a less emotion-filled icon for anti-war thought. Really. But she is choosing this path, and whatever comes with it.
Thought is better than emotion to build on.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Everon 0
I have a feeling the marriage was over long before her actions, though. Losing a child, unfortunately, results in many a broken relationship.
billvon 2,426
>Her message may be valid, but she is destroying the family she
>has left.
Interesting you assume that she is doing the destroying. Her husband left her June 1st. One might assume they had problems before that.
>Would you destroy your family because you were convinced
>someone else made a mistake?
If you wanted to skydive, and your family didn't want you to do it because they were deathly afraid of your getting killed, would you destroy your family for your own reasons?
She may feel that doing this more important than her family's wishes. She seems to have a pretty strong reason to feel the way she does. If we don't condemn skydivers who "destroy their families" by jumping a lot (ever heard the joke about skydiver AIDS?) why would we condemn her?
>has left.
Interesting you assume that she is doing the destroying. Her husband left her June 1st. One might assume they had problems before that.
>Would you destroy your family because you were convinced
>someone else made a mistake?
If you wanted to skydive, and your family didn't want you to do it because they were deathly afraid of your getting killed, would you destroy your family for your own reasons?
She may feel that doing this more important than her family's wishes. She seems to have a pretty strong reason to feel the way she does. If we don't condemn skydivers who "destroy their families" by jumping a lot (ever heard the joke about skydiver AIDS?) why would we condemn her?
gemini 0
I can understand your and Wendys point about the marriage, but what about the other 3 younger children? How is this effecting them? It may not only be the marriage that is coming apart, she could be tearing the children apart as well because they are usually torn between the mom and dad in a divorce. Is not her responsibility to continue to care for her surviving children and help support them in their time of crises? After all they lost a brother and the husband lost a son. She is not in this alone!
And to think that terrorism will suddenly stop if the US leaves the Middle East and Israel leaves the West Bank or Palestine. Absurd!
Blue skies,
Jim
And to think that terrorism will suddenly stop if the US leaves the Middle East and Israel leaves the West Bank or Palestine. Absurd!
Blue skies,
Jim
dorbie 0
Quote>I have no sympathy for this woman:
I think it is in poor taste to smear the families of dead US soldiers. She has as much right as anyone else to peacefully protest; indeed, I would hazard a guess that she has a greater understanding of the sacrifices we make in Iraq than you do.
>some sort of explanation of *why* her son died?
Or perhaps a change in policies so fewer sons die in the future.
This is a free country, if she wants to call the President a murderer and side with the cause of her son's killer's then her son's sacrifice doesn't get her a free pass. There's a lot wrong with this picture, from her inconsistency over time to the rest of her family's assertions w.r.t. the son's own personal beliefs that conflict with hers. Everyone is acting like this woman is untouchable as she makes the most outrageous, unfounded and extreme accusations. As the left laps it up, the exploitation of this woman's grief and pain is a sorry spectacle.
The administrations policies are intended to prevent future loss of life thorugh long term political reform in the Middle East, looking at one side of the equation and drawing conclusions based on emotional manipulation doesn't make for smart decisions. If you think the commentary isn't calculated by the left just read the blogs where they get their slide rules out on the grieving mother issue.
If this woman's requests to see Bush were genuine I'd have more sympathy but the spectacle of her calling Bush a murderer and then being taken seriously in requesting a meeting is stomach turning. The son is no longer here to speak for himself but citizens have every right to vigorously question her motives and challenge her political statements as she thrusts herself into the spotlight.
There's something awfully manipulative about trying to use a grieving mother as a stalking horse to make and promote the most outrageous and derranged accusations and lending them extra credence while exploiting her position and her son's sacrifice as a shield against all criticism.
So try the guilt trip somewhere else, there's plenty of shame to go around here.
billvon 2,426
>And to think that terrorism will suddenly stop if the US leaves the
>Middle East and Israel leaves the West Bank or Palestine. Absurd!
How is that more absurd than thinking we can "suck" all the terrorists into Iraq and kill them there, leaving a "terrorist vacuum" everywhere? Or the idea that if we just kill enough people the remainder will stop hating us? A lot of people have their own silly ideas on terrorism.
>Middle East and Israel leaves the West Bank or Palestine. Absurd!
How is that more absurd than thinking we can "suck" all the terrorists into Iraq and kill them there, leaving a "terrorist vacuum" everywhere? Or the idea that if we just kill enough people the remainder will stop hating us? A lot of people have their own silly ideas on terrorism.
billvon 2,426
>This is a free country, if she wants to call the President a murderer
> and side with the cause of her son's killer's then her son's sacrifice
> doesn't get her a free pass.
No, but the constitution does get her a free pass. She has no more or less right to protest than anyone else. It is the outrage of the right that has made this a big issue. If they didn't think she had anything valid to say they would have ignored her.
>The administrations policies are intended to prevent future loss of
> life thorugh long term political reform in the Middle East . . .
Of course. She thinks their policies are not working, as do most people in the US. She has every right to express that. Doesn't mean they are evil, just that they may be wrong. If she gets them to listen even a little bit, she may do a lot of good for the US in the long run.
>If this woman's requests to see Bush were genuine I'd have more
> sympathy . . .
Ah, I see. When did you talk to her last?
>but citizens have every right to vigorously question her motives and
> challenge her political statements as she thrusts herself into the
> spotlight.
I agree. But those who cannot debate her statements, and turn rather to smearing her motives, her dead son and her marital status, reveal far more about themselves than about her.
> and side with the cause of her son's killer's then her son's sacrifice
> doesn't get her a free pass.
No, but the constitution does get her a free pass. She has no more or less right to protest than anyone else. It is the outrage of the right that has made this a big issue. If they didn't think she had anything valid to say they would have ignored her.
>The administrations policies are intended to prevent future loss of
> life thorugh long term political reform in the Middle East . . .
Of course. She thinks their policies are not working, as do most people in the US. She has every right to express that. Doesn't mean they are evil, just that they may be wrong. If she gets them to listen even a little bit, she may do a lot of good for the US in the long run.
>If this woman's requests to see Bush were genuine I'd have more
> sympathy . . .
Ah, I see. When did you talk to her last?
>but citizens have every right to vigorously question her motives and
> challenge her political statements as she thrusts herself into the
> spotlight.
I agree. But those who cannot debate her statements, and turn rather to smearing her motives, her dead son and her marital status, reveal far more about themselves than about her.
Well, she wants complete withdrawal, and that ain't gonna happen. She also claims she's going to quit paying taxes until she gets an explanation, which she already has from the first meeting with Bush. And now she's even making statements about how the Iraq war is really about Israel.
The woman is using her dead son to get media attention for her personal political views. She's gone beyond the bounds of trying to get respect for her son and her grief.
One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.
There are plenty of other grieving moms who disagree with her about withdrawal from Iraq. It's funny how we don't see the media putting any of them on the air every day...
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