Senate vote for ANWR drilling

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/16/arctic.drilling.ap/index.html

This was my favorite quote in the article.....care to explain the logic of this one?? Conserve and produce at the same time? Can you make war and prepare for peace at the same time? Maybe you should file divorce papers at the same time you are getting married? "Some people say we ought to conserve more. They say we ought to conserve instead of producing this oil," said Sen. Pete Domenici, R-New Mexico, "But we need to do everything. We have to conserve and produce where we can."

It just goes to show that the majority of republicans are a bunch of idiots with no forethought to the long term effect of their actions. Money is the motivation. Oil helps make the decisions for this Administration and it's tag-alongs. Will it surprise anyone when we find out that company's connected/friends with the Bush family will benefit from this?

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Amid the backdrop of soaring oil and gasoline prices, a sharply divided Senate on Wednesday voted to open the ecologically rich Alaska wildlife refuge to oil drilling, delivering a major energy policy win for President Bush.

The Senate, by a 51-49 vote, rejected an attempt by Democrats and GOP moderates to remove a refuge drilling provision from next year's budget, preventing opponents from using a filibuster -- a tactic that has blocked repeated past attempts to open the Alaska refuge to oil companies.

The action, assuming Congress agrees on a budget, clears the way for approving drilling in the refuge later this year, drilling supporters said.

The oil industry has sought for more than two decades to get access to what is believed to be billions of barrels of oil beneath the 1.5 million-acre coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in the northern eastern corner of Alaska. (Map)

Environmentalists have fought such development and argued that despite improve environmental controls a web of pipelines and drilling platforms would harm calving caribou, polar bears and millions of migratory birds that use the coastal plain.

Bush has called tapping the reserve's oil a critical part of the nation's energy security and a way to reduce America's reliance on imported oil, which account for more than half of the 20 million barrels of crude use daily. The Alaska refuge could supply as much as 1 million barrels day at peak production, drilling supporters said.

"We won't see this oil for 10 years. It will have minimal impact," argued Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Washington, a co-sponsor of the amendment that would have stripped the arctic refuge provision from the budget document. It is "foolish to say oil development and a wildlife refuge can coexist," she said.

Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, argued that more oil would be saved if Congress enacted an energy policy focusing on conservation, more efficient cars and trucks and increased reliance on renewable fuels and expanded oil development in the deep-water Gulf where there are significant reserves.

"The fact is (drilling in ANWR) is going to be destructive," said Kerry.

But drilling proponents argued that modern drilling technology can safeguard the refuge and still tap the likely -- though not yet certain -- 10.4 billion barrels of crude in the refuge.

"Some people say we ought to conserve more. They say we ought to conserve instead of producing this oil," said Sen. Pete Domenici, R-New Mexico, "But we need to do everything. We have to conserve and produce where we can."

The vote Wednesday contrasted with the last time the Senate took up the ANWR drilling issue two years ago. Then, an attempt to include it in the budget was defeated. But drilling supporters gained strength last November when Republicans picked up three additional seats, all senators who favored drilling in the refuge.

Opponents of drilling complained that Republicans this time were trying "an end run" by attaching the refuge provisions to the budget, a tactic that would allow the measure to pass with a majority vote.

"It's the only way around a filibuster" which requires 60 votes to overcome, countered Stevens.

The 19-million-acre refuge was set aside for protection by President Eisenhower in 1960, but Congress in 1980 said its 1.5 million acre coastal plain could be opened to oil development if Congress specifically authorizes it.

Bush, who has urged Congress repeatedly to allow oil companies to tap the refuge's crude, said Wednesday it's "a way to get some additional reserves here at home on the books."

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[newsstand 0]

So now you understand why oil prices spiked,

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So now you understand why oil prices spiked,

No, I don't understand. Perhaps you can explain why it would be advantageous to OPEC to have us drill in Anwar?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Reminds me of the tired old arguements made before the Alaskan Pipeline was built about how it would harm Caribou and Moose. Turns out their populations increased and they actually found moose prefering to be around the pipeline because of the warmth generated by it.

[newsstand 0]

Never said it was good for OPEC. In fact they are increasing production to offset the spike. It is however good for GWB and cronies because it gives them an excuse to drill domestically in places we would not normally accept..

Run this search on Google.

urban oil drilling

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Never said it was good for OPEC. In fact they are increasing production to offset the spike. It is however good for GWB and cronies because it gives them an excuse to drill domestically in places we would not normally accept..

Run this search on Google.

urban oil drilling

For you to imply that oil prices spiked to help out Bush and his buddies means you are implicating Bush as having something to do with the spike. For this to be so, he would have to exert some control over OPEC and for him to accomplish that, it would have to be beneficial to OPEC. So please explain how OPEC would benefit from the US drilling in Anwr?

[newsstand 0]

Presumably we live in a "supply and demand" economy. However when the prices were at average $1.50 a gallon and going up it was all over the news. Slowly the prices crept to $1.75 and after that it stabilized for a few months. Then there were a few small reports about gas going up a quarter in the next two weeks and then we have the ANWR vote. Coincidence, I suppose it is possible. But who controls OPEC, the Saudi's? Who in the middle east are best friends of the US government regardless of political affiliation? The Saudi's!

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[billvon 2,466]

>This was my favorite quote in the article.....care to explain the logic of this one??

Why eliminate our dependence on foreign oil through alternative energy, when we can slightly offset our demand in 10 years with Alaskan oil? New energy sources would require hard work, creativity and innovation, and we don't do them anymore. We outsource those tasks to India and China nowadays. We just have good lawyers.

There's a now-apocryphal story about the ZEV mandate in the 80's-90's. When Japanese car companies heard of the mandate, they hired more engineers. American car companies hired more laywers.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Presumably we live in a "supply and demand" economy. However when the prices were at average $1.50 a gallon and going up it was all over the news. Slowly the prices crept to $1.75 and after that it stabilized for a few months. Then there were a few small reports about gas going up a quarter in the next two weeks and then we have the ANWR vote. Coincidence, I suppose it is possible. But who controls OPEC, the Saudi's? Who in the middle east are best friends of the US government regardless of political affiliation? The Saudi's!

So you believe Bush is capable of manipulating the global price of oil? And you believe he is capable of doing this without anyone being aware of his motives?

[quade 3]

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So you believe Bush is capable of manipulating the global price of oil?

Not to put -too- fine a point on it, but if you wanted to make oil prices spike you might destabilze the middle east while at the same time increasing demand by offering incentives to drive larger and more fuel inefficient vehicles . . . hmmm . . . but that would put the man into the category of diabolicle genuis as opposed to incredible dufus.

No, we have to assume that he and his minions haven't -conspired- to create this situation, but rather are simply taking -advantage- of it.

On the other hand, could someone -please- explain to me why Kuwait charges us for oil at all?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So you believe Bush is capable of manipulating the global price of oil?

Not to put -too- fine a point on it, but if you wanted to make oil prices spike you might destabilze the middle east while at the same time increasing demand by offering incentives to drive larger and more fuel inefficient vehicles . . . hmmm . . . but that would put the man into the category of diabolicle genuis as opposed to incredible dufus.

No, we have to assume that he and his minions haven't -conspired- to create this situation, but rather are simply taking -advantage- of it.

On the other hand, could someone -please- explain to me why Kuwait charges us for oil at all?

I plan on taking advantage of it too. I'm getting ready to purchase some more Exxon Stock. Do you think I should sell off some of my Haliburton Stock, or keep it? Decisions, decisions.....

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Do you think I should sell off some of my Haliburton Stock, or keep it?"

KBR will be sold this year, I reckon this will increase the value of your Halli stock
So I'm knocking my pan in to make you richer, oh the delicious irony...

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[newsstand 0]

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So you believe Bush is capable of manipulating the global price of oil? And you believe he is capable of doing this without anyone being aware of his motives?

I don't believe GWB is capable of much on his own but if you throw in Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, the long term family relationship with the Saudi's, the U.S. oil companies and the rest of the gang I think a lot of things can happen. I am not saying the GWB sat down one day and said "Lets run up the price of oil so we can drill in ANWR." I am saying that there enough dangerous people in the administration that a plan like that could have been formulated and the Saudi's would have been more than happy to help. It will be years before oil is flowing in to the supply chain from Alaska and it isn't going to have any real impact on prices when it does so it doesn't hurt them for it to happen.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[SkyDekker 1,150]

you guys better start being nice to us here in Canada. We are your biggest supplier of oil. Guess we are next on the invasion list

[SpeedRacer 1]

are hockey sticks considered Weapons of Mass Distruction??

I think we'd better invade just to be on the safe side.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[SkyDekker 1,150]

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I think we'd better invade just to be on the safe side.

President George Bush was in the Oval Office wondering which country to invade next, when his telephone rang.

"Hallo, President Bush" a heavily accented voice said. This is Archie, up 'ere at the Harp Seal Pub in Badger's Cove, Newfoundland, Canada eh? I am callin' to tells ya dat we're officially declaring war on you hosers!"

Well Archie," George replied, "This is indeed important news! How big is your army?"

"Right now," said Archie, after a moments calculation "there is meself, me cousin Harold, me next-door-neighbour Mick, and the whole dart team from the pub. Dat makes eight!"

George paused. "I must tell you Archie, that I have one million men in my army waiting to move on my command.

"Holy jeez," said Archie. "I'll have ta call ya back!"

Sure enough, the next day, Archie called again. "Mr. Bush, the war is still on! We have managed to acquire some infantry equipment!"

"And what equipment would that be Archie?", George asked.

"Well sir, we have two combines, a bulldozer, and Harry's farm tractor."

President Bush sighed. "I must tell you Archie, that I have 16,000 tanks and 14,000 armoured personnel carriers. Also I've increased my army to one and a half million since we last spoke."

"Bloody hell bye", said Archie, "I'll have to be getting' back to ya then."

Sure enough, Archie rang again the next day. "President Bush, the war is still on! We have managed to git ourselves airborne! We up an' modified Harrigan's ultra-light wit a couple of shotguns in the cockpit, and four guys from the Legion have joined us as well!"

George was silent for a minute then cleared his throat. "I must tell you Archie that I have 10,000 bombers and 20,000 fighter planes. My military complex is surrounded by laser-guided, surface-to-air missile sites. And since we last spoke, I've increased my army to TWO MILLION!"

"Roight then," said Archie, "I'll have ta call youse back."

Sure enough, Archie called again the next day. "President Bush! I am sorry to have to tell you dat we have had to call off dis 'ere war."

"I'm sorry to hear that" said George. "Why the sudden change of heart?"

"Well, sir," said Archie, "me and da byes all sat ourselves down and had a long chat over a bunch o' pints, and come to realize dat dere's no way we can feed two million prisoners."

[Jimbo 0]

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Guess we are next on the invasion list

My God! Let's hope so!

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Guess we are next on the invasion list

My God! Let's hope so!

-
Jim

Would be interesting....looks like about half the country is ready to commit suicide with no NHL games this year.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[TrophyHusband 0]

am i the only one who wants to see all of the oil in the world get used up? its going to happen eventually, so is might as well be during my lifetime. i'm sure that the oil companies already have alternatives ready for when that time comes. they just won't make it available until the oil is used up.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Casurf1978 0]

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It will be years before oil is flowing in to the supply chain from Alaska and it isn't going to have any real impact on prices when it does so it doesn't hurt them for it to happen.

2020 will be when it reaches full production and will reduce our dependance on foreign oil by a whopping 2 percent. I say get rid of the gas exemption tax for SUVs and mini vans if you want to see change within the next few years rather than in 15+.

[TomAiello 25]

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Can you make war and prepare for peace at the same time?

I should hope so.

Otherwise, you'll have a hack of a mess on your hands when the war ends. If you look at history, in the last 18 months or so of WWII the strategies were dominated by considerations of the postwar repercussions. WWI leaders, on the other hand, had a bit less foresight, and a significantly messier peace.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Gawain 0]

YES!! A sliver of a national reserve is being opened up for us to exploit natural resources.

Yeah, wildlife can't co-exist with us...whatever. The caribou are just hating that pesky Alaskan pipeline running thousands of miles down the western end of the continent.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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YES!! A sliver of a national reserve is being opened up for us to exploit natural resources.

Yeah, wildlife can't co-exist with us...whatever. The caribou are just hating that pesky Alaskan pipeline running thousands of miles down the western end of the continent.

I don't see the point of the drilling at all. I've yet to hear a good, logical reason why we should do it. In ten years it might lower our dependence by 2%. Now imagine the alternatives we could have come up with over the last 20+ years instead of fending off the idiots that wanted to drill so their friends can make more money? The money and manhours spent on this topic would have been better spent and we could be on the way to a new infrastructure at this point.

But hey, at least those caribou will have another way to find some heat in the wild. What would they have done without that?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Casurf1978 0]

Caribou aside. Is it worth spending god knows how much money and man hours on reducing our dependence in 10-20 years by 2 percent? We need solutions within a few years not in 2020. This admin wants to put a man on Mars and have station on the moon, yet all Ive heard about reducing consumption is a few lines in a speech. If we lifted the SUV tax on manufactures like GM that would increase tax rev by 10 billion a year. If GM had to pay a few billion a year in taxes because they make gas guzzling engines they sure as hell would have an incentive to produce more fuel efficient ones.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So you believe Bush is capable of manipulating the global price of oil? And you believe he is capable of doing this without anyone being aware of his motives?

I don't believe GWB is capable of much on his own but if you throw in Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, the long term family relationship with the Saudi's, the U.S. oil companies and the rest of the gang I think a lot of things can happen. I am not saying the GWB sat down one day and said "Lets run up the price of oil so we can drill in ANWR." I am saying that there enough dangerous people in the administration that a plan like that could have been formulated and the Saudi's would have been more than happy to help. It will be years before oil is flowing in to the supply chain from Alaska and it isn't going to have any real impact on prices when it does so it doesn't hurt them for it to happen.

You still haven't adequately explained why the Saudis would do something that has the potential of reducing the amount of oil one of their largest customers buys. Manufacturing a steep jump in the price of oil would also encourage other countries and corporations to push harder to develop other energy source. You really believe the Saudis' would do this just because they are friends of the Bushs?