popsjumper 2 #51 July 28, 2005 I really like Tony Blair....You should see him addressing the House of Commons sometime....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #52 July 28, 2005 QuoteI really like Tony Blair....You should see him addressing the House of Commons sometime.... Yes, but Prime Minister's Question Time has more resemblance to Seinfeld than to reality.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apley 0 #53 July 28, 2005 AMERICA FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO - MAKE OFFER when corporations cease to run american foreign policy, we will get back to reality. not likely in my lifetime... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #54 July 28, 2005 QuoteI really like Tony Blair....You should see him addressing the House of Commons sometime.... If you have several hours on your hands and you have a good book on hand to read during the seemingly endless pauses. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #55 July 28, 2005 Send me the stamps to cover the postage .... and you can have him, with pleasure....(he's an arse) (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #56 July 28, 2005 QuoteA small question. Who is more likely to know a number of people who might become Islamic terrorists, and who is more likely to be able to understand the rationalizations of people who might become Islamic terrorists? A politician in the US A researcher in the US A middle-class Muslim with ties to many other Muslims? Do you go to outside experts or skydivers for information about skydiving? Wendy W. You are foolishly making the assumption these are rational people. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #57 July 28, 2005 Why is it reasonable to assume that a middle-class Muslim with ties to other Muslims is an irrational person? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #58 July 28, 2005 QuoteLondon would not have been targeted but for his twattish policies. You could not possibly know that, and I stand by my word that that is a niave statement to make. In short you are saying, AQ or other islamic terrorists would NEVER attack London if they did not get involved in the Iraq war? Is that it? Please correct me if I am wrong. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #59 July 28, 2005 QuoteQuote A politician in the US A researcher in the US A middle-class Muslim with ties to many other Muslims? Do you go to outside experts or skydivers for information about skydiving? You are foolishly making the assumption these are rational people. I think politicians frequently do irrational things. But that's not what you mean by "these people" -is it? I think it's a huge mistake to assume an entire culture of people are irrational. Why isn't Wendy's question pertinent? Find a middle-class Muslim (not an extremist, just your everyday guy) and get their opinions... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #60 July 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteLondon would not have been targeted but for his twattish policies. You could not possibly know that, and I stand by my word that that is a niave statement to make. In short you are saying, AQ or other islamic terrorists would NEVER attack London if they did not get involved in the Iraq war? Is that it? Please correct me if I am wrong. Thats like saying flying planes into the WTC wouldn't have happened if we hadn't invaded Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #61 July 28, 2005 Um, wasn't he meaning the terrorists? From Wendy's post that he was replying to: 'understand the rationalizations of people who might become Islamic terrorists'Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #62 July 28, 2005 not what was said. What was said was that a person close to a person planning to become a terrorist could understand their rational. My arguement is, A person planning to blow them selves up isn't rational, and therefore could not be "Understood" unless that person too feels on some level that innocent people should be killed for no real reason. Example ... I oppose abortion. My friend does too. He wants to go bomb a clinic. I can NOT for the life of me understand that rational. Kill innocent people, to stop them from doing an abortion. Isn't that a major contradiction? How can I understand my friends rational if it is completely against the reasons of why he supports pro-life? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #63 July 28, 2005 >In short you are saying, AQ or other islamic terrorists would NEVER >attack London if they did not get involved in the Iraq war? The Iraq war certainly helped. ------------------------------------------------ Iraq New Terror Breeding Ground War Created Haven, CIA Advisers Report By Dana Priest Washington Post Friday, January 14, 2005 Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank. Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries." . . . . President Bush has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Jan13.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #64 July 28, 2005 i don't dispute that Bill. However, the terrorist in Iraq are not yet "Mobile". THis has been reported every where. The 'terrorist in Iraq have remained in Iraq and concentrated targeting on US military, Iraqi Police and innocents within the country. There is no evidence to support that once a stable government is completely in place and the troops eventually leave that this terrorism will still exist or even spread outside the border. It is pure speculation both ways. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #65 July 28, 2005 >However, the terrorist in Iraq are not yet "Mobile". >THis has been reported every where. The 'terrorist in Iraq have > remained in Iraq . . . . Hasn't one of the planks of the right wing's position on terrorism in Iraq been that most insurgents are foreign fighters crossing the border to fight the US? If they can get in, they can get out. >There is no evidence to support that once a stable government is >completely in place and the troops eventually leave that this >terrorism will still exist or even spread outside the border. It is pure >speculation both ways. I agree that it is speculation. But I also think it's naive to assume that once we leave things will get better rather than worse. Insurgents are targeting Iraqi police stations and Iraqi military units; what reason will they have to stop once we leave? We will have instilled a deep hatred in both directions by that point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #66 July 28, 2005 Quote>However, the terrorist in Iraq are not yet "Mobile". >THis has been reported every where. The 'terrorist in Iraq have > remained in Iraq . . . . Hasn't one of the planks of the right wing's position on terrorism in Iraq been that most insurgents are foreign fighters crossing the border to fight the US? If they can get in, they can get out. >There is no evidence to support that once a stable government is >completely in place and the troops eventually leave that this >terrorism will still exist or even spread outside the border. It is pure >speculation both ways. I agree that it is speculation. But I also think it's naive to assume that once we leave things will get better rather than worse. Insurgents are targeting Iraqi police stations and Iraqi military units; what reason will they have to stop once we leave? We will have instilled a deep hatred in both directions by that point. Ok... Iagree and disagree. First, you say that a lot of the insurgents are from foriegn lands moving in there. Ok, yes that is true. But that is also one of my points. They are not mastermind terrorist, they are insurgents. There is a difference. Now, prior to the war they had a life and a job presumibly. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that once we left they wouldn't have a cause anymore and they would "Get a job"? As far as the second paragraph.... I am sure there will be some hatered, but you are forgetting that the Iraqis elected the Govmnt. And they will elect the full Govmnt soon. Once the Iraqis have full control over their destiny, they (internally) will work and fight to make their own lives better. It has happened often throughout history. Let's pretend for a minute. Pretend the US never went into Iraq, and the people their decided to have a full revolt and overthrow the Government. Let's say moral was high etc. They would be in a similar situation. THere would be a minority group still trying to fight back and get things back to the way it was. However, with time, the will of the people would overcome that minority group. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #67 July 28, 2005 QuoteLooks like the terrorists are accomplishing exactly what they want. Wrong! They don't give a crap about our liberties. They want us to all be Muslims or dead! Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #68 July 28, 2005 I do.... Like a senator (or congressman said the other day). Take away from them what they hold dear. It is a good deterance .... Put notice out to all terrorist: If any attack on the US by Nuke or Chemical weapons occur. We will retaliate by destroying all your holy sites. It is a tough stance, but it is tough to fight an enemy with no home and nothing they hold dear except their religion. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #69 July 28, 2005 >If any attack on the US by Nuke or Chemical weapons >occur. We will retaliate by destroying all your holy sites. The result? Al Qaeda would IMMEDIATELY attack with improvised chemical weapons, hoping we destroy Mecca, thereby rallying every single Muslim in the world against the US and uniting them under Al Qaeda. Terrorists don't care about human lives or religious relics. They care about power - and our destruction of Mecca would give them that power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #70 July 28, 2005 Again, this would be retailiation for a Nuke or chemical attack on the USA.... You don't thinkk that enough of the Islamic community would then work to prevent any such attack from occuring? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #71 July 28, 2005 >You don't thinkk that enough of the Islamic community would >then work to prevent any such attack from occuring? Consider the following. Let's say you were a devout Catholic, and a Muslim terrorist threatens to blow up the Pope - indeed, all of Vatican City - if the US doesn't get out of Iraq. Would you then start trying to get the US to withdraw from Iraq? Or would the threat just piss you off, and make you more eager to destroy terrorists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #72 July 28, 2005 What would President Billvons' reaction to a nuclear or chemical attack on a dozen US cities that killed 30 million people be? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #73 July 28, 2005 >What would President Billvons' reaction to a nuclear or chemical >attack on a dozen US cities that killed 30 million people be? Determine who pulled it off then attack with everything we had. Even if it wasn't France. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #74 July 28, 2005 Quote>What would President Billvons' reaction to a nuclear or chemical >attack on a dozen US cities that killed 30 million people be? Determine who pulled it off then attack with everything we had. Even if it wasn't France. Suppose it was Al Qaeda, are you going to go after them in Teheran, Sudan, etc? What if the govts. of those countries tell you to bug off? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #75 July 28, 2005 LOL.... Had to throw France in there somehow! When you say "Everything we Have" do you really mean Everything? What if it was a terror cell that lived in Belin, and we knew they were there somewhere. Would you make Berlin a glass factory? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
