fireflytx 0 #76 May 10, 2005 Quotejust tell us where the bar is, & a bunch of us non-smokers will come there & make up the difference! we promise not to break anything....too expensive... KICK ASS!!!! Let's make it happen!"Well behaved women rarely make history" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #77 May 10, 2005 You're right. They'll pass a law, and then after people get used to it in about six months or so, they'll start to make it stricter. People will be pissed off at that too; but there'll be people who say "No, well, you'll get used to it and won't care after a few months." This is exactly how extremely restrictive laws get onto the books; one small step at a time. I guarantee you, within five years from now, smoking will be banned in ALL nonresidential places. Within twenty it'll be completely illegal. Funny thing is, I also half-expect pot to be legalized within the same amount of time.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #78 May 10, 2005 QuoteFirefly, I don't know if you smoke, so don't take this personally... It's amazing, the specious reasoning that addicts will use to preserve the ability to imbibe in their addiction... who cares? if people wanna smoke, just don't do it where I'm breathing. This is not about controlling people's personal habits. The problem is only when your personal habits spread into the area where I'm just trying to breathe air like a normal human being. Look, suppose I sat down in a public (and indoor) place. And I took out a beaker containing rocks of sulfur, & began dripping hydrochloric acid on it, releasing a noxious smell like rotten eggs. Wouldn't the people who ran the place come over & tell me to cut it out? "But I don't want to. I know its a bad habit, & I tried to quit a few times (TsssSSSSS!!! TsssssSSSSSS!!! <>>) But it's my right to do this! If people don't like it they can go somewhere else! (TsssSSS!!! TssssSSSS!!!) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #79 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteFirefly, I don't know if you smoke, so don't take this personally... It's amazing, the specious reasoning that addicts will use to preserve the ability to imbibe in their addiction... who cares? if people wanna smoke, just don't do it where I'm breathing. This is not about controlling people's personal habits. The problem is only when your personal habits spread into the area where I'm just trying to breathe air like a normal human being. Look, suppose I sat down in a public (and indoor) place. And I took out a beaker containing rocks of sulfur, & began dripping hydrochloric acid on it, releasing a noxious smell like rotten eggs. Wouldn't the people who ran the place come over & tell me to cut it out? "But I don't want to. I know its a bad habit, & I tried to quit a few times (TsssSSSSS!!! TsssssSSSSSS!!! <>>) But it's my right to do this! If people don't like it they can go somewhere else! (TsssSSS!!! TssssSSSS!!!) Here's the difference. The owner of the place is telling you to stop; not the government. We're saying it should be the owner's choice whether or not to allow smoking.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #80 May 10, 2005 QuoteThis is one of several issues that makes me a very hypocritical libertarian. I support smoking bans in general. I cannot STAND coming home smelling like cigarette smoke. It really, really pisses me the fuck off. 'Go to bars that don't allow smoking Anvil, you dumbfuck!' you might respond, and I would reply 'which ones are those again?' because the majority do allow smoking, in order to cater to more patrons, knowing that those who detest cigarettes will come in anyway. The converse will hold true as well - the patrons that want to smoke will eventually come in anyway due to lack of options. Going against my libertarian beliefs on this one. I support the ban. It's healthier for everyone. Yes, I am a hypocrite and a real JACKASS. Sorry you're enraged and hope you don't lose business as you predict. This might be more appropriate for Speaker's Corner. That's my opinion. It's one where I'm not consistent with other issues. In principal, I should say that the establishments should decide for themselves and the local/state/fed governements should stay out of it. But I can't, smoking just sucks that much. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #81 May 10, 2005 QuoteIs there some sort of psychological mechanism that kicks in to distort reality and allows one to actually accept as unchallenged fact there is a health hazzard in you walking in a park or down a street where smoking is not banned? http://www.bchealthguide.org/healthfiles/hfile30.stm No distortion, Jen. Second-hand smoke IS bad for you. If you don't like my view, fine, argue your point. Why should I have to breathe smoke in when i'm in public places? But, don't try to play it off as if this shit is not a health hazzard. -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #82 May 10, 2005 QuoteLet me repeat a big part of what I am saying: "Last year here in Austin you had to get a certain air filtration system put in and get a permit to have smoking. Ok, Fine. My club did that along with 200 other bars & restaurants. THIS LEFT SMOKERS AND NONSMOKERS A CHOICE OF WHERE TO WORK OR PATRON. And if you know anything about Austin, 200 bars and restaurants is MAYBE a third of what is here." My right that is taken away.....Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness without harming anyone. Please see above if you think I am trying to hurt someone. All I want is a choice. Ok are you the owner of the club or a bar tender or what? I don't think your trying to hurt anyone, but I think your raising hell over nothing and being a tad bit selfish The people will come back. so calm down. and if you think i don't know what i'm talking about, i live in California we have down this shit already and oh look the gas lamp district is still going.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fireflytx 0 #83 May 10, 2005 Quoteso your saying there are 400 bars in Austin where smoking is NOT allowed? This is from keepaustinfree.com OUR CURRENT SMOKING ORDINANCE MANDATES: Of 46,000 businesses in Austin, over 99% are smoke free. No smoking is allowed anywhere children under 18 are present. Over 2000 restaurants are smoke free. Only 6 allow smoking. Over 400 bars are smoke free. Only 200 allow smoking. Over 150 live music venues are smoke free. Only 63 allow smoking. Only 211 businesses and their employees have chosen to allow smoking in Austin. I think that was fair ordinance."Well behaved women rarely make history" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #84 May 10, 2005 Yeah, well, a liberatarian is suppsed to support others freedom as long as it doesn't intrude on one's own freedom. A smoker is committing a blatantly unnatural act, & intruding on others' completely necessary & natural act of breathing clean air. I tried smoking when I was 17. Tried a few cigs over the course of a few weeks, and in the end I just could never understand how that shit ever caught on so much. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #85 May 10, 2005 QuoteFirefly, I don't know if you smoke, so don't take this personally... It's amazing, the specious reasoning that addicts will use to preserve the ability to imbibe in their addiction... At least I understand it's driven by their addiction. What I find amazing is what drives the specious reasoning that some non-smokers use to blindly accept bad science and spout "second hand smoke" (Save the Children!) in banning smoking in parks, at the beach or other open air public places. Some are ex-smokers and I kind of understand their twist. A few just groove on pressing their will on others (aligning with social power to surplant [supplement?] their perceived lack of personal power). Most are just doing the ritualistic dance they are conditioned to do. So many motivations, none of them healthy.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #86 May 10, 2005 QuoteI know you don't beleive it now but in a couple months, it won't matter at all. You will have to step outside for a few minutes is all. This is probably true. I don't think it will affect business too much... People will just go outside to smoke, and maybe it will even bring some new customers (those who currently avoid bars because of the smoke). However, I still think it should be up to the owner of the bar. And I know a few Austin musicians who don't like touring in California since they can't smoke on stage... so I'll bet they're real happy about Austin (where they spend most of their time playing) now having a ban. But it looks like they were outvoted.... As someone else mentioned, I've also noticed the rapid rate in which Austin has been taken over by Californians... I guess it's because Austin is such a great place and the cost of living is so much less than in California. And here I am, an Austinite stuck in Cali at the moment... I just hope those bastards don't ruin my town before I move back! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #87 May 10, 2005 QuoteYeah, well, a liberatarian is suppsed to support others freedom as long as it doesn't intrude on one's own freedom. A smoker is committing a blatantly unnatural act, & intruding on others' completely necessary & natural act of breathing clean air. I tried smoking when I was 17. Tried a few cigs over the course of a few weeks, and in the end I just could never understand how that shit ever caught on so much. Good point - it's being considered in our area/ 1 - I won't vote for it because I don't want to encourage the liberals any more than they already are. 2 - If it passed, I'd still be happy even though I'd vote against it. 3 - It's warm here now, so time to shut off the car vent and roll up the windows because the asshole in front of me is blowing his smoke out his car window and flicking his butts on the ground. (Usually with two kids in the back without seatbelts on) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #88 May 10, 2005 I don't need scientific reports to tell me that cig smoke is bad for me. I can feel it & smell it. Cancer or not, the fact is that normal humans do not like to eat/drink/ hang out with noxious smoke around them. a smoker would not understand this because they have conditioned themselves gradually over time to be abnormal in this respect. But believe me, to normal humans, cig smoke smells really offensive. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #89 May 10, 2005 QuoteAnd don't try to compare smoking to drinking. If drinkers were like smokers, they would be going around the room pouring alcohol into non-drinkers Cokes. Nice analogy, but more like the drinker pouring the alcohol into your kid's Coke. And on your hair and cloths and in your eyes. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #90 May 10, 2005 QuoteYeah, well, a liberatarian is suppsed to support others freedom as long as it doesn't intrude on one's own freedom. A smoker is committing a blatantly unnatural act, & intruding on others' completely necessary & natural act of breathing clean air if he/she smokes next to that other person. Fixed it for ya. There are ways of preventing non-smokers from being exposed to cigarette smoke without restricting the ability of smokers to indulge in their habits or business owners to decide what facets of business they want to explore. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #91 May 10, 2005 Sorry you are upset but I think a smoking BAN IS FANTASTIC. I hope they enact it everywhere including homes. I believe parents smoking in cars or houses with children is borderline child abuse. The last thing I or anyone else should have to deal with in a bar or restaurant is someone else’s bad habit. Down with the cigarettes!!!!! Yeah baby! Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #92 May 10, 2005 QuoteI don't need scientific reports to tell me that cig smoke is bad for me. I can feel it & smell it. Cancer or not, the fact is that normal humans do not like to eat/drink/ hang out with noxious smoke around them. a smoker would not understand this because they have conditioned themselves gradually over time to be abnormal in this respect. But believe me, to normal humans, cig smoke smells really offensive. That's my point. You support our govt banning activities merely because you don't like them ...not because of a health consideration? Is that really what you want? Jen (non-smoker but otherwise abnormal human)----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #93 May 10, 2005 QuoteI guess it's because Austin is such a great place and the cost of living is so much less than in California. Don't expect that cost of living to stay low, Californians are willing to pay $400,000 for a 3 bedroom house cause that is cheap for them. So once Austinites realize this the prices will start to sky rocket.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #94 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteYeah, well, a liberatarian is suppsed to support others freedom as long as it doesn't intrude on one's own freedom. A smoker is committing a blatantly unnatural act, & intruding on others' completely necessary & natural act of breathing clean air if he/she smokes next to that other person. Fixed it for ya. There are ways of preventing non-smokers from being exposed to cigarette smoke without restricting the ability of smokers to indulge in their habits or business owners to decide what facets of business they want to explore. Blues, Dave Look at it this way: I used to work in a Major League Baseball stadium. We banned smoking in the stands. You've got your assigned seat on the ticket, so the guy who's next to you should have to go elsewhere to smoke. Smokers rightfully should be forced to accommodate nonsmokers. Nonsmoking is not only the natural state, but it's also the majority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #95 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteAnd don't try to compare smoking to drinking. If drinkers were like smokers, they would be going around the room pouring alcohol into non-drinkers Cokes. Nice analogy, but more like the drinker pouring the alcohol into your kid's Coke. And on your hair and cloths and in your eyes. How often do you take your kids into bars? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #96 May 10, 2005 QuoteSorry you are upset but I think a smoking BAN IS FANTASTIC. I hope they enact it everywhere including homes. I believe parents smoking in cars or houses with children is borderline child abuse. The last thing I or anyone else should have to deal with in a bar or restaurant is someone else’s bad habit. Down with the cigarettes!!!!! Yeah baby! Rhino Agreed with bold. I grew up in a smoking household. I was a sickly child: ear infections, colds, nosebleeds, the list goes on. I wish that children weren't victims of their parents stupidity but it happens every day. If smokers as a group would be more mindful of those around them there wouldn't need to be any laws on smoking because they wouldn't smoke in restaurants, bars, next to people on park benches, in busy places, inside their homes where they house non-smokers... -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #97 May 10, 2005 ***But believe me, to normal humans, cig smoke smells really offensive. *** People who don't use deoterant are real offensive too, but its only banned in some libraries and the government hasn't stepped in yet. Some peoples perfume is quiet offensive and makes me sneeze alot. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #98 May 10, 2005 QuoteHow often do you take your kids into bars? Oh look, a fun game of questions - How many restaurants have bars? Do you only smoke in bars? Does smoke only travel in bars? How often do smokers exhale where there is some kind of atmosphere? Does white chocolate really have any flavor? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #99 May 10, 2005 Quote Look at it this way: I used to work in a Major League Baseball stadium. We banned smoking in the stands. You've got your assigned seat on the ticket, so the guy who's next to you should have to go elsewhere to smoke. Smokers rightfully should be forced to accommodate nonsmokers. Nonsmoking is not only the natural state, but it's also the majority. I'm down with that. It's not like you can have 417 MLB stadiums in one town with some catering to smokers and others catering to non-smokers, right? However it also shouldn't take a law. The stadium ownership entity, be it private, public, or government should make that call on their own. I'm not completely in step on the "smokers should be forced to accomodate non-smokers" front though. Every time I go to a Mariner's game, I stop at a place called FX McRory's for a beer and cigar before-hand. Every Tuesday night, they have "single malt and cigar night". How would you propose that people who show up there for the standard Tuesday night event accomodate non-smokers? Wouldn't it be better if non-smokers accomodated the smokers and just stayed away that night? Or are you with the majority of people on this thread who thinks that's an evil, evil practice and should be outlawed? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #100 May 10, 2005 >Is there some sort of psychological mechanism that kicks in to > distort reality and allows one to actually accept as unchallenged fact > there is a health hazzard in you walking in a park or down a street > where smoking is not banned? There is no question that secondhand smoke is dangerous. I agree that bans outside are sort of pointless in most cases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
