Ground Zero suicide follows post-election despair

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

A man fatally shot himself at Ground Zero of the World Trade Centre in New York, and friends believe the tragic suicide was a political protest against President George W Bush's re-election and the war in Iraq.

The body of Andrew Veal, 25, a university research worker from the southern state of Georgia who was engaged to be married, was found on the site of the September 11 terror attacks yesterday morning, his family and officials said.

Veal didn't leave a note, but those who knew the sensitive young man said he sent a grim message by choosing to end his life where almost 3,000 people perished.

"I'm absolutely sure it's a protest," said Mary Anne Mauney, Veal's supervisor at the University of Georgia survey research lab. "I don't know what made him commit suicide, but where he did it was symbolic."

"I see it as a political statement," agreed co-worker Stacey Sutherland. "He was so opposed to the war."

When Veal failed to show up at work on Wednesday, his pals assumed he was upset that Bush had beaten John Kerry in the race for the White House and was taking a few days off.

"We figured he was just devastated," Mauney said.

But fears for his safety grew when he didn't returns calls from his mother and his fiancee, an Iowa college student who was supposed to meet him in Seattle this weekend for a family wedding.

Hope turned to heartache yesterday when Veal's body was found. He had a head wound and police recovered a shotgun nearby.

"Andy was so anti-violence, I can't even see him holding a gun," Sutherland said.

Mauney said that other than the war and the election, she didn't know what might have been troubling Veal.

"I told his mother there are some people so sensitive and intelligent and passionate they don't belong in the world the way it is today," she said.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jdhill 0]

Wow... If that is actually why he killed himself, you have found something more pathetic than the people who want the "blue states" to succeed or want leave the country because of Bush's victory.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[dreamsville 0]

People will slowly go though a period of reconcilliation as time passes. If you look you can always find someone who is mentally close to the edge to begin with, like the guy in this article. That this happened does not change the fact that people still have the responsibility to run their lives or to seek help. I include myself in the legion of people who have felt they were in despair or needed a hand at some point in their lives.

The story marginalizes itself with its trumped-up sensationalism, regardless of the deceased's motivations.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Dagny 0]

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Andrew Veal, 25, a university research worker from the southern state of Georgia who was engaged to be married

What a shame. A young man with a career and about to start a family. So sad!

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[peregrinerose 0]

It sounds like a good amount of speculation with regard to what his motivation was. But to kill oneself over an election when far more positive options are available (move to canada) is sad. It seems he must have had other issues besides the political one alone.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Jimbo 0]

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But to kill oneself over an election when far more positive options are available (move to canada) is sad.

Given the speculation I think it's also sad to capitalize on his death in a weak attempt to make a political point, or score points in a political debate. I take that back, it's not sad, it's disgusting.

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It seems he must have had other issues besides the political one alone.

Unfortunately that's much less newsworthy.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[storm1977 0]

WHAT, NO LIBERALS HAVE BLAMED BUSH FOR THIS YET????? WOW!!! I am actually surprised!!!

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[pajarito 0]

Stepped in and took one for the team, did he?

I guess it beats moving to France in protest.

[tcnelson 1]

it seems this man had a point to make...i guess you could say it was a hollowpoint!! jez, i crack myself up.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Given the speculation I think it's also sad to capitalize on his death in a weak attempt to make a political point, or score points in a political debate. I take that back, it's not sad, it's disgusting.

Either way it is sad. He took his own life and either didn't cry out for help or no one saw the calls for help. It seems he was trying to make some point by traveling to GZ to kill himself. It shows he did put some thought behind this. Obviously he was going to attract attention just because of the location. He made the choice, the media followed up with it because it is a sensational story.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[rehmwa 2]

Several articles on this one has quotes from acquaintances of the guy. They all talk about how sad the election is and how the suicide is a protest or a 'statement'. This is the pathetic part.

That's really sad how the people he hung with can minimalize his death (or himself even) as being related to something as trivial as politics. That tells us much about the rabid political types as much as anything.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jumperconway 0]

All I can say is what a fucking idiot! If he thought his suicide would make a fucking difference. A Democrat has sunk to a new low. Now if all those actors would fucking leave the the country as they swore they would after the last election, that would make a statement that I would be proud of and good riddance. I would hold a better feeling about the pyscho Hollywooditze that feel like we give a shit what they believe in! They are typically actors with little education and way to much airtime!

[Michele 1]

First, I'm really sorry this guy made this choice. Another life lost to suicide...damn it all to hell.

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That's really sad how the people he hung with can minimalize his death (or himself even) as being related to something as trivial as politics. That tells us much about the rabid political types as much as anything.

Can you say denial? It's far easier to see him as some sort of romantic hero, a martyr, and a political statement than to deal with the reality of suicide. It's far easier to grieve believing that there was a purpose to his death, rather than acknowledge suicide. And it is far easier to blame the political system instead of learning about depression, the suicidal abyss, and what to notice in family and friends who live on that edge.

It's a sad story all around...and made that much sadder by laying blame on a political process instead of seeing an opportunity to educate about suicide, depression and it's fallout.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Ron 7]

That is quite simply pathetic.

Good riddence. He is clearly a troubled mind.

And last I heard we don't know that why he did it...

His wacko friends said it was a political statement...He didn't leave a note....

Still, I don't care if some wacko offs himself since he can't be a man enough to understand his man lost.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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That is quite simply pathetic.

Good riddence. He is clearly a troubled mind.

And better decrease the surplus population?

I feel sorry for this guy and his friends/family. I wish it could have been caught on time. I would never wish this sort of thing on anybody or their family. I don't care what the reasons are, what the motivations are, etc.

This is a bad as Tuna enjoying the illness of Mrs. Kerry because of political reasons

Do you feel this way about all people that commit suicide? We did lose a good skydiving friend this year because of suicide - do you feel the same way about her and her family?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Ron 7]

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And better decrease the surplus population?

where did I say that? I didn't.

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I feel sorry for this guy and his friends/family.

I feel sorry for his family and friends...Not for him..He MADE THE CHOICE. Now if he died in an accident I would feel sorry for him. But if you kill yourself I will not feel sorry for you. You made a choice.

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Do you feel this way about all people that commit suicide?

I feel it is a person right to kill themself if they wish. don't know the pain they are going through....And to claim I do is pandering. If it is the only solution to the problem, and they feel that life is not worth living FOR THEM...Who am I to say they have to live in pain?

It's arrogant to assume you know a what a person is going through....I choose to let them make choices about how much pain is acceptable for them to live through...My level might not be the same as yours.

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We did lose a good skydiving friend this year because of suicide

We didn't lose her...She took herself from us. And yes, I knew people who killed themselves. The woman who lived next door to me killed herself. We had a suicide bounce at my DZ a few years ago. One of my Ex GF's sisters tried to commit suicide.

ALL of these people had pain they didn't want to live with...who am I to tell them they have to live with it?

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do you feel the same way about her and her family?

She made a choice, and I respect her choice...I may not agree with it, but I respect her right to make that choice.....Her family I feel sorry for.

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This is a bad as Tuna enjoying the illness of Mrs. Kerry because of political reasons

Its not my fault this guy was so fucked up in his head that he could not go on. HE choose to kill himself...The reasons you only ASSUME was due to Bush winning....He did not leave a note, or tell anyone.

If that was the reason it is pretty fucked up to off yourself and abandon a fiance and family over 4 years of a guy you don't like.

You see that as sane?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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where did I say that? I didn't.

You said "good riddance." That is different than just not feeling sorry for the person that killed themselves.

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ALL of these people had pain they didn't want to live with...who am I to tell them they have to live with it? She made a choice, and I respect her choice...I may not agree with it, but I respect her right to make that choice.....Her family I feel sorry for.

The issue wasn't you telling anyone how much pain they should live with. Would you tell her family "good riddance" or say she was pathetic as well? Would you tell the fiancee of the dead man the same thing - would you look her in the eye and say "good riddance" to her?

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Its not my fault this guy was so fucked up in his head that he could not go on. HE choose to kill himself...The reasons you only ASSUME was due to Bush winning....He did not leave a note, or tell anyone.

I'm sorry - could you please provide the quote of me saying I assumed he killed himself because of the election? I said it was sad he wasn't able to find the help or ask for the help needed. I also said that no matter what he was looking for attention due to the location of his suicide and that no matter what it would make the news. It was the newspaper and his family that came up with reasons. People that are grieving will try to rationalize the pain, and the media had a field day with their rationalization. I'm going to make a wild guess that his family didn't call the reporters, but instead they called and bugged the family for a response. I never once made this about politics, the title of this thread and the story came from the AP news wire and I just passed it on. I expressed no opinion in the original post.

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You see that as sane?

Again, where did I say that? A violent suicide is never sane (and this is a separate issue from assisted suicide, so please save that for the thread on that) . It's usually an extreme response to outside negative influences or a result of a diseased mind. I've saved a few people from killing themselves by working on a hotline or calling the cops on someone about to do something stupid. There is always a chance to help them get beyond that true moment of despair, if they can get the right help and a sane voice talking/listening to them. It's amazing what compassion can do for the soul. I'll extend a helping hand to anyone.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kelpdiver 2]

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We didn't lose her...She took herself from us. And yes, I knew people who killed themselves. The woman who lived next door to me killed herself. We had a suicide bounce at my DZ a few years ago. One of my Ex GF's sisters tried to commit suicide.

ALL of these people had pain they didn't want to live with...who am I to tell them they have to live with it?

While they may lack the ability to understand or care, bouncing at a DZ is an incredibly rude thing to subject all the other jumpers to. Same for suicide by cop - that guy has to live with pulling the trigger. If one really wants to go, there are better means.

But people so messed up that suicide is the best option really aren't thinking about others, or they're intentionally making sure to inflict their own pain on those around.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

My uncle died this week, and family came in from all over to be with us in south Florida.

Among them was my cousin, of course, and her friend/housemate, a woman named Janet.

Janet works as a detective with the NYPD in Queens, NY. We spoke for a while, and I found her to be a really nice person, actually.

I asked her, during the course of conversation, if she knew anything about the guy who shot himself at the site of the World Trade Center. I mentioned I'd read that he was "upset about the election."

She said, and I have to assume she's heard on the cop grapevine or something, that HE DID NOT KILL HIMSELF OVER THE ELECTION. SHE MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT HOW HE HAD A FAMILY IN ONE PLACE AND A GIRLFRIEND IN ANOTHER, or something like that. (I'm admittedly short on details.)

All I know is that she told me that the cops already know that it was not a despondency over/protest of the re-election of G.W. Bush.

Of course, why would newspapers bother to correct the original misinformation and make themselves look like they are stupid, irresponsible journalists who jumped the gun? They'll just figure that most people will never find out that there was more to the story, and everyone persists in their belief that the news always gets it more or less right.

I have seen NO NEW stories locally here in Florida about the real story that Janet recounted.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[quade 3]

So, the word of a friend of a cousin who heard something on the grapevine is more credible in your view?

BTW, it was the family of the man that had mentioned the election connection.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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So, the word of a friend of a cousin who heard something on the grapevine is more credible in your view?

BTW, it was the family of the man that had mentioned the election connection.

I didn't say it was hard and fast evidence or proof, now did I?

I'm saying that a woman I met, who is my cousin's best friend, is a cop in NYC, and said that after the INITIAL suspicion that the election was the motivation for his suicide, it has come to light that the guy was having stress in his life due to trying to maintain two "different lives." I can see that being a deciding factor.

What I can't figure out is why the gun laws in New York City didn't prevent him from having and using a gun there...

I thought the point of gun laws was to keep them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them, and NYC has some of the strictest gun laws around!

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[quade 3]

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I thought the point of gun laws was to keep them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them, and NYC has some of the strictest gun laws around!

It's probably the same cruel ironic God that gives the most liberal marriage law state the lowest divorce rates (Mass.) and a few of the most conservative that just passed laws "protecting" marriage as having the highest.

http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html

Irony is a bitch.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[crwtom 0]

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People will slowly go though a period of reconcilliation as time passes.
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That's what everyone said in 2000 - never happened

it got worse, despite reassurances of "great uniters",
"compassionate conservatives" and lost popular
votes.

Extrapolating from this, given the past election, there's
not much reason for optimism. Division may get so
bad it'll paralyze the nation.

Cheers

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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People will slowly go though a period of reconcilliation as time passes.
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That's what everyone said in 2000 - never happened

it got worse, despite reassurances of "great uniters",
"compassionate conservatives" and lost popular
votes.

Ya gotta be kidding me. It was all on the backs of the conservatives to make the peace, huh?

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Extrapolating from this, given the past election, there's
not much reason for optimism. Division may get so
bad it'll paralyze the nation.

I agree with the prediction, but I feel it's going to be because the disgruntled losing democrats will simply pout and be petulant and obstructionist simply because they're indignant about losing.

The nation spoke, people. Not only did it re-elect a conservative president, it increased the number of conservative (i.e. Republican) representatives in both houses of Congress. This kind of thing does not happen "despite the overwhelming wish of the country to adopt liberal policies," as they are trying to characterize it. Leftists are painting it out as though somehow control of the country was stolen from them -- as though with a bit of sleight-of-hand, conservatives could have rigged the huge number of elections they won to go in their favor. The conspiracy shrieks of the left are reaching into the schizophrenic range of the spectrum lately.

The left will not meet the right anywhere near half-way, because they still insist that although they are not in the majority, they should get to set policy as though they were. Sorry, folks. To lose is to NOT get to call the shots! Get on board or move to some country you think is so ideal. I am not saying, "Get out if you don't like it." I'm saying that those seem to be the only two options.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Ron 7]

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I'm sorry - could you please provide the quote of me saying I assumed he killed himself because of the election?

How about the title of your thread?

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Ground Zero suicide follows post-election despair

Seems pretty clear to me.

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I never once made this about politics, the title of this thread and the story came from the AP news wire and I just passed it on. I expressed no opinion in the original post.

Yeah, we had no idea what you were trying to do.
You posted this as an example of a leader of the Dems....

Sad really, you and the "friends" are using a guys death as a way to voice and push your agenda.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334