ChasingBlueSky 0 #26 November 3, 2004 QuoteI agree with treejumps and pajarito. The people voted and the majority doesn't support gay marriage. Gay people have no more right to marry each other. Ah, so it's ok for the majoriy to supress a minority. Pious people that want to enforce their version of reality on someone else are in the same cateegory as those that violently try to shape the world to their religious views (ie, terrorists)_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #27 November 3, 2004 QuotePious people that want to enforce their version of reality on someone else are in the same cateegory as those that violently try to shape the world to their religious views (ie, terrorists) And that is why I call the ACLU Terrorists sorry off subject. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #28 November 3, 2004 QuoteQuotePious people that want to enforce their version of reality on someone else are in the same cateegory as those that violently try to shape the world to their religious views (ie, terrorists) And that is why I call the ACLU Terrorists sorry off subject. Back to the topic at hand - its ok to supress a minority? Yes or no?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunman 0 #29 November 3, 2004 QuoteThe reason a male cannot marry another male, is the same reason that a pig cannot fly. No a pig cannot fly because it is impossible. Two people of the same gender can have a life-long monogomous relationship though, and many do. The fact that there are those who want to keep them from defining their relationship as marriage does not mean it does not exist. It is what it is. It is a marriage by all definitions that are not influenced by religion. It is amazing to me that people don't see that this is a civil rights issue and history will ultimately not look kindly upon this kind of injustice, just like we look at segregation today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #30 November 3, 2004 Yes when it goes against the principals of the nation and is deemed "for the greater good". ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #31 November 3, 2004 So, who are you to decide? Why is it you are right and I am wrong? What enlightenment have you had that I have not? Please answer... I answered you. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #32 November 3, 2004 The wording in Ohio also eliminated Civil unions and Domestic Partners. You my no longer ger health or other benifits for anyone else unless you are bound by marriage now. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #33 November 3, 2004 QuoteYes when it goes against the principals of the nation and is deemed "for the greater good". Yep, it's a shame we couldn't keep those uppity coloreds from getting equality. Then we'd really have utopia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #34 November 3, 2004 Quote What I think you fail to realize is the difference in the population of gays vs other minority groups. It wouldn't be "Normal...."Oh, do tell. What is the difference? QuoteAnyway, do you think it is OK to marry your sister, or brother?Absolutely. No problem at all. (Except I really don't find my brother or my sisters remotely attractive QuoteDo you think it is OK to have 4 wives? 10 wives? or 10 Husbands? Sure, I have no problem with that either. QuoteIf so why? If not, Why not?I can see no reason why any loving union should not be allowed to be expressed via the vehicle of marriage. QuoteAll these things listed above are alternative lifestyles. If we allow one, a president will be set to allow others. That sounds pretty ideal to me. QuoteNo one says a gay couple can't live together and be happy. No one said John Doe can't have 10 girlfriends living with him and have big orgies everynight. No one said that. However, the Government doesn't have to recognize that as a legally binding "marriage".Well, in my opinion, I can't see why any loving union should be denied the right to marriage. QuoteMarriage is a privledge give to you by the State Gov. Just like driving is. Your driving license application can be turned down as can your marriage license if you fail to follow the rules of the state gov. Marriage isn't a right.... So NO ONE RIGHTS are being taken away!!!Um, using the analogy of a driving licence, homosexual couples should then have the right to apply and be considered for a marriage license just as hetrosexual couples are. See what I mean? It is my opinion that to treat any section of humanity in an inequal (unequal? Never sure) way is discrimination and therefore immoral.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #35 November 3, 2004 QuoteSo, who are you to decide? Why is it you are right and I am wrong? Slave owners used to say the same thing. I am not taking any right from you or anyone else. I would never dream of it. I do not want to deny any privledge, benefit, etc that I already have from anyone else. I want the same for all of my fellow citizens. Apparently some Americans are better than others and feel they can pass judgement and remove rights from some and yet keep them for themselves. Quote What enlightenment have you had that I have not? Because I believe in true American freedom. Denying someone a priledge because of religious conviction is the same as denying someone religion._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #36 November 3, 2004 Gays do have the right to apply for a marriage license. They will be turned down, however, because they do not qualify. BTW- as far as your answers to my questions.... WTF. Where do you live? Please ... stay away from my family. I think your beliefs are a bit out there....(My opinion of course) I think about 95% of the population would agree that your views on this topic are dangerous to this country. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #37 November 3, 2004 QuoteSlave owners used to say the same thing. I am not taking any right from you or anyone else. I would never dream of it. I do not want to deny any privledge, benefit, etc that I already have from anyone else. I want the same for all of my fellow citizens. Apparently some Americans are better than others and feel they can pass judgement and remove rights from some and yet keep them for themselves. In Reply To What enlightenment have you had that I have not? Because I believe in true American freedom. Denying someone a priledge because of religious conviction is the same as denying someone religion. I love that argument!! Slaves vs Gays ..... (Apples and Oranges) Slaves weren't given their constitutional rights. Gays are. Again incase you missed it, MARRIAGE ISN'T a RIGHT. End of argument. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #38 November 3, 2004 Do Blind People Have The RIGHT to Drive in New York? No. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #39 November 3, 2004 QuoteGays do have the right to apply for a marriage license. They will be turned down, however, because they do not qualify.But as human beings they should have the right to qualify. See? QuoteBTW- as far as your answers to my questions.... WTF.Oh, I'll explain, I have no issue with anyone, anyone at all, expressing their loving union in the form of marriage. Its equality. QuoteWhere do you live? Please ... stay away from my family. I think your beliefs are a bit out there....(My opinion of course) I think about 95% of the population would agree that your views on this topic are dangerous to this country.Um, that's pretty offensive to say that I would harm your family, my opinion that all human beings have the right to be treated equally isn't dangerous to anyone.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave114 0 #40 November 3, 2004 You and your boyfriend can go to a lawyer and draw up any agreement you want. You can publicly declare your love for each other, and have any kind of ceremony you want. You can even move in next door, I dont care. But you can't be married because that's not what marraige is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #41 November 3, 2004 Quote You and your boyfriend can go to a lawyer and draw up any agreement you want. You can publicly declare your love for each other, and have any kind of ceremony you want. You can even move in next door, I dont care. But you can't be married because that's not what marraige is. Um, what is marriage? Not trying to provoke anything, just asking.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #42 November 3, 2004 QuoteAgain incase you missed it, MARRIAGE ISN'T a RIGHT. Why, because you say so? Everything is a right unless there is a law specifically restricting it. That's what our constitution and society is based on. Now there is a law restricting gay marriage, which takes away that right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #43 November 3, 2004 QuoteSlaves weren't given their constitutional rights. Gays are. Again incase you missed it, MARRIAGE ISN'T a RIGHT. End of argument. AH, see. It is a right. Some Americans have it, others don't. That is the end of the Argument right there. I don't care about your opinion on this, in fact, I don't care about ANYONES opinion on this....including my own. This has nothing to do with religion or moral beliefs!! Opinions DO NOT MATTER IN THIS ARGUMENT!!! This has to do with denying an AMERICAN CITIZEN a right that the rest of this country has. I'll copy this over from a post I made last night: There is that term "political correctness" something that gets tossed out there when someone is showing they are afraid of their own opinion on something. A red flag for a closed mind. Paradigm. Look up the definition of that word. We need to change the paradigm around marriage. It has nothing to do with reproduction or marriage. That is what religion tells you what it is all about. So, which religion gets to make that choice? There isn't one religion that represents EVERY American, therefore you cannot use just one to force that choice upon the country. No. It is very fair comparing it to slavery. You had a bunch of ignorant, fat men that didn't want to pay for labor or do a real day of work. Plus, their African slaves became objects to them and they argued that slaves couldn't be educated, could pass on disease, and a thousand other ill-formed ignorant opinions. That paradigm was forced upon the public and it rapidly became alright to think about it ok by the masses. I'm sure the cotton famers claimed that Lincoln was just being politically correct by trying to free the slaves and to give them rights the rest of the country had. Just like with women - how many years were they not allowed to vote and how many men claimed that people were just trying to be politically correct by giving them the voting right men had._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #44 November 3, 2004 QuoteUm, that's pretty offensive to say that I would harm your family, my opinion that all human beings have the right to be treated equally isn't dangerous to anyone. Well, IMO your views are dangerous to society. You say Incest is OK. You say Polygamy is OK. You Probably think NAMBLA is OK. Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you think drugs should be legal and everyone has the right to do what ever they want.... Am I close? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #45 November 3, 2004 Actually, no you can't draw up an agreement anymore since the wording in a few states specifically prohibits that type of activity.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #46 November 3, 2004 QuoteQuoteSlaves weren't given their constitutional rights. Gays are. Again incase you missed it, MARRIAGE ISN'T a RIGHT. End of argument. AH, see. It is a right. Some Americans have it, others don't. That is the end of the Argument right there. I don't care about your opinion on this, in fact, I don't care about ANYONES opinion on this....including my own. This has nothing to do with religion or moral beliefs!! Opinions DO NOT MATTER IN THIS ARGUMENT!!! This has to do with denying an AMERICAN CITIZEN a right that the rest of this country has. I'll copy this over from a post I made last night: There is that term "political correctness" something that gets tossed out there when someone is showing they are afraid of their own opinion on something. A red flag for a closed mind. Paradigm. Look up the definition of that word. We need to change the paradigm around marriage. It has nothing to do with reproduction or marriage. That is what religion tells you what it is all about. So, which religion gets to make that choice? There isn't one religion that represents EVERY American, therefore you cannot use just one to force that choice upon the country. No. It is very fair comparing it to slavery. You had a bunch of ignorant, fat men that didn't want to pay for labor or do a real day of work. Plus, their African slaves became objects to them and they argued that slaves couldn't be educated, could pass on disease, and a thousand other ill-formed ignorant opinions. That paradigm was forced upon the public and it rapidly became alright to think about it ok by the masses. I'm sure the cotton famers claimed that Lincoln was just being politically correct by trying to free the slaves and to give them rights the rest of the country had. Just like with women - how many years were they not allowed to vote and how many men claimed that people were just trying to be politically correct by giving them the voting right men had. It is difficult to say this without Insulting you, even in a nice way.... This is the old Cry Rape routine you are trying to pull. Or, otherwise known as playing the race card. I do not have the right to Marry, You do not have the right to marry. I am afraid my message isn't getting through to you, and you don't understand what I just wrote. Instead you try to make comparrisons, you try to change the subject. You try to come up with excuses, but there are two issues you fail to realize. 1) I am agnostic 2) No one has the right to marry. It is a privledge given to people by the state. If you don't like your State's laws.... Move to MA. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #47 November 3, 2004 Quote Well, IMO your views are dangerous to society. You say Incest is OK. You say Polygamy is OK. You Probably think NAMBLA is OK. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Its great that you feel I'm important enough to influence society to such an extent. But unfortunately I doubt that to be the case . But again, even if I could Idon't see how equality would be dangerous. (As an aside, I have no idea what NAMBLA is, so I can't comment, sorry) But you've missed what I found most offensive and that is your quite explicit expression that I would be dangerous to your family. QuoteLet me go out on a limb here and guess that you think drugs should be legal and everyone has the right to do what ever they want.... Am I close?Um, no, you're quite wrong, drugs can be and indeed, are, deadly. I don't believe that to be the case with equality.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #48 November 3, 2004 QuoteYou and your boyfriend can go to a lawyer and draw up any agreement you want. You can publicly declare your love for each other, and have any kind of ceremony you want. You can even move in next door, I dont care. But you can't be married because that's not what marraige is. Well, well, well.....Homophobia in example here. I'm not gay. I have no homosexual tendencies, yet because I support the right for two human beings to receive the benefits that the US government offers to two human beings who choose to join in partnership for life, you assumed I had a boyfriend. Nice. So exactly where does it say that tax breaks, and health benefits extended by the government of the USA to married couples are gender dependent? As far as I've seen the word "spouse" is used quite frequently, and that's a non-gender specific word. What are you afraid of? You like most who have not logically thought this subject through are probably stilly tying up your emotions based on some religious hoo-haw, and definition of marriage with what the law defines as marriage. I would argue that someone who thinks two men or women shouldn't be married to each other because it "just ain't right" harbors a few other less visible but more dangerous bigotries. How is it any different, barring the sexes of the two people involved? And the sex of the two people shouldn't matter BY LAW! Does the USA not have laws ensuring the equality of the sexes?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #49 November 3, 2004 I think some people (not you, Phree) are overlooking the fact that this goes MUCH FURTHER than marriage. It creates MANY other problems and denies other rights. For instance, if you're in the ICU, and your unmarried significant other wants to see you, they might not be allowed, because they're not "immediate family". There are numerous examples such as these, and by voting for an amendment banning gay marriage, you are pissing on gay people's rights everywhere. Also, some people seem to be overlooking the severity of an amendment as opposed to a law. The fact that it was even on the ballot in my state sickens me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #50 November 3, 2004 QuoteSo NO ONE RIGHTS are being taken away!!! Sure. But people are being discriminated against on the basis of gender, something that is illegal in all 50 states.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
