Some Don't Get It . . .

[NickDG 23]

It's funny that instead of uniting together against over-regulation and misunderstanding the various fields in aviation knock each other so much. The thrill and beauty of flight is universal, a common denominator that should bind all of us together, but it doesn't.

For instance, while I don’t fly a hang glider I can appreciate it and I grieve for the sport's injured and killed.

While it's nice to see some try to understand, many don't and those are the ones that feel "theirs" is the only way to fly, and it's a sad statement on the human condition.

Maybe the FAA makes a mistake calling their tickets "airmen certificates," as it seems most would freak out if they actually got any air on themselves . . .

The following is a thread from rec.aviation.piloting.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aviation.piloting/browse_frm/thread/7ac0b1d7465062ef/a96f934b46ef8ba8?hl=en#a96f934b46ef8ba8

NickD BASE 194

[rehmwa 2]

It's not surprising - there are real "pilots" and then there are those guys that fly an airplane and think that puts them into some kind of special exclusive country club. You can usually tell which.

One way is to see the idiot that doesn't do his homework and flies through special airspace with his head up his ass. You might find them parallelling a highway and steering using road maps. He's on his way to or from "his" airport. That pilot may cme near our DZ 4 or 5 times in a year and I'm much more fearful of his actions than any jump pilot.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 3]

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You might find them parallelling a highway and . . .

Hmmm, are you a pilot yourself? I only ask because this was actually something I taught my student to do. It's actually a very smart idea especially when flying in areas such as the southwestern deserts where real landmarks are few and far between and having an an emergency landing even a mile away from a road could prove disastrous. In my opinion, if you have a resource as a pilot it behooves you to use it and roads are definitely a major resource when it comes to navigation and emergency landings.

I would -much- rather have a student fly by visual reference (what we call pilotage) than punch a number into a GPS.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jlmiracle 7]

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there are real "pilots" and then there are those guys that fly an airplane and think that puts them into some kind of special exclusive country club. You can usually tell which.

We call them weekend warriors.

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That pilot may come near our DZ 4 or 5 times in a year and I'm much more fearful of his actions than any jump pilot.

Scare the hell out of me too!

We had this tandem passenger. He said he had is private pilots license. We put an Altimeter on him, he asked "what is this?". I told him and he said oh. Then preceded to tell me that his flight school never told him there was a parachute center in the area (not that it was that close). I told him there is probably a parachute on one of those avation maps showing where dropzones are. He just shrugged it off.

We had one weekend warrior cut across the middle of the dz, right before we were dropped, they had no radio and was under central's radar. It was pretty funny how we all opened turned and flipped the guy off. He was close enough to a few to see a few fingers.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Rebecca 0]

I think he may have meant that the highway might be the only reference used in some cases, with no prior checking on restricted airspace. Thus an ignorant intrusion occurs where other, more experienced and knowledgable pilots would have checked first to avoid that...

Are there restricted spaces in the southwestern deserts that could overlap highways?

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[kallend 1,648]

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You might find them parallelling a highway and . . .

Hmmm, are you a pilot yourself? I only ask because this was actually something I taught my student to do. It's actually a very smart idea especially when flying in areas such as the southwestern deserts where real landmarks are few and far between and having an an emergency landing even a mile away from a road could prove disastrous. In my opinion, if you have a resource as a pilot it behooves you to use it and roads are definitely a major resource when it comes to navigation and emergency landings.

I would -much- rather have a student fly by visual reference (what we call pilotage) than punch a number into a GPS.

My instructor taught me that if I ever got lost, to fly down and read the name of the nearest town on its water tower. This in the midwest, where there are lots of water towers and flat featureless cornfields in all directions.

Of course, now I have GPS I never need to look out the window at all!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Nope, not a pilot, only a few lessons to get my degree.

I have no issue with GPS.

Our area has plenty of landmarks.

To follow interstate 94 in our area, the pilot flies offset of the interstate about 2 miles to see the road from his seat. That puts him square over our DZ. (are you from Perris? when Pat sends out the Otter for the summer, our last few pilots were GREAT - they'd get on the radio with these guys and/or play sheep dog with the ones that wouldn't reply to keep them away from our airspace.)

I guess my opinion, is that a flight must be planned, and not checking your flight plan against various activities on that route (such as a DZ) is irresponsible, and not being available on radio is even worse. It's not the old days - too bad, but that's the nuts of it. Following a road map without checking that flight plan against an aviation map and flight service is a poor practice. (Is that better context? Sorry I don't know all the ins and outs, but I hope you can take the message and not pick the inaccuracies of a non-pilot)

Other - we have a local club (not mine) that got begged to come to a public airport - absolutely the red carpet treatment. BUT after moving, the locals proceeded to file trumped up charge after charge to get them kicked off of what they thought of as their little country club.

I can say I've definitely met two general types of pilots. One kind I really like, the other......

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I think he may have meant that the highway might be the only reference used in some cases, with no prior checking on restricted airspace. Thus an ignorant intrusion occurs where other, more experienced and knowledgable pilots would have checked first to avoid that...

Wow, that was done in a lot fewer words than my response.

The IMPRESSION is that some types of pilots don't even feel it necessary to do more than take their highway map. Treating an airplane like a car taken out of the garage.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

He scaring the crap out of me! He operates out of an airport that is just 30 miles south of the DZ I go to

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

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I can say I've definitely met two general types of pilots. One kind I really like, the other......

The real issue is that the -vast- majority of pilots have no idea whatsoever what the little parachutes on the charts -really- mean. No idea how dangerous it can be to fly near parachute ops.

Not -really- their fault either. It's usually not something that's emphasized too much unless the pilot happens to train at an airport that's also a drop zone.

Odds are, most pilots never give it a second thought. There is no requirement for them to be in contact with the drop zone and depending on where in the country you're talking about, they might have their hands full anyway.

This is not an excuse. Simply reality.

A little bit of education goes a long way.

Here in SoCal, Harry Leitcher(sp? sorry Harry), one of our local jumpers who also happens to be a -very- active CFI and (if I'm not mistaken) an FAA Aviation Safety Councilor, periodically gives "Wings" lectures to pilots on the subject.

Yeah, I'm from Perris and most of our pilots are excellent at working with ATC and the transient aircraft. Of course, since we're jumping -through- March's airspace, well, they kinda have to be! Our problems usually lay just under March's airspace with folks homing in on the VORTAC about 2 miles SE of the airport. If they're tucking under March's airspace from the direction of Elsinore or John Wayne, it puts them pretty much right over Perris and usually about breakoff to opening altitude.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Ron 7]

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The real issue is that the -vast- majority of pilots have no idea whatsoever what the little parachutes on the charts -really- mean

Well thats easy...Just look at it...It means that airport has ice cream

The thing is I see a lot of hate from pilots to skydivers....But I also see alot of hate from skydivers to pilots.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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The thing is I see a lot of hate from pilots to skydivers....But I also see alot of hate from skydivers to pilots.

That must leave you two guys very conflicted

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[chuckbrown 0]

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The thing is I see a lot of hate from pilots to skydivers....

My take is that pilots who only fly for expensive ice cream cones tend to be intimidated by jumpers, and, therefore, are not very friendly. Pilots who live and breathe flying identify with jumpers much more, even if they don't jump; they understand our mutual love of being in the air.

We have lots of aerobatic pilots who practice at my DZ. Everyone of them loves being around jumpers. They even throw us a party once a year because we vacate the airport to allow them to hold an annual competition. I will say that flying a Sukhoi through aerobatic manuevers is a bigger rush than skydiving.

[Ron 7]

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My take is that pilots who only fly for expensive ice cream cones tend to be intimidated by jumpers

The Ice cream joke was about how DZ's look like on sectionals....Get one and have a look

But you are correct about some pilots have no clue...Just like every other bias it is mostly due to ignorance.

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I will say that flying a Sukhoi through aerobatic manuevers is a bigger rush than skydiving

If I had a good aerobatic plane...I'd quit jumping.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[chuckbrown 0]

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My take is that pilots who only fly for expensive ice cream cones tend to be intimidated by jumpers

The Ice cream joke was about how DZ's look like on sectionals....Get one and have a look

But you are correct about some pilots have no clue...Just like every other bias it is mostly due to ignorance.

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I will say that flying a Sukhoi through aerobatic manuevers is a bigger rush than skydiving

If I had a good aerobatic plane...I'd quit jumping.

I know what they look like. I was also referring to people who merely learn to fly so they can go get a $100 ice cream cone (or hamburger or taco....). A double entendre, you know. I would have thought you'd have picked up on that.

I'm with you on the aerobatic plane & quitting jumping. `