peacefuljeffrey 0 #26 November 10, 2004 QuoteYou see I just dont agree that carrying a large knife to pull on people when you have the need is right. No, it's pretty clear that you think treating everyone as though they are someone who would knife someone criminally, as opposed to in lawful self defense, is right. QuoteAnd thankfully, in this country you would be arrested on the spot. Giving thanks for wasting the manpower and resources of your police and courts. That's wonderful. QuoteAs for PJ's arguement that people would then carry round a kitchen knife - if they were that similar you why dont you both have one of those? Arnt they cheaper but just as effective? If the guy driving around in the $80,000 Porsche Cayenne SUV suddenly found them banned, would he refuse to drive the Hyundai Accent if he needed to get to work and the store? You make it seem like just because something basic would do the trick, that all anyone is ever justified in wanting is something basic. That's a fallacy. I carry a Spyderco instead of a plain kitchen knife because it's far more convenient to have a folding knife, and because they are generally of far better quality than the typical kitchen knife, and designed with different purposes in mind. Form follows function, with knives. Some knives are cut out for specific types of tasks, and some are general purpose (I favor general purpose knives). It's hardly reasonable for you to argue that I should accept a ban on all knives but kitchen knives, just because I could use kitchen knives to do the things I use my folders for. I might just argue that people should be forced to drive nothing finer than that Hyundai Accent. What will end up being saved, though, if all knives except kitchen knives get banned, if those who would have used other knives to stab people end up using kitchen knives? -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #27 November 10, 2004 QuoteSo you're happy with living in a country where you feel the need to carry a knife (and a gun - I can't remember I you do or not) for personal protection. Personally I'm glad to live in a country where I don't feel that need. I carry a knife principally for the utility it offers as a tool, and have never had to use it in self defense. It is there if I need it, though. I carry a knife because long ago, cavemen figured out how to use edged tools, and they became one of the most useful things mankind has ever devised. It is STUPID not to avail oneself of useful tools simply because some people put them to nefarious uses. I'll never get over how moronic people are when it comes to me carrying a knife: "What do you need that?!" "Ewww, that's scary!" What, it's just a fucking TOOL. Scary is as scary does. Who are the first people coming to me to borrow a knife when they need something cut, then? The idiots who think there's something "wrong" with being prepared by carrying one as a matter of course. They act weirded-out by knowing that I have a knife on me all the time, but then concede it's useful when it's needed. Well, WTF would they have done if ME, the ONE GUY in the office with a knife, hadn't had one? That alone should tell them, "Carry your own fucking knife. What if you need one on Jeff's night off?!" -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #28 November 10, 2004 QuoteSo you're happy with living in a country where you feel the need to carry a knife (and a gun - I can't remember I you do or not) for personal protection. Personally I'm glad to live in a country where I don't feel that need. Knife crime in your country is up 350%... Obviously someone is feeling the need. Just because you think you're sheltered, doesn't mean you're necessarily truly safe. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #29 November 10, 2004 I'm not sure why Scotland needs this law... it is already illegal to carry such weapons in a public place. It doesn’t appear to add much. Then again, it's a long way from being passed... all this article refers to is their First Minister saying he's planning to introduce the bill... how many failed bills are there? How many “bright ideas” from politicians turn out to be nonsense? Given this doesn't exactly increase police powers but does inhibit lawful collectors, I wouldn't be surprised if it falls by the wayside. That’s why we have parliamentary scrutiny. You should all note in you whinings that smaller knives are perfectly legal to carry. As to why someone would need anything bigger than a 3" non-locking blade for simple utility purposes I don't know... perhaps it gives them a hard on when they hold it. If you need something bigger for a specific purpose – well there’s your “reason” which makes it legal to carry it. If you want to pack some “Crocodile Dundee” chunk of steel for self defence purposes… well sorry, please don't come to our country - you're not welcome. That's how we like our soup... if you like yours a different way feel free, but don't lament our croutons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #30 November 10, 2004 QuoteNo, it's pretty clear that you think treating everyone as though they are someone who would knife someone criminally, as opposed to in lawful self defense, is right That is where the point is - Lawful self defense. In the UK you are allowed to use REASONABLE force to defend yourself. Plunging a serated edge 9" blade just isnt reasonable at all. QuoteI carry a knife because long ago, cavemen figured out how to use edged tools I would put myself in a category that has evolved since that time... would you do the same? QuoteI'll never get over how moronic people are when it comes to me carrying a knife However veiled this insult is, it is a perfect example of why you would get hate mail from your family. A little too strong and not adding to your debate. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #31 November 10, 2004 QuoteYou should all note in you whinings that smaller knives are perfectly legal to carry. As to why someone would need anything bigger than a 3" non-locking blade for simple utility purposes I don't know... perhaps it gives them a hard on when they hold it. If you need something bigger for a specific purpose – well there’s your “reason” which makes it legal to carry it. Your "reason" may not apply at the time of the given day that the cop stops you for it -- and your government is becoming more and more open to people being stopped on the street with no probable cause. Not getting into trouble is less and less a protection against being found with a "prohibited" knife. Now, I already know that Spyderco makes the "Pride" models to satisfy the laws you and other countries have against locking blades... Which is ASININE. What the fuck is wrong with locking blades?! They are a SAFETY DEVICE FOR THE USER OF THE KNIFE. WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY PROHIBITED AS THOUGH THEY MAKE A KNIFE LESS "DANGEROUS" IN THE CRIMINAL SENSE?! If you don't want your laws criticized as being mindlessly stupid, just don't have mindlessly stupid laws. This would be like making a law against having power steering because you feel that it makes it easier for getaway drivers to get away after a bank robbery. QuoteIf you want to pack some “Crocodile Dundee” chunk of steel for self defence purposes… well sorry, please don't come to our country - you're not welcome. You lose all credibility when you presume to speak for your entire country and withdraw "welcomes" from others. You really think that everyone in your country thinks like you and despises the idea of a person carrying a bowie knife if he so chooses? Even those in your country who may own bowie knives? -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #32 November 10, 2004 Quote WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY PROHIBITED AS THOUGH THEY MAKE A KNIFE LESS "DANGEROUS" IN THE CRIMINAL SENSE?! It is much harder to stab someone with a non-locking blade... it has a tendency to rotate and cut your fingers when you try to plunge it through someone else’s flesh. QuoteYou lose all credibility when you presume to speak for your entire country and withdraw "welcomes" from others. No - I spoke for the law of my country... that is what the law says after all – you are not welcome to walk down the street with a foot long bowie knife. Am I allowed to speak for the law of my country? Why yes I am, one of my official titles is "Officer of the Court" - it can be my job to speak for the law. You get me here doing it for free. Aren’t you lucky. QuoteYou really think that everyone in your country thinks like you and despises the idea of a person carrying a bowie knife if he so chooses? Even those in your country who may own bowie knives? I own a bowie knife. I own a large collection of antique, WWI and WWII bayonets. One of my favourite is a 27” long sword-bayonet from the French Revolutionary Wars. It doesn’t mean I see any need to walk down the street with one. And once again - I didn't speak for the people... I spoke for the law. The law has been created by a government who was elected by a majority vote of our populous. That is what Britain, as a whole wants. As I said, if you want something different; fine. But this is what we want... why the need to get upset about it. You don't live here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #33 November 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteNo, it's pretty clear that you think treating everyone as though they are someone who would knife someone criminally, as opposed to in lawful self defense, is right That is where the point is - Lawful self defense. In the UK you are allowed to use REASONABLE force to defend yourself. Plunging a serated edge 9" blade just isnt reasonable at all. It should make no difference. If you have arrived at a point where lethal retaliatory force is lawfully justified, does it matter whether you kill someone with a 3.75" knife or a 9" knife?? That's preposterous! If the size of the knife is more a factor than whether deadly force was justified for defense, you got problems with discerning what is important. QuoteQuoteI carry a knife because long ago, cavemen figured out how to use edged tools I would put myself in a category that has evolved since that time... would you do the same? You put yourself in a category of mankind that no longer has any use for edged tools? What the fuck are you talking about? QuoteQuoteI'll never get over how moronic people are when it comes to me carrying a knife However veiled this insult is, it is a perfect example of why you would get hate mail from your family. A little too strong and not adding to your debate. Actually, no, it's not. It's not a veiled insult, either. I am straightforward serious. I think it is moronic that people get squicked by me carrying a knife, since they know I do so in the context of also knowing I am a non-violent, upstanding, honest-citizen-type person. I don't look at the smokers I know all cockeyed and ask them what they plan to set ablaze with their cigarette lighters... but knife carriers are constantly asked stupid, stupid, insulting questions like, "Who you gonna kill with that?!" And you say I'm being insulting? Imagine being confronted with someone with whom you are on friendly terms, and being treated as though at the drop of a hat you might become a psychotic slasher, just because you take out a 3.75 inch pocketknife to cut open a package! Suddenly they act as if "they don't know you, or what you're capable of." They lose all sense and reason because of a tool that has been commonplace for millennia. Are you saying that we are arriving at a GOOD place in human history and evolution when we decide to try to make knives scarce in society, even despite their being regarded as simple tools for thousands of years? I find that attitude toward tools bizarre! Suddenly, ours is the generation out of all those hundreds of generations, that can't be trusted with knives. You have to realize how freakish that sounds. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingley 0 #34 November 10, 2004 Quote You lose all credibility when you presume to speak for your entire country... Hmmm... Let it go, Jeffrey. The amount of energy you expend on this is shocking. Why not use it to address the disparity between violent deaths in our respective countries? I know it's painfull, but the truth often hurts. We can't stop you coming here, but you have to be aware that those who see guns and knives as hobbies attract attention in countries where cavemen died out long ago. Hell, we don't even club our mates over the head any more, and you never see loin cloths. Don't be so scared all the time. You have a good family looking over you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #35 November 10, 2004 QuoteQuote WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY PROHIBITED AS THOUGH THEY MAKE A KNIFE LESS "DANGEROUS" IN THE CRIMINAL SENSE?! It is much harder to stab someone with a non-locking blade... it has a tendency to rotate and cut your fingers when you try to plunge it through someone else’s flesh. So you'd rather they have only KITCHEN KNIVES, which (all but one single model I've ever seen) are all FIXED BLADES, stronger even than locking folding blades?! Okay, I call "stupid" about that one. That is really a stupid, misguided policy. Ban locking folders because they're sturdy and stay open when stabbing a person in a criminal attack, and ban even non-locking folders, ban everything but those fixed-blade kitchen knives. You surely must see where this is going... QuoteYou lose all credibility when you presume to speak for your entire country and withdraw "welcomes" from others. QuoteAm I allowed to speak for the law of my country? Why yes I am, one of my official titles is "Officer of the Court" - it can be my job to speak for the law. You get me here doing it for free. Aren’t you lucky. I'm almost ready to pay you to shut up about the law in your country! QuoteI own a bowie knife. I own a large collection of antique, WWI and WWII bayonets. One of my favourite is a 27” long sword-bayonet from the French Revolutionary Wars. It doesn’t mean I see any need to walk down the street with one. So... You support the banning of all but kitchen knives, because who needs anything but kitchen knives... And you probably think of me as one of those "Yank gun/knife nuts," even though all I have are practical folders and two or three modest fixed blades... If this knife ban happens, how would it protect the public from YOU, if you should decide to one day take out a few of these massive collectible knives and run nuts through a shopping mall with them? Would you accept the government coming in to strip you of all but your kitchen knives? After all, if you found yourself of a mind to go kill people by stabbing them, you're not likely to heed the law that says you can't carry knives around... Will you lay it on the line and agree that if a knife ban will make your country safer, it has to get rid of the currently-owned "excessively dangerous" knives, including those you own yourself? After all, even if you got some sort of "collector's licence" (I spelled it that way as a courtesy to you), that's no guarantee, just the same way Hamilton's gun licence didn't prevent him from killing all those kids and teachers at Dunblane... Obviously, even your licenced upstanding citizens cannot be trusted with the implements they own, so they must be confiscated for the public good. QuoteThe law has been created by a government who was elected by a majority vote of our populous. That is what Britain, as a whole wants. That's funny. Because they're saying (here and abroad) that even though 3 million more people voted for Bush than for Kerry, it doesn't prove that that's what America "wants." Surely they wanted Kerry, but someone stole 3,000,000 votes to give the job to Bush. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #36 November 10, 2004 QuoteQuote You lose all credibility when you presume to speak for your entire country... Hmmm... Let it go, Jeffrey. The amount of energy you expend on this is shocking. It's spare energy. Trust me, this is not taxing for me. QuoteWhy not use it to address the disparity between violent deaths in our respective countries? I know it's painfull, but the truth often hurts. I remember a news story about a NAKED, SWORD-WIELDING MAN who ran amok in a CHURCH in England just a couple of years ago. He was eventually stopped, after injuring several people, by an off-duty cop who had to pry a CHURCH ORGAN PIPE off the organ to flail at the swordsman! Tell me... why didn't your anti-blade-carrying laws stop this guy from carrying a sword into a church and starting to swing it? After you answer that question, tell us why a further law prohibiting all but kitchen knives would accomplish anything more. QuoteHell, we don't even club our mates over the head any more, and you never see loin cloths. I don't know about loin cloths, but I suspect that you stab your mates with broken beer bottles in pub brawls and soccer riots. Oh, wait, is that the kind of mate you meant? QuoteDon't be so scared all the time. You have a good family looking over you. You wish this were about me being scared. Me, I'm just cautiously prepared. It's your whole country that acts scared. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #37 November 10, 2004 Quote Are you saying that we are arriving at a GOOD place in human history and evolution when we decide to try to make knives scarce in society, even despite their being regarded as simple tools for thousands of years? I find that attitude toward tools bizarre! Suddenly, ours is the generation out of all those hundreds of generations, that can't be trusted with knives. You have to realize how freakish that sounds. I realise how freakish you try to turn the things we say... I am saying this - in the simplest terms I can so you get the point. - Knives are important - and have a place in society. - Knives do NOT need to be carried in the street for defense. If anyone takes a knife with them to the pub, they deserve to be locked up... it is asking for trouble to mix drunken people / and deadly items. Cavemen needed to carry their clubs and flints to fight off each other I am sure. Today we should be different. No issue with you owning a knife. and keeping it where you need to use it. You dont need to use it on people - and hence dont need to carry it around in public places. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #38 November 10, 2004 If you are intending to carry a knife as a tool, the Spyderco (albeit a good blade) comes a poor second (in usefulness terms) to Leatherman or Swiss Army type models. If the carry is for self defence, well, as with our numerous gun debates, the Government is not about to admit that it can't protect the people. So thats not going to fly either.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #39 November 10, 2004 Kitchen knives are a pain to carry - a folding blade isn't, that's why there's the legislation against folding but locking blades. (not that kitchen knives wont get carried at some point - but hey, we need those for stuff at home... and it is illegal to cary them around with you). QuoteI'm almost ready to pay you to shut up about the law in your country! Cool - paid vacation. Wohoo! QuoteSo... You support the banning of all but kitchen knives No - see my first post in this topic. I don't see the need for Scotland to change their laws. I think they're fine as they are. I don't think there's any need to ban the ownership of edged weapons in general. It's legal to own them at home but not to carry them around with you. Huge knives have no useful purpose outside the home that a small utility knife does not equally well serve. If you have some special need one day then you have reason on that one day to go get a big knife for the purpose you need it... but that does not give you a mandate to carry it round with you 24/7. I like those laws. They're logical, they don't inhibit law abiding people terribly but they provide police the necessary powers to punish those who do carry large knives with them on the street. If there is no legitimate use for the knife then you can't have it. Why would someone complain about that? If you have a legitimate need for the knife the rule doesn't effect you and if you don't have a legitimate need for the knife then ipso facto - you don't need the knife so why carry it. I don't see any need to change those laws. QuoteThat's funny. Because they're saying (here and abroad) that even though 3 million more people voted for Bush than for Kerry, it doesn't prove that that's what America "wants." Well not me. If Bush won, Bush won - thems the rules. Not only did he win but he got the popular vote too - simple as that. America the country wants Bush to lead them. I'm fine with that... I might have some concerns about what that means for the US and the world in general but if the US wants him who am I to argue with that? Likewise if the UK wants to ban carrying large knives in public who are you to argue with that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #40 November 10, 2004 Quote Tell me... why didn't your anti-blade-carrying laws stop this guy from carrying a sword into a church and starting to swing it? After you answer that question, tell us why a further law prohibiting all but kitchen knives would accomplish anything more. 1. No law stops a looney with intent. Agreed. 2. Prohibiting knives on the street stops the ego seeking youths from escalating violence when they look for trouble. If anyone gets caught with a knife in public - they get in trouble. Works for me. If you had your way.... the sword weilding looney would be allowed into the church with his sword and only be arrested when he actually stabbed someone! (or for public nudity!) In my book that is WAY too late. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingley 0 #41 November 10, 2004 PJ...I seem to remember you giving up and calling for your friend with the stats on the gun thread. You simply couldn't believe how low our gun-death rate was compared to yours. You can give us as many church organ stories as you like, but the facts won't disappear. You're walking around inventing scenarios where you may have to use a weapon of deadly force (like a polling station shoot-out). We're generally getting on with our lives without weapons concealed on our bodies. You say prepared. I say scared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #42 November 10, 2004 QuoteI realise how freakish you try to turn the things we say... I am saying this - in the simplest terms I can so you get the point. - Knives are important - and have a place in society. - Knives do NOT need to be carried in the street for defense. Okay, then I proclaim that since my Spyderco Military, or my Benchmade Mini-Griptilian, are excellent general purpose knives fully apart from having potential self-defense utility, I should not be confronted by the police for carrying them on a daily basis (like I did just this very day). And from where do you claim to derive the authority to declare flat out that knives do not need to be carried on the street for defense? If you already admit that it's for DEFENSE, i.e. "a person is being attacked and is justified, morally and legally, to retaliate with force," why should a KNIFE for that purpose be off-limits? There is every bit of potential that I could run into a guy, or guys, who confront me with knives of their own (illegally carried, of course, for OFFENSE), or even just a few bricks, or pool cues, baseba...sorry, cricket bats... And your attitude is that even for DEFENSE, it would be wrong for me to keep a knife for that purpose on my person. QuoteIf anyone takes a knife with them to the pub, they deserve to be locked up... it is asking for trouble to mix drunken people / and deadly items. Yeah, especially since there are no BOTTLES and POOL CUES with which a person could kill another person at these pubs. See, I'm just glad we now have you on record making very clear that you think non-violent people, who are not doing anyone any harm, who simply are carrying an edged tool, deserve to rot in jail, simply for carrying said tool. I think that is a sick, demented line of thinking. You might as well criminalize the nonviolent possession of gasoline and matches, for all the sense that your position on knives makes. Lock up a guy just for carrying a knife to a pub, indeed. Doesn't matter one whit to you that the guy is not there to cause harm to anyone, or that the only reason he'd take out the knife is for benign utility, or if his life were at stake. As far as mixing drunken people with deadly items, why not compare for us the death potential from pool cues and broken liquor bottles to a 3 inch pocketknife. Those are found in abundance in pubs, yet I have not heard you say that pub managers should be thrown into prison. QuoteCavemen needed to carry their clubs and flints to fight off each other I am sure. Today we should be different. They needed them for a thousand other things, like cutting meat, and skins to wear... And so I keep my knife on me for the myriad daily tasks that can necessitate its use. AND I have it available if I should need it for self defense --although I'm probably more likely to use my GUN for that, since it's easier to escape harm if I don't have to be in arms' reach of my attacker. So differentiate for me, please, the carrying of my Benchmade Mini-Griptilian for non-violent purposes of cutting food and opening packages and cutting cord and rope, and the warding off of physical attack. How can I carry my knife for the former purposes, while not having it be available to me for the latter (even though we are at odds about whether I should be allowed to have it available for the latter). Or is it your position that I should have to give up this nifty little (LOCKblade!) knife for all the domestic utility purposes just because of the potential it has to be used for *gasp* DEFENSE!! QuoteNo issue with you owning a knife. and keeping it where you need to use it. You dont need to use it on people - and hence dont need to carry it around in public places. No, seriously, dude, this really IS an idiotic point. Why on earth should I grant validity to your assertion that I might never come to need a knife for non-defense, utility purposes anywhere but in my home? I can't need it in the car? At work? In the park? I make knot-craft as a hobby, and I do it all over, wherever I happen to be. Should I have the option of making neat cuts with a razor sharp pocketknife only at home, and on the town I should have to cut 550 Paracord with my teeth? Really, if you are trying to make any sense with your arguments here, you are failing miserably. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #43 November 10, 2004 "Tell me... why didn't your anti-blade-carrying laws stop this guy from carrying a sword into a church and starting to swing it?" The same reason as your weapons carrying permits did not protect the 13 victims of the DC sniper, knives, revolvers, or even pointy sticks could not have saved those people. You can't legislate for fucking lunatics.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #44 November 10, 2004 QuoteWhy on earth should I grant validity to your assertion that I might never come to need a knife for non-defense, utility purposes anywhere but in my home? I can't need it in the car? At work? In the park? I make knot-craft as a hobby, and I do it all over, wherever I happen to be. Should I have the option of making neat cuts with a razor sharp pocketknife only at home, and on the town I should have to cut 550 Paracord with my teeth? You can carry a knife for all those reasons in the UK. Just so long as it's not over 3" and has a non-locking blade there's nothing wrong with it. Why would you need anything bigger for general utility purposes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #45 November 10, 2004 Quote You see I just dont agree that carrying a large knife to pull on people when you have the need is right. And thankfully, in this country you would be arrested on the spot. As for PJ's arguement that people would then carry round a kitchen knife - if they were that similar you why dont you both have one of those? Arnt they cheaper but just as effective? The type of knife / gun / macho bollocks that goes into your decision processing regarding self defense just doesnt wash for mainstream people in the UK. Believe me, we in the U.S. that believe in self defense are fully cognizant of the victim mentality currently in fashion in Britain. A shame, really....Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #46 November 10, 2004 Tell you what... I havent carried a kinfe around with me EVER, and I get by just fine opening my packages and eating food. If you live in a forest and hunt rabbits I take it back Quote I make knot-craft as a hobby, and I do it all over, wherever I happen to be I am not even gonna start on why your one-step-off-knitting hobby is a problem Likewise if my hobby was role-play should I be allowed to walk the streets with an axe? Maybe when I go for a night on the town? Say YES to that and it says it all. Quote Really, if you are trying to make any sense with your arguments here, you are failing miserably That is because - if I could snap my fingers and remove all weapons from the world - I would. Whereas with a similar click you would see everyone wearing an ouzi and grenade belt. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingley 0 #47 November 10, 2004 Quote Believe me, we in the U.S. that believe in self defense are fully cognizant of the victim mentality currently in fashion in Britain. A shame, really.... ___________________________________ Sorry, but I'm not clear on your point. Are you suggesting that we don't 'believe' in self-defence? I assume you're not saying that , because it would be silly. And the 'victim mentality'. Who are the victims? I genuinely don't understand your point. There are far, far more 'victims' of violence in the States. They're the ones you should be concerned with, not the military fantasists. I apologise if I've misinterpreted what you're saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #48 November 10, 2004 Quote"Tell me... why didn't your anti-blade-carrying laws stop this guy from carrying a sword into a church and starting to swing it?" The same reason as your weapons carrying permits did not protect the 13 victims of the DC sniper, knives, revolvers, or even pointy sticks could not have saved those people. You can't legislate for fucking lunatics. Then why do you keep trying? -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #49 November 10, 2004 QuoteThat is where the point is - Lawful self defense. In the UK you are allowed to use REASONABLE force to defend yourself. Plunging a serated edge 9" blade just isnt reasonable at all. Your arguement obviously has no basis in reality. Firstly, what is "reasonable" force when the other person is presenting a legitiment threat to your life? Kick them in the shin? Also, the knife I carry has a 3 1/2" blade. Some of the top defense knifes have blades even shorter then that. Oh and there's not much plunging involved, that wouldn't necissarily stop an attacker, there are first some cutting strikes. Its fine that you feel like your laws have taken all the guns off the street and its fine that you think banning knives would take the knives off the street, your obvious lack of awareness is your choice. I just hope you never get attacked by one of those banned guns or soon to be banned knives. Thank god I live in a country that believes in self defense and that god I live in a state that believes in it too. If someone is trying to harm myself or my fiancee they can be shot, if that doesn't work, I can cut them, if that doesn't work, I can use my hands and feet and if that doesn't work...well, they must have been better trained then and I am then dead. That's still better then having no forms of defesne besides your bare hands and ending up dead without a chance.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #50 November 10, 2004 QuoteYou can carry a knife for all those reasons in the UK. Just so long as it's not over 3" and has a non-locking blade there's nothing wrong with it. Why would you need anything bigger for general utility purposes? The knife I carry daily has a blade 3.75" long and locks open. Please explain to me (us), in as great a detail as you can, exactly why this knife, particularly because it has a locking blade, is bad and should be banned, whereas a 3" blade that does not lock should not be. I think that the notion of prohibiting a SAFETY MECHANISM, which is all a lockblade is, is INSANITY. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
