Mandatory Birth Control

[Treejumps 0]

Hi Quade,

I agree, so long as I do not have to pay for it. A person's right to reproduce ends at the point at which they cannot pay for their offspring. Why do you beleive that people have the right to create others that they obviously have no means to support or any ability to raise?

[livendive 8]

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Fortunately, the solution is simple. If you are supported by the government through welfare, man or women, you must be Norplanted, or whatever other BC can be used to guarantee you can't reproduce.

Man or woman? So you're suggesting mandatory vasectomies for the men? Will you apply this to industries that rely on government welfare as well (e.g. steel, agriculture, airlines, etc)?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[diablopilot 2]

You got my vote.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[quade 3]

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A person's right to reproduce ends at the point at which they cannot pay for their offspring.

So says you.

Fortunately for most of the world, you're not in charge of that decision.

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Why do you beleive that people have the right to create others that they obviously have no means to support or any ability to raise?

Because it is a human, biological right. Just like the right to eat, sleep and breathe.

Look, I fully support population control and think the world would be better off with far fewer people on it, but it is inhuman to force people to not reproduce.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[livendive 8]

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If you get a welfare check, you are not allowed to make another welfare sucking human being. Simple. If you can't pay for your offspring, you should not be allowed to reproduce. Thre is nothing that says you have the right to reproduce at the expense of others. Why should stupid people be encouraged to reproduce? Anything you subsidize, you will get more of. Let Darwin have his way. If people who are too dumb or too lazy to pay for their own way, so be it, but don't pay them to create more of the same.

My mother has never worked a day of my life. She has collected welfare and/or social security for the last 35 years. I got my first job at age 14 and have never collected welfare. I did get two unemployment checks last year during a 1-month lag between jobs, but the combined total of those checks was less than I pay in taxes each month. Am I an anomaly that should have been prevented through mandatory birth control? Am I a "welfare sucking human being" or "too dumb or too lazy to pay for [my] own way"? Should I have been given a mandatory vasectomy during that month of unemployment?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[diablopilot 2]

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but ONLY if free birth control of the parents' choice is available at no charge to make this a feasable option.

While I personaly would LOVE to see a govement funded program to offer free methods of birth control (perhapse funded throug eliminating an overly wasteful welfare program), I don't agree with your requirement be in place before sanctions against welfare parents are levied.

People don't get pregnant because of a lack of birth control products. They get pregnent from fucking.

To show yet another example of our twisted society, in one of the neigborhoods I used to have one of my resturaunts in had a large billboard. It advertised sterilizations for anyone who was adicted to drugs, on welfare, or on the streets. They would even pay you $400 to have the procedure.

The billboard lasted about a month. Later when I became interested and looked into what happened, I found out a rather wealthy individual set up this program, and then had to shut it down under threat of lawsuit by the ACLU. WTF?

It was claimed the the program prayed on peoples weaknesses. Who gives a rats ass? They were adults, leagaly able to make a decision for themselves. If $400 was too big a lure for them, then I'm probably better off with them sterilized.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

Fascism:
a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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The government may have an interest in promoting birth control, it has no business whatsoever mandating to people that they may or may not reproduce at whatever point in time they choose to do so.

Then I say the goverment has no business suporting people who have the ability to work. The also have no business suporting people who intentionaly INCREASE the drain on already streached resources.

Eliminate welfare. Limited unemployment INSURANCE (as it is called) is acceptable.

Welfare needs to be revampled into a labor pool. Want welfare? Work. Be a clerk, be a trash man, paint curbs, remove grafiti...whatever but stop giving it away for free.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[quade 3]

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Welfare needs to be revampled into a labor pool. Want welfare? Work. Be a clerk, be a trash man, paint curbs, remove grafiti...whatever but stop giving it away for free.

I have no issue with a WPA type of progam.

That has nothing to do with the issue being discussed here though.

I am curious about one thing though, when the welfare mother is off removing graffitti and picking up trash, who's looking after the kids? Would there be a state sponsored day care?

BTW, your plan comes pretty close to what they used to have in the old Soviet Union with babushkas sweeping streets. Not that I'm against it, but it seems to me like you might want to look at other places this has been tried.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Falko 0]

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Fascism:
a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

Correct definition!

I was not very precise in using "Fascism" as a buzzword, what I meant is "the ideology of the fascist regime of the 3rd Reich."

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[PhillyKev 0]

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Do any of you have a better idea?

Yeah, how about addressing the problems of the poor whle they are children so that when they grow up they aren't as likely to be on welfare. For instance educating them and stopping the war on drugs that devastates poor communities. Stop outsourcing jobs oversees. And promote a livable wage for working the bottom of the rung jobs so that is more attractive than welfare.

Of course none of these are options in a republican controlled gov't, so yeah, forced sterilization is a much better idea.

Republican agenda....We force you to carry a child to term against your wishers, or force sterilization upon you. All based upon our superior moral beliefs and/or the effect on our wallets.

[diablopilot 2]

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I am curious about one thing though, when the welfare mother is off removing graffitti and picking up trash, who's looking after the kids?

Hmmm sounds like a problem the RESPONSIBLE PARENT would have to figure out.

We were not wealthy growing up, both my parents worked their asses off (one on days, the other nights) AND put them selves through college while raising 3 kids. They never took any suport from the goverment other than the yearly tax break for dependants (yes, they were PAYING taxes, not sucking off them).

On the occasions when they both had to work or something else came up, we stayed with a babysitter. Nice friend of the family, who was retired and could use a little extra money since here SS benifits barely suported her.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[peregrinerose 0]

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While I personaly would LOVE to see a govement funded program to offer free methods of birth control (perhapse funded throug eliminating an overly wasteful welfare program), I don't agree with your requirement be in place before sanctions against welfare parents are levied.

People don't get pregnant because of a lack of birth control products. They get pregnent from fucking.

I agree. However, my reasoning is because if the free birth control program was already in place, there would be absolutely no excuse for whining if they pop a kid and have benefits cut back. There can not be any lawsuits saying 'I was on welfare so couldn't afford birth control, now I can't afford to take care of my children.' If BC is free, this is a non-arguement.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[diablopilot 2]

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I was not very precise in using "Fascism" as a buzzword, what I meant is "the ideology of the fascist regime of the 3rd Reich."

Thought so.

Technicaly you could have some peoples version of Utopia in a Facist goverment.

Me, I'm more about Anarchy, Utopian Anarchy to be exact, but I'm a bit of a romantic in that respect I guess....

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[winsor 187]

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Fascism:
a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

Correct definition!

I was not very precise in using "Fascism" as a buzzword, what I meant is "the ideology of the fascist regime of the 3rd Reich."

FWIW, Mussolini was the author of the concept of Fascism (tm), and the name was applied in generic form to a variety of other similar political systems.

IIRC, fascia are the bundles sticks beside the throne that represent the power to punish. Mussolini apparently liked the idea, and thus coined the phrase.

The NSDAP, FWIW, laid claim to "socialism" as its basis. Regardless of how they labeled themselves,
"a rose by any other name...."


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Falko 0]

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IIRC, fascia are the bundles sticks beside the throne that represent the power to punish.

Didn't know that, don't speak Italian. So I learned at least something in this thread full of outdated ideology. Thanks

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The NSDAP, FWIW, laid claim to "socialism" as its basis.

Yup, hence the "S" in "NSDAP".

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Regardless of how they labeled themselves,
"a rose by any other name...."

We label them "Nazis" and "Fascists". There's only a handful of them left, and they *still* suck!

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[Nightingale 0]

If you knew a woman who had a total of 8 children, several who had died shortly after birth, and she had tuberculosis, would you mandate she take birth control?


If so, you may have prevented the birth of Beethoven.


you never know how people's lives will turn out.

[ChileRelleno 0]

I'm with you Treejumps, too many mouths suckling at the government tit.
I'm all for "rules", if we're going to help you (welfare recipient) then you have to play by our rules and learn to help yourself (get educated, learn a skill and get a job).
Major problems with our current systems need to revised/corrected ASAP!!!
If a person is ablebodied, they should be working to support themselves and their children... PERIOD!

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[wmw999 2,150]

It's way against everything we consider to be part of "pursuit of happiness" to mandate that.

Offering birth control for free to anyone one welfare is not. Neither is offering it to anyone who walks into a public health clinic.

I'm kinda for workfare, too. With some of the workfare being the day-care centers, with education for new, young mothers, included. The more we can up the skill sets of people who don't have any, the more chance they have of actually being equipped to take advantage of an opportunity sometime.

But that's just if I were queen. Of course, if I were queen, it'd be considered rude to call people who disagree with you names like "idiot, stupid, nazi, fuckwad" or anything else like that
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Nightingale 0]

are you planning on providing day care for those kids while their parents "get educated?" Baby sitters and day care are damn expensive. I don't know many students who could afford it, myself included, if I had kids. If I had kids, I certainly wouldn't be in law school without a lot of support, which is something many people don't have.

[Rebecca 0]

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If you knew a woman who had a total of 8 children, several who had died shortly after birth, and she had tuberculosis, would you mandate she take birth control?

If so, you may have prevented the birth of Beethoven.

you never know how people's lives will turn out.

Yeah, but the Beethovens weren't poor. We're not talking about preventing the birth of the next artistic genius, we're talking about parents being responsible enough not to breed beyond their existing economic limitations. If you can afford it, have yourself a passle. If not, just have one or two children.

I hear it's actually becoming a status symbol to be able to afford four or more kids and still send them all to exclusive private schools and expensive colleges.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[quade 3]

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I hear it's actually becoming a status symbol to be able to afford four or more kids and still send them all to exclusive private schools and expensive colleges.

Lemme tell ya . . . it's people like that I'd like to see sterilized.

Using children as a status symbol is . . . just sick.

These aren't puppies, they're human beings.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Sebastian1 0]

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IIRC, fascia are the bundles sticks beside the throne that represent the power to punish. Mussolini apparently liked the idea, and thus coined the phrase.
----



it's Latin originated: fasces (-ium)
a bundle of rods/fasces as sign for omnipotence of emperor

[Nightingale 0]

Beethoven's family has been described as poor.

"THE Shakespeare of the realm of music, as he has been called, first saw the light on December 16, 1770, in the little University town of Bonn, on the Rhine. His father, Johann Beethoven, belonged to the court band of the Elector of Cologne. The family were extremely poor. The little room, where the future great master was born, was so low, that a good-sized man could barely stand upright in it. Very small it was too, and not very light either, as it was at the back of the building and looked out on a walled garden."
-Masters of Music, 1922

[crozby 0]

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My mother has never worked a day of my life. She has collected welfare and/or social security for the last 35 years. I got my first job at age 14 and have never collected welfare. I did get two unemployment checks last year during a 1-month lag between jobs, but the combined total of those checks was less than I pay in taxes each month. Am I an anomaly that should have been prevented through mandatory birth control? Am I a "welfare sucking human being" or "too dumb or too lazy to pay for [my] own way"? Should I have been given a mandatory vasectomy during that month of unemployment?

To answer your questions: No.

But if your mother was able to work and simply decided not to then I would be unhappy that the government was forcing me to pay tax to fund her chosen lifestyle.