Your fired...

[EricTheRed 0]

...for listening to the wrong message.
This is what I fear, that the USA will become a place where I even have to consider what kind of music I listen to because someone else doesn't like the message.

Quote

Newspaper Reporters Suspended For Attending Concert

Oct 19, 2004 8:58 am US/Central
St. Paul (AP) Two St. Paul Pioneer Press reporters who were suspended for attending the recent "Vote for Change" political fund-raising concert have filed a union grievance against the newspaper.

Reporters had been asked not to attend the Bruce Springsteen and R.E.M. concert because ticket sales benefited an affiliate of the liberal group MoveOn. Newspaper management said attendance would compromise the politically neutral stance expected of journalists.

Investigative reporters Chuck Laszewski and Rick Linsk each were suspended for three days after editors learned that they went to the October Fifth concert at Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul.

Laszewski and Linsk referred all questions to Newspaper Guild executive officer Mike Sweeney, who said the union is contesting the suspensions

illegible usually

[SkyDekker 1,150]

Land of the free

[storm1977 0]

Quote

...for listening to the wrong message.
This is what I fear, that the USA will become a place where I even have to consider what kind of music I listen to because someone else doesn't like the message.

Quote

Newspaper Reporters Suspended For Attending Concert

Oct 19, 2004 8:58 am US/Central
St. Paul (AP) Two St. Paul Pioneer Press reporters who were suspended for attending the recent "Vote for Change" political fund-raising concert have filed a union grievance against the newspaper.

Reporters had been asked not to attend the Bruce Springsteen and R.E.M. concert because ticket sales benefited an affiliate of the liberal group MoveOn. Newspaper management said attendance would compromise the politically neutral stance expected of journalists.

Investigative reporters Chuck Laszewski and Rick Linsk each were suspended for three days after editors learned that they went to the October Fifth concert at Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul.

Laszewski and Linsk referred all questions to Newspaper Guild executive officer Mike Sweeney, who said the union is contesting the suspensions

I completely agree with this, unless they were attending the concert for the purpose of writing a piece on it in the paper.

It is the same reason why CNN should get rid of James Carville.... He works for the Kerry Camp... CONFLICT OF INTEREST working for Kerry and a "News" agency.

What if Bill O'Reilly worked for the Bush camp and FOx News at the same time? What would you think then?

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[rehmwa 2]

Must be much more to this than just the note. The Pioneer Press is a rather left leaning paper - Not as much as the Star Trib here, but still. Maybe we have something in the local news that has more of the story. if so, I'll post it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[EricTheRed 0]

Quote

It is the same reason why CNN should get rid of James Carville.... He works for the Kerry Camp... CONFLICT OF INTEREST working for Kerry and a "News" agency.

What if Bill O'Reilly worked for the Bush camp and FOx News at the same time? What would you think then?

I really wouldn't care. As long as the relationship was disclosed, it's part of what we used to have as the first of what we refer to as the Bill of Rights. Maybe you've heard of it.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In my mind, if corporations are allowed to control the rights of people when they are not on the clock it is a violation of these individuals basic rights. Please don't give me the BS that the workers can just go work somewhere else if they don't agree.

illegible usually

[EricTheRed 0]

BTW:

Just for the record, I believe fairly strongly in the other 9.

Just in case you forgot what these are:

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


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Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


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Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


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Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


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Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

illegible usually

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Then see this:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041019/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_film_reporter_4

Sinclair Axes Journalist Critical of Film

By KASEY JONES, Associated Press Writer

BALTIMORE - Sinclair Broadcast fired its Washington bureau chief, saying he revealed company business when he discussed its upcoming program on a documentary critical of John Kerry anti-Vietnam War activities.
Sinclair Broadcast Group Inc. said in a statement late Monday that it fired reporter Jon Leiberman and that "we are disappointed that Jon's political views caused him to violate company policy and speak to the press about company business."

In his initial remarks, published Monday by The (Baltimore) Sun, Leiberman called the Sinclair show "biased political propaganda, with clear intentions to sway this election."

Leiberman said he was fired Monday by Joseph DeFeo, Sinclair's vice president for news, and escorted out of the company's headquarters in Hunt Valley, Md.

"I was told I violated company policy by divulging information from a staff meeting" to The Sun, Leiberman said late Monday.

The staff meeting took place Sunday at Sinclair's headquarters, Leiberman said. He said staffers were told that the news division would handle the hourlong show, based on the documentary "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal."

The 42-minute documentary features former prisoners of war accusing Kerry, a decorated veteran who took up the anti-war cause upon returning from Vietnam, of prolonging the war and worsening their plight. Sinclair said last week it hadn't been decided how much of the documentary would appear in the completed show.

The Democratic National Committee has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission contending that airing the film should be considered an illegal in-kind contribution to the Bush campaign.

Leiberman, 29, said he told DeFeo he would not participate in preparing the program about the film and that he objected to it being labeled news rather than commentary.

"We have no further comment on the actions of a disgruntled employee or an ongoing personnel matter," the Sinclair statement said. "Viewers can grade Leiberman's opinion versus the reality when the finished product is aired."

Leiberman said he was not disgruntled and that the company had largely treated him well before now.

"I love what I do, but I love doing news. ... And I just felt like nobody was listening."

Earlier this month, Sinclair ordered its 62 TV stations across the country to pre-empt regular programming to air the show. In Baltimore, the show airs on Friday; at least some other stations were planning to show it Saturday.

Leiberman was chosen by Sinclair last year to start the company's four-person Washington bureau. He said Sinclair told him that he was fired for cause and would receive no severance.

"I know I stood up for the principles of objectivity," he said. "In journalism, all we have is credibility and objectivity."


Note: As a reminder, Sinclair was the group that pulled Ted Koppel's reading of all the American troops that were killed in Iraq because it could be considered anti-Bush.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

It is the same reason why CNN should get rid of James Carville.... He works for the Kerry Camp... CONFLICT OF INTEREST working for Kerry and a "News" agency.

Ever watch CNN's Crossfire? What do you think of Tucker Carlson then?

And don't forget Fox has a Bush relative working for them, and a Bush Sr former staff member working for them as well.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[EricTheRed 0]

There is more...
This may also be a "liberal" paper, but I could give a rat's ass. They went on their own time.

Quote

Guild defends members suspended for attending ‘Vote for Change’ concert

By Barb Kucera, Workday Minnesota editor — October 19, 2004

ST. PAUL — In a case already garnering national attention, the Minnesota Newspaper Guild/Typographical Union is defending two members suspended by the St. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper because they attended a “Vote for Change” concert.

On their own time, investigative reporters Chuck Laszewski and Rick Linsk attended the Oct. 5 concert at Xcel Energy Center featuring Bruce Springsteen and R.E.M. On Sept. 7, Pioneer Press management suspended them for three days, saying the newspaper had asked all newsroom staffers not to attend any of the “Vote for Change” concerts because they were sponsored by a political group, MoveOn.org

“We had a grievance meeting yesterday” with the company, Guild Executive Officer Mike Sweeney said Tuesday. “We asked them to remove the suspensions, restore their pay and remove the information from their files. The company refused, and now we’ll move it to arbitration.

“We will fight it very, very vigorously.”

Management’s actions appear to be based on a newsroom Code of Ethics that was adopted by the company and union during contract bargaining in 2000, Sweeney said. The code was designed to address situations that would compromise a reporter’s objectivity, such as a reporter who covers politics appearing on a list of contributors to a political candidate.

“Both these guys are investigative reporters. Their normal assignment is not politics or elections,” Sweeney said. “It’s a stretch to say that going to a concert sponsored by a 527, which is technically not a political contribution, is an ethical breech.”

“If this is let go, they can come up with just about anything as a conflict.”

Ironically, Laszewski, a Pioneer Press reporter for more than 20 years, was among the Guild members involved in crafting the Code of Ethics. Both he and Linsk, employed for about 10 years, are among the newspaper’s best reporters, Sweeney said.

According to the moveonpac.org website, the “Vote for Change” tour is sponsored by the MoveOn political action committee to benefit America Coming Together, a tax exempt group organized under Section 527 of the Internal Revenue Service code that is working to register voters.

The StarTribune reported Tuesday that it also had asked newsroom staffers not to attend “Vote for Change” concerts. Sweeney said newspapers and media outlets across the country are taking different positions, with some banning reporters from attending and others taking no action. Where newsroom staffs lack union representation, they have little recourse for fighting such policies.

Since the news broke about the Pioneer Press suspensions, Sweeney said he has been interviewed by media from across the country, including the trade journal, Editor & Publisher. The company could have settled the issue, but refused to do so, he said, and now will gain a lot of negative publicity.

The suspensions add to already low morale at the Pioneer Press, which has lost staff members in droves in recent months.

“You take two of the top reporters and come down on them like a ton of bricks like this – it’s gotta be pretty damn chilling,” Sweeney noted.

illegible usually

[storm1977 0]

This is a different situation.... IMO hardly comparable to the one first posted. In the article you posted, it appears on the surface that the broadcast company is wrong... I can agree with that.

The first case is different. These people were told NOT to go to the concert due to its political stance... The workers disobeyed and as a result were fired. End of story. Insubordination is a firable offence.

The News agency (paper) did not want the their employees in a situation which might comprimise their journalistic integrety.
If a teacher often frequents NAMBLA meetings I am sure he too could be fired. The meetings are legal, however, they may draw critisism that the school does not with to deal with. As such if the school orders him not to go to the meetings, and he continues to go, I see grounds for termination.

And yes I will say it.... If you don't like the terms of your job, then get a new one. You have that right.

I have a job with a security clearence... This causes me to not associate with some groups or people I may want to. But that is too bad for me, and if I choose to do those things, my clearence and job would be terminated... It was my choice to take the job.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[crwmike 0]

Quote

Must be much more to this than just the note

Dude, have you been paying any attention to what has happened to the land of the free????

[storm1977 0]

Quote

Quote

It is the same reason why CNN should get rid of James Carville.... He works for the Kerry Camp... CONFLICT OF INTEREST working for Kerry and a "News" agency.

Ever watch CNN's Crossfire? What do you think of Tucker Carlson then?

And don't forget Fox has a Bush relative working for them, and a Bush Sr former staff member working for them as well.

What do I think of Tucker???? Does it matter? He is just as radical as Carville...they are both whack jobs.. And neither should be working for any political group.

Hey, if I am the presidents son I can work for a news agency, as long as I do not have political ties to my father..
It is possible. In fact I completely disagree with my fathers politics. But I digress.

James Carville we know supports Kerry. There is no disputing that. As an Editorialist, he is entitled to his opinion, but, being on the Kerry payroll is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

The first case is different. These people were told NOT to go to the concert due to its political stance... The workers disobeyed and as a result were fired. End of story. Insubordination is a firable offence.

The News agency (paper) did not want the their employees in a situation which might comprimise their journalistic integrety.

Get a grip, it's a concert. Maybe they like REM. Sure, you can expect to hear some left leaning propoganda in between the songs, so what? I put up with religious banter when I attend a friend's wedding too. Doesn't mean I have converted. U2 is another example- great music, self serving politicking.

Do you really believe the employer should be able to dictate what people do in their free time? Would you like them to ban all dangerous recreational sports because they can't afford to lose you to an accident?

[nanook 1]

Quote

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

This has nothing to do with this situation what so ever. This particular Amendment says Congress (Govt) can't make laws that restrict freedom of speech. That newspaper is not government. In business, you can have more than one stipulation along with employment for exchange for money.

this is not to say the newspaper is right though. Employers have fired people in the past against their own Bylaws which led to lawsuits.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[champu 1]

The reporters weren't fired for their political views, and Eric never claimed they were, he just said he was afraid that might eventually happen.

No, they were given a three day suspension for insubordination. If you want to enjoy the benefits of working for a large company, sometimes you have to put up with policies like, "we don't want you going to openly political events like fundraiser concerts."

Likewise, in Leiberman's case, if you sign a non-disclosure agreement, then you try to further your carrer by making a news report based on information covered under that agreement... Guess what you get in your stocking!

[crwmike 0]

Quote

The first case is different. These people were told NOT to go to the concert due to its political stance... The workers disobeyed and as a result were fired. End of story. Insubordination is a firable offence.

The News agency (paper) did not want the their employees in a situation which might comprimise their journalistic integrety.

And yes I will say it.... If you don't like the terms of your job, then get a new one. You have that right.

I have a job with a security clearence... .

I'm just betting there was no psychological screening.

[PhillyKev 0]

I'm on the employer's side. They asked, in advance, that they not attend to avoid the appearance of impropriety for their newspaper. These guys disobeyed that. If they don't like that aspect of their job, find another one. That's not bullshit like someone else said, and it's not telling them they can't listen to that music. It's asking them not to attend a public event and there's nothing wrong with that.

I used to work for someone who was heavily involved in politics for the republican party. She asked me not to attend political events for opponents of the people she supported because I may be recognized by someone who knows her and it would have reflected on her. If I had a problem with that I would have found another job.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'm on the employer's side. They asked, in advance, that they not attend to avoid the appearance of impropriety for their newspaper. These guys disobeyed that. If they don't like that aspect of their job, find another one. That's not bullshit like someone else said, and it's not telling them they can't listen to that music. It's asking them not to attend a public event and there's nothing wrong with that.

Since you didn't respond directly, I'll ask you directly:

if your employer demands its workers stop participating in dangerous sports like skydiving or motorcycling, is that reasonable? Your options are to quit the job, or quit the activity?

That's a fucked up world.

Short of a book burning rally, I can't think of any events that employees of a newspaper shouldn't be able to go to in their private time.

Where's the line? When they say not to associate with blacks? Gays? You already listed members of the opposite party.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Since you didn't respond directly, I'll ask you directly:

Well you didn't ask me directly

But since you did...

Quote

if your employer demands its workers stop participating in dangerous sports like skydiving or motorcycling, is that reasonable? Your options are to quit the job, or quit the activity?

No, I don't think that is reasonable. Therefore I would find another job. Is it legal and do they have that right? Sure. Should they? Yes.

Quote

Where's the line? When they say not to associate with blacks? Gays? You already listed members of the opposite party.

There is no line. If someone wants to pay you to work for them, and they tell you what is required from you in order to get paid you either agree to it or don't. Chances are, if they ask anything unreasonsble, they're not going to attract very good employees.

[EricTheRed 0]

Quote

If I had a problem with that I would have found another job.

HMMM....

Believe it or not, soem people might have a tough time getting a new job that is equivalent. Last time I was 'downsized' it cost me my 5 weeks of vacation that I had. I've got a better job now, but there are a lot of folks out there that really do have a rough time finding equivalent income. Those that do often have to move, which can be pretty tough as well.

Who I listen to, what I read, and where I go in my free time is none of my employers concern.

illegible usually

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Who I listen to, what I read, and where I go in my free time is none of my employers concern.

Who you listen to and what you read in the privacy of your home is none of your employers concern, that's correct. However, what you do with your free time in public is your employers concern if it could reflect poorly on them.

Like Kevin said - don't like it? Find a new job.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

Yep, sometimes you make less money for a job that you'd rather have.

I could easily go find another job with less hours and that I enjoyed more on a day to day basis, but I wouldn't make as much money. I've decided that the money is worth it for me right now.

I'm on call 24x7. Every other week I can't be more than 2 hours away from the office at anytime. That's a pretty big restriction on my free time. But you know what, they pay me good money, so I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

Quote

Who I listen to, what I read, and where I go in my free time is none of my employers concern.

You might want to check your company handbook, if they have one. Most major companies have morality clauses. Meaning, if your boss sees you shit faced drunk at a bar 6 days into your 2 week vacation, they may can your ass. They have that right. You have the right not to work for a company that would do that.

Many companies perform drug testing for office jobs. I think that's ludicrous. But they have the right to do it, and I have the right not to work for them.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

There is no line. If someone wants to pay you to work for them, and they tell you what is required from you in order to get paid you either agree to it or don't. Chances are, if they ask anything unreasonsble, they're not going to attract very good employees.

You might check into employment law. Fortunately your beliefs are not reflected there. Employers have won the dubious right to drug testing, but even in at will states they don't have open rein.

[PhillyKev 0]

True, they can't ask you to do anything dangerous or illegal, or something that violates your civil rights. I'm not talking about extremes. The subject matter here was being asked not to go to a public event.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

True, they can't ask you to do anything dangerous or illegal, or something that violates your civil rights. I'm not talking about extremes. The subject matter here was being asked not to go to a public event.

Your words went a lot further - "there is no line."

And I thought assembly was one of the civil rights. Privacy too, though that one is more contested.