And Bush says no draft??? What do you call this?

[dorbie 0]

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Yes, others in DC said stuff about Iraq - however Bush is the one that pulled the trigger on going to war.

Yes, that's one of the main reasons so many people voted for him. Other people perceive these events differently from you. They actually *agree* with the decision to go to war as did the majority of the population at the time. I might add that they also appreciate Bush's consistency on the issue, they even remember what they were thinking at the time and what their leaders were saying.

As for going on TV and saying he hasn't made one mistake, it was actually in response to a reporter's question in a news conference at a time when the media was clamoring to pin something on him. The reporter asked him to cite one mistake, an obvious and transparent trap. He should have deflected the question but he shouldn't have thrown the reporter the bone everyone on the left wanted him to. It's not a matter of claiming infallibility, it's a matter of avoiding a political stunt from a partisan hack.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Yes, that's one of the main reasons so many people voted for him.

And why almost just as many voted against him. The country is still split.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[dorbie 0]

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Yes, that's one of the main reasons so many people voted for him.

And why almost just as many voted against him. The country is still split.

It seems a lot less split than it was 4 years ago, or even after many recent elections. Some folks passions are running high though, I think that's a fair observation but we heard statements about leaving the country the first time Bush ran. I think it's a symptom of the left believing their own propaganda. It's unfortunate, it's going to make a lot of people miserable for at least 4 years.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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It seems a lot less split than it was 4 years ago, or even after many recent elections. Some folks passions are running high though, I think that's a fair observation but we heard statements about leaving the country the first time Bush ran. I think it's a symptom of the left believing their own propaganda. It's unfortunate, it's going to make a lot of people miserable for at least 4 years.

It may "seem" that way but take a look at differnt polls out there. Bush's approval rating before the election was one of the lowest he had yet. In March of 2003 70 percent or so (IIRC) were for an invasion, and last time I checked over 50 percent had changed their opinion on the war and felt that we went in for the wrong reasons.

The country is split. What really cracks me up is Bush's speech that he will unify the country - and in the next sentance says he will do it by getting them on board to his way of thinking. lol

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[dorbie 0]

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It may "seem" that way but take a look at differnt polls out there.

"Seem" has got nothing to do with it. We had an election, the results are in and it is clear cut, we can compare results with 2000 and arrive at well founded conclusions.

What cracks me up is thoughts of the arguments you'd be putting forward if Kerry had won Ohio and the presidency on a minority of the popular vote. Split wouldn't be in your vocabulary.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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It may "seem" that way but take a look at differnt polls out there.

"Seem" has got nothing to do with it. We had an election, the results are in and it is clear cut, we can compare results with 2000 and arrive at well founded conclusions.

What cracks me up is thoughts of the arguments you'd be putting forward if Kerry had won Ohio and the presidency on a minority of the popular vote. Split wouldn't be in your vocabulary.

Go back two posts, "seem" is the word you used.

Yup, Kerry was just 100k votes or so from winning the White House if he picked up Ohio. No matter which way you spin it - the country is split.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ChileRelleno 0]

Yep, he sure did, he had the balls to do what the others only sta around full of bluff and bravado talking about. Ya know Kerry and alot of others did more than talk camly about it, they made speeches, loudly proclaiming how dangerous these WMD's were and how "Something" needed "Had" to be done about them. They had been doing saying these things about SH/Iraq since well before Gulf War 1, well some folks do more than talk, some peolpe, we call them leaders, have the gumption to make the call, to take action when others just talk about it.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[lewmonst 0]

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how dangerous these WMD's were

what WMD's?


peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[dorbie 0]

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Yup, Kerry was just 100k votes or so from winning the White House if he picked up Ohio. No matter which way you spin it - the country is split.

You maintaining that the country is more split today than 4 years ago despite the numerical evidence and the lack of a prolonged recount is spin.

You made an accurate observation on votes in Ohio but it applies equally well to Bush winning even more states elsewhere. When you say split I always assumed you were referring to the plurality that Bush won. Elections in the US can always be boiled down to a few votes in swing states, that's the nature of the electoral college. If you're talking about the electoral college now then Bush won even more handily.

It is interesting that American elections match American sporting events in that the rules are rigged to bring it down to the wire. The closest states are always called last and it always seems like there's a few thousand votes in it even when one of the candidates gets a spanking. In this case Ohio should have been called hours before it was but OK it was close. I look forward to 2-4 years of "close" votes in the house and senate.

[wmw999 2,123]

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When you say split I always assumed you were referring to the plurality that Bush won

No, I doubt that's what he meant. Split as in divided, with each side accentuating differences rather than similiarities; with the side with the power saying "we have the power -- you are welcome to do whatever we want and call it cooperation;" with the side with less power sniping, and with each side calling each other stupid.

Politics at the national and bigger state level seems to be more and more about establishing and maintaining power than about identifying problems which actually need national attention, and then finding solutions which keep more than your own buddies happy.

Split is rejoicing that you have the majority now and don't have to listen to the minority any more. It's about saying someone else is irrelevant.

That's split and divisive.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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When you say split I always assumed you were referring to the plurality that Bush won

No, I doubt that's what he meant. Split as in divided, with each side accentuating differences rather than similiarities; with the side with the power saying "we have the power -- you are welcome to do whatever we want and call it cooperation;" with the side with less power sniping, and with each side calling each other stupid.

Politics at the national and bigger state level seems to be more and more about establishing and maintaining power than about identifying problems which actually need national attention, and then finding solutions which keep more than your own buddies happy.

Split is rejoicing that you have the majority now and don't have to listen to the minority any more. It's about saying someone else is irrelevant.

That's split and divisive.

Wendy W.

Exactly.

There are two very diverse schools of thought in this country. Those that want war, those that don't. Those that want faith based constitutional decisions, and those that don't. Etc.

With the current administration, nearly half of those that voted no longer have a voice or true representation. In fact, religion is being forced down their throats, despite what their own faith and beliefs may be. The ironic part about that? That is the same reasons the Pilgrims for came to this country. Guess we have come full circle

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[dorbie 0]

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Split is rejoicing that you have the majority now and don't have to listen to the minority any more. It's about saying someone else is irrelevant.

That's split and divisive.

Yea Bush should announce he's gonna reach out to work with the other side. Oh wait he did that and you attacked him.

He should have worked with you guys last term on common issues to gain credibility in magnanimous cooperation. Oh wait he did that.

Well he should have tried to change the tone in D.C. Oh wait, he did that and even kept Clinton appointees and you've been calling him and half the country idiots for four years and the appointees stabbed him in the back just before the elections with lying expository books.

If there's a split it's caused by the radicalization of the left by partisan bile like Moore's film.

Your arguments are just more of the partisan nonsense we've had for 4 years attempting to delegitimize Bush as a leader. Like I said if you'd won split wouldn't be in your vocabulary. Look at what happened when Ross Perot shut out Bush, Clinton got in & did as he pleased. Now you're waffling on about a split with an absolutely clear majority.

It's laughable, and the fact is the side with a majority doesn't have to listen as much to the other party for now. It's Democrats who need to reach out instead of constantly attacking the President, but I doubt we'll see that. I don't get to vote in the US and I'm not a citizen, but the antics of the left here are downright hillarious when it comes to accepting a valid election result.

Admit it, you miss the manufactured ambiguity of 4 years ago and this talk of a split is just a symptom of your yearning for it.

[dorbie 0]

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There are two very diverse schools of thought in this country. Those that want war, those that don't.

What!

Newsflash, Kerry wasn't opposed to the war in the end (he took several positions). Where would your representation have been with Kerry? Kerry claimed he would fight a more effective war. Maybe you should have voted Libertarian or Green Party.

Many Kerry voters were not opposed to the war hence Kerry's calculated position of sticking at it, you co-opting them all to your side of the "split" on your pet issues is just another falsehood among many.

[billvon 2,400]

Stop calling CBS a liar.
(warning)

[tunaplanet 0]

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There are two very diverse schools of thought in this country. Those that want war, those that don't.

Negative. There are about half a dozen schools of thought beyond your two. Wanna take a stab on what they are?

Think outside the box.

Forty-two

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Yea Bush should announce he's gonna reach out to work with the other side. Oh wait he did that and you attacked him.

You are kidding, right? Bush said he would try to mend the rift by getting the liberals to see it his way. lol Diplomacy in action.

btw - I never said Kerry stood for what I beleived in. What I do know is that he may have tried to find common ground with the citizens he represents, instead of telling them that he knows better.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[tunaplanet 0]

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What I do know is that he may have tried to find common ground with the citizens he represents

No. He only wanted to do that with other countries...voila the permission slip he wanted to propose to the UN when we get attacked...aka Global Test.

Forty-two

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Think outside the box.

You should take your own advice.

There are two major schools of thoughts on the war. Some say black, others say white. Within each group there are variations. I've listened and heard what all sides have said - have you?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[dorbie 0]

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Stop calling CBS a liar.
(warning)

My chosen use of word, from the dictionary:

falsehood: Lack of conformity to truth or fact; inaccuracy

I never called anyone a liar. If I can't post reasonable observations without intimidation I'd rather not post at all.

I pointed out a clear falsehood here in terms anyone can understand, the latest of many.

Bye.

[tunaplanet 0]

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There are two major schools of thoughts on the war.

Funny, I don't fall under either of your so called two schools of thought. I also served with many men who wouldn't fall under your schools of thought.

Anything else I can debunk?

Forty-two

[jdhill 0]

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nearly half of those that voted no longer have a voice or true representation. In fact, religion is being forced down their throats, despite what their own faith and beliefs may be.

Welcome to the Bazarro World's version of the Clinton Years!

You say religion is being forced down your thoat... How exactly? Are you being pulled from your bed to go to church or Sunday school? Are Blue laws coming back? NO.

Is it the gay marriage thing? A Constitutional Amendment has little if any chance of passing 2/3rds of the House, 2/3rds of the Senate, and 3/4ths of State legislatures.

Is it abortion? There are a lot of people, from different religions, who think it is murder. There are some people who think its OK to perform medical procedures on minors without notifying the parents, or partially deliver a baby, that could otherwise survive outside the whom, and scramble its brain or break its airway... Others feel this is not healthy for our society... its not religion, its morals that should transcend any organized religion...

Is it providing funding to faith based charitable organizations? Organizations that are not from any one religion, but many... Organizations that do not deliver their services based on religion... Organizations who are in the community, and can deliver services more efficiently than the federal government...

Religion is being forced down throat, huh? I don't go to church with any great frequency, and am generally appalled by most of the organized religions... I don't feel like its being forced down my throat at all.

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That's split and divisive.

It takes two sides to have a split... there are differences, sure. Many of them began with Clinton's little Oval Office romp... But if the Dems are going to sit in the corner and pout in stead of trying to come up with some sort of agenda to work for, then they deserve to get run over for the next several years.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[billvon 2,400]

Two warnings in two days, and an explanation of why you think it's OK to call CBS a liar (or, should I say, 'observe that he posts clear falsehoods'.)

>If I can't post reasonable observations without intimidation I'd rather not post at all.

If you prefer to not follow the rules (they are on a clicky on the top of the page) then not posting is a good call on your part.

[dgskydive 0]

It's not a draft. THere is an 8 year obligation fro everyone that ever joined the Military. Meaning if you sign up for 4 years and then get out. You still owe them for the next 4 years if they call you up.

I am willing to bet that there is a clause in there somewhere that states they can call you back even after your 8 years are done, if your skills are needed for national security reasons. I am guessing here. Him being a POL driver, makes him very attractive to the Military.

Not agreeing with what they are trying to do to him, but it is not a draft. This is a very different situation.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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we're concerned with what he's going to do now that there are practically no political repercussions for him.

Bush didn't do this to this guy. You guys are going to try and pin anything on him. This is either a very bad mix up , or some obscure clause in the enlistment papers that all the Military signs when we join up.

Ridiculous to blame the President for something like this. Did Bush make up the enlistment contracts that people sign when they join the Military? I bet it is a mistake made by some clerk when they typed in his date of enlistment, or they typed in the wrong date on his release from inactive duty. You guys are grasping at straws here.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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they can keep you as long as they feel they need you.

Yes they can. When we went to the first Gulf War we had a guy that was 2 months away from retirement. They slapped a stop loss on him. He went with us to Saudi.

A few months later they decided they didn't need his MOS that bad. They let him go home. He had a heart attack on the flight home from Saudi and died on the plane!

WE also had a guy from our unit that got out about 2 months before the invasion of Kuwait. After I was over there and one my way home, I ran into him over there. They had called him back and he had been there just as long as I had. He only had 6 months left on his service requirment when they called him back. Even failed a drug test before they called him back.

Dom