Catholics with wheat allergies condemned to hell.

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

Wait, does this mean that recovering alcoholics are also required to drink the wine? Do Catholics still use real wine for Communion?

No. For those with alcohol intolerances of any kind, a slightly fermented grape juice is involved, with a very very tiny percent of alcohol, so low that it isn't technically considered wine, but enough that it makes the priests happy.

Catholicism is also a bit weird about communion in other ways, like refusing to give communion to the rainbow clad individuals on the gay/lesbian pride day, and not wanting to give communion to John Kerry simply because he is pro-choice. This to me is idiocy to, for if they refuse communion to everyone they deem a 'sinner', then no one would be eligable for the sacriment at all.

I had a discussion about all this with a friend who brought up a good point. In the Catholic (as well as many other churches, Christian and non), a lot of things are done in the name of God... refusing communion being what God wants, etc. She feels that this is directly against the 'Thou shalt not take God's name in vain' commandment. She interprets it not so much as saying 'Oh God' too much, but as using God's name to further a cause, or politics of a particular religion, or holy war, etc. Doing something in the name of God that isn't spelled out directly in the Bible. Many religions do this on a daily basis.

Thought it was an interesting way to look at things.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[pajarito 0]

They also won't let non-Catholics in general participate in their Eucharist ceremony. My Father-in-law was Catholic but his wife was not (Although she was married in the Catholic Church so I guess she was at one time; I don't really know how all that works). He died 2 years ago and about 1/4 of us who attended his funeral (in the Catholic Church) were Protestant of one sort or another. They all did their memorized readings and orchestrated responses to the Priest while we just sat there quietly. When it came time for Communion, the Priest asked that we not participate and to respect their different way of doing things. Of course, we did what he asked but that really left me with a bad feeling. I know it's because they believe in the literal transformation of the bread into the body of Christ and the wine into blood and all that (I guess...right?) but I don't really see as how that "damages" their ceremony in the slightest if I only believe it in figurative terms and participate. The Lord's Table is for everyone who believes and not just Catholics. Most of the non-Catholic family members on my Wife’s side are very good Christians. Not any less so than the Catholics in that church.

[crozby 0]

Nice post.

Quote

So over simplified, yes God made that little girl, but he didn't have a direct hand in it, it happened due to the continuation of his creation.

His creation is no longer perfect due to Lucifier's hand and Adam's freewill.

Does this imply that disabilities and other imperfections in people (and animals?!?) are not caused by Gods will, but rather come into existence as a result of our bad behaviour and the supernatural influences of Satan?

[Nightingale 0]

a non catholic can marry a catholic in a catholic ceremony with a priest, provided they go through certain steps:

The Catholic Church recognizes the right of a Catholic to ask permission or dispensation from his/her bishop in order marry a person who is not a member of the Catholic Church. If the Catholic is seeking to marry a person who is a baptized Protestant, it is only necessary to request "permission" from the bishop in order to enter an interchurch marriage. If the Catholic is seeking to marry a person who is not baptized (e.g., a Jew, Muslim, agnostic, etc), it is necessary to request a "dispensation" in order to enter an interfaith marriage. The Catholic can obtain this permission or dispensation by meeting with his/her pastor, who will have the proper forms for recording the information that must be included in the request. These requests are usually always granted, and are returned to the local pastor within a few days (it is usually done by snail mail).

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

but rather come into existence as a result of our bad behaviour and the supernatural influences of Satan?

Our "bad behaviour" has nothing to do with it, behavior has nothing to do with it. God doesn't smile on "good" or "bad" people, only those who have excepted his grace.

At this point I'm tired trying to explain a religion I don't don't really participate in. From here on out feel free to do your own reseach and reading, instead of trying to troll on my years of research.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Oh, I can't believe no one has commented on my "knocked up Mary" comment...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,471]

>They also won't let non-Catholics in general participate in their Eucharist ceremony.

The church in my home town had no problem with my wife's parents (Episcopalian) taking communion. I think it depends on the church.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Our "bad behaviour" has nothing to do with it, behavior has nothing to do with it. God doesn't smile on "good" or "bad" people, only those who have excepted his grace.

I "think" we're on the same page here when it comes to who's at fault when someone does something bad. The person being bad or the Devil (I'm assuming you're saying it's the person who does the bad things which is responsible right?). Of course I'm sure there are many other things concerning this topic that we'd disagree on.

For the record I am agnostic, but a few years back while I was hanging with a very religious Christian, questions were asked. And unless I'm mistaken, the fundamental message towards being Christian is accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. It does matter if you're a model citizen or a child molesting ax murderer. If you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you're in. You'll be accepted into heaven (at least this is what the nut cases in Colorado Springs kept telling me). But because I'm agnostic (not knowing if there is or isn't a God), it looks like I've booked a one way tickets into hell according to many bible thumbing Christians regardless of whether or not I've been good or bad. And herein lies one of my fundamental issues I have with Christianity (I have others, but there's no point listing them here). It doesn't matter what you do on this planet just as long as you've accepted Jesus as you're Lord and Savior, you're sitting pretty.

The hard core religious types are just a bunch of misdirected nut cases I tell you (and with that statement I'm sure a few nut cases out there will decide to flame me). But don't forget that I have my reasons why NOT to buy into your religion. So you can flame away to your delight. I don't care ...

PS: My comments are directed to this forum and NOT directed to AggieDave.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Nightingale 0]

depends on the priest, mainly. Some will let everyone participate, others reserve it only for catholics. Official policy here

[kelel01 1]

Quote

It doesn't matter what you do on this planet just as long as you've accepted Jesus as you're Lord and Savior, you're sitting pretty.

Not all Christians believe that, just so you know.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Not all Christians believe that, just so you know.

I can't tell you how many times I heard "the Devil this and the Devil that" when I was living in Colorado Springs (head quarters for all the religous nut cases out there). And the message those people kept telling me was "just accept Jesus and all will be forgiven".

Colorado Springs is a very pretty place to live, but the it is a festering hot spot for nut cases. Of course I went from the hard core right wing religous nut cases of Colorado Springs to the granola eating, tree hunging, Audi driving, zero percept body fat, left wing yuppie nut cases of Boulder CO. Can't I find a normal place to live? Maybe it's just me.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kelel01 1]

That's more of a Protestant belief, but believe me, there are religious zealots everywhere, of every religion. You just have to duck your head as you walk past.

[ryoder 1,410]

Quote

Quote

Not all Christians believe that, just so you know.

I can't tell you how many times I heard "the Devil this and the Devil that" when I was living in Colorado Springs (head quarters for all the religous nut cases out there). And the message those people kept telling me was "just accept Jesus and all will be forgiven".

Colorado Springs is a very pretty place to live, but the it is a festering hot spot for nut cases. Of course I went from the hard core right wing religous nut cases of Colorado Springs to the granola eating, tree hunging, Audi driving, zero percept body fat, left wing yuppie nut cases of Boulder CO. Can't I find a normal place to live? Maybe it's just me.

I'll take Boulder. Your description of living in Colorado Springs sounds EXACTLY like living with my parents!

I was having an email exchange on this topic with a friend a couple days ago, and he shared the following collection of relevant quotes:

Good people can do good and bad people can do evil.
But for good people to do evil -- that takes religion.
- Steven Weinberg

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when
they do it from religious conviction.
-Blaise Pascal

Fundamentalism means never having to say "I'm wrong."
-Anonymous

Impiety, n. Your irreverence toward my deity.
-Ambrose Bierce

Heaven: The Coney Island of the Christian imagination.
-Elbert Hubbard

I don't mind born-agains being born again, but why do
they always have to come back as themselves?!
-Robin Tyler

The missionaries go forth to Christianize the savages --
as if the savages weren't dangerous enough already.
-Edward Abbey

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere,
may be happy.
-H. L. Mencken

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[mcrocker 0]

Communion/Eucharist doesn't HAVE to be the little white disks you normally see at church. They could very easily substitute ANY bread (has to unleven I think). It is just bread until it is turned into the Eucharist during the mass. The church could very easily perform two blessings and give the girl a corn flour based biscuit instead of the wheat flour based one.

When I was an alter boy we used to have huge bags of the communion disks and woud fill the Eucharist cups by hand and bring them to the alter. Same thing for the wine.

There is nothing in the Bible that states the Eucharist needs to be made out of wheat.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

There is nothing in the Bible that states the Eucharist needs to be made out of wheat.

Read the article, according to the Vatican it HAS to be unleavened WHEAT. They gave her a rice cracker and then the archdiocese invalidated her communion.

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

There is nothing in the Bible that states the Eucharist needs to be made out of wheat.

Nothing in the Bible that I am aware of, but Catholic doctrine states that the 'bread' must be wheat based. The family had gotten her a rice based host and was later told that the communion was invalid simply due to the type of grain the host was made from.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[jakee 1,279]

Well then here's an interesting thought (well it is to me, y'all might just ignore it)

Acouple of snips from your basic christian theology...

Quote

1. God is perfect
2. Man was perfectly designed in His image

Quote

His creation is no longer perfect due to Lucifier's hand

So, man is the perfect image of god, but man is corruptible and indeed has been corrupted by the forces of evil.

Simple logic must take us to the realisation that God himself is corruptible. Now given that He has existed for all all eternity and by extension been exposed to the influence of evil for all eternity then surely He has been corrupted!!

Proof that God is evil. AggieDave, I think you've just brought down the church.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yourmomma 0]

1. What is God's opinion of vegetarians?
1. A. They are purer in faith.
B. They are weak heathens, worshipping other gods.
C. They will be stronger in the long run, by resisting temptation.
D. A and C.

Correct Answer: B. (They are weak heathens, worshipping other gods.) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils . . . commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth" (1 Timothy 4:1-3). “For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs” (Romans 14:2).

2. What has God ordered evil people to consume?
A. The flesh and juice of overripe fruit.
B. The flesh and blood of rotting animal corpses.
C. The flesh and blood of humans, including themselves.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: C. (The flesh and blood of humans, including themselves.) "And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine” (Isaiah 49:26). “I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another” (Zechariah 1:9). “Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm” (Isaiah 9:19-20).

3. What special ingredient has God required sinners to bake in their bread?
A. Spicy peppers that burn the cheeks and roofs of their mouths.
B. Human excrement, though upon complaint, He has allowed them to use cow dung instead .
C. Worms and eight-legged insects.
D. Powerful sedatives that cause memory loss.

Correct Answer: B. (Human excrement, though upon complaint He has allowed them to use cow dung instead.) "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man . . . Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth. Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow’s dung for man’s dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith” (Ezekiel 4:12-15).

4. How did people wash down the special ingredient in Question 3?
A. With bitter wine.
B. With their own urine.
C. With salt water from the sea.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: B. (With their own urine.) “Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?” (2 Kings 18:27; see Isaiah 36:12).

5. Which of the following dishes were clean and therefore acceptable for God’s children to eat?
A. Turtle soup.
B. Rabbit stew.
C. Escargot.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (None of the above) “And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you” (Leviticus 11:6). “These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth: the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind, And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole” (Leviticus 11:29-30).

6. Which children did God order bad people to eat?
A. This question is utter nonsense. God forbids all cannibalism, let alone cannibalism involving children.
B. Their sons but not their daughters.
C. Their daughters but not their sons.
D. Their sons, daughters and even newborn infants.

Correct Answer: D. (Their sons, their daughters and even newborn infants.) “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat” (Leviticus 26:29). “And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters” (Deuteronomy 28:53). “And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them” (Deuteronomy 28:57). “And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend” (Jeremiah 19:9).

7. Which bugs are clean and were therefore acceptable for God’s children to eat?
A. Beetles and grasshoppers.
B. Locusts and bald locusts.
C. All of the above.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: C. (All of the above) “Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind” (Leviticus 11:22).

8. What lifestyle activities does God recommend?
A. Heavy consumption of meat.
B. Moderate to heavy exercise.
C. Heavy consumption of fat.
D. A and C.

Correct Answer: D.(None of the above) “And ye shall eat fat till ye be full” (Ezekiel 39:19). “[Peter] became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him . . . Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat” (Acts 10:9-13). “For bodily exercise profiteth little . . .” (1 Timothy 4:8).

9. What does God say about consumption of wine?
A. People with serious financial problems should drink wine so they can forget their woes.
B. People with stomach problems should drink wine.
C. Wise men would not drink wine, which is a mocker.
D. All of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (All of the above) “Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more” (Proverbs 31:6-7). “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities” (1 Timothy 5:23). “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).

10. Which of the following birds are clean and were therefore acceptable for God’s children to eat?
A. Raven and hawk.
B. Swan and pelican.
C. Heron and stork.
D. None of the above.

Correct Answer: D. (None of the above) And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; Every raven after his kind; And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat” (Leviticus 11:13-19).

[pajarito 0]

Thanks. I don't agree with some Catholic doctrine but it's interesting to understand the beliefs of others.

• Quote

[pajarito 0]

Quote

>They also won't let non-Catholics in general participate in their Eucharist ceremony.

The church in my home town had no problem with my wife's parents (Episcopalian) taking communion. I think it depends on the church.

Probably true. The one in Eufaula AL, however, won't.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Not quite. If you study Christian theology there's a few basic things that are "known" to be "true."

1. God is perfect
2. Man was perfectly designed in His image and then opened his self imperfections through his freewill and the choice of sin (Adam and Eve).

So... if God is perfect, and he designed Man perfectly in his image, then why would Man have chosen sin? I am assuming that sin would be considered an imperfection, so if Man chose sin through his free will then Man is not perfect....

So why would a "perfect" God design an imperfect creature? What exactly was his purpose in doing that - just for the amusement of watching us suffer?

[jakee 1,279]

Quote

So why would a "perfect" God design an imperfect creature? What exactly was his purpose in doing that - just for the amusement of watching us suffer?

But taking enjoyment in the suffering of others would in itself be sinful, taking us back to my proof that god has indeed been corrupted and is now evil, and that AggieDave will destroy the church.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I long ago stopped expecting anything rational, reasonable, fair, or meaningful from organized religion, particularly the Catholic church.

I thought they have a commandment against idolatry. I thought that nothing is supposed to be put before god, no symbols, etc. So here they are, saying that the symbol of this unleavened bread is soooo sacrosanct that it cannot be made of anything else but wheat and still symbolize what it is supposed to.

I wonder what the Catholics would do if some worldwide blight killed all wheat in the world. Hmmm? It's not unfeasible. It may not be likely, but it's something that could, technically, happen. Would that mean there could be no communion?

I also have a problem with other religions -- I'm equal time. Like this thing about not working on the Sabbath, for Jews. I knew "orthodox" Jews in college, who since they could not operate things like televisions on the Sabbath, would leave the t.v. on their favorite station before sundown Friday. "Oh, gee, what do you know, the t.v. is on my favorite station and I can't turn it off now that it's the Sabbath." Do these people really fuckin' think GOD is FOOLED by their skirting the rules?! Oh, and the idea that "pigs are unclean, so thou shalt not eat pork"... God made an animal that he himself thinks is unclean and unworthy?! I thought all creatures were God's creatures and therefore precious? Cows stink just as bad as pigs do -- they're okay to eat, though? Besides, I'd like to know where it is stated plainly in the bible that people are not to eat pigs.

Ugh, ya went and got me started on religion again...

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

That's just f$%*#@g stupid. Please don't lump sum all Christians in with Catholics. The Eucharist is for all Christians and not just Catholics and certainly not just for those Christians who aren't allergic to wheat.

And certainly not gays, unwed parents, divorced people, those who have had abortions...

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Muenkel 0]

Kev,

Do I have to hit your knuckles with a ruler?

Am I the only practising Catholic here?

This is the truth in regard to the article posted: There are laws regarding the Eucharist from the Vatican Council that cannot be changed unless the Pontiff changes them. Yes, it is true that the host be made from wheat. Any priest that allows anything but wheat is in disobedience to Rome. Also, it is true that priests are not permitted to give Communion to known non-Catholics. If they do, they also are in disobedience to Rome.

In regard to both species of Holy Communion...Body and Blood, both are believed to be the full body and blood of Christ. Since the girl is allergic to wheat, she can recieve Holy Communion via the consecrated wine. She has not received anything less than anyone else. For the alcoholics (yes, it is true that the alcohol properties is minute, but could be detrimental to an alcoholic) they can receive via the Host. Either way, it is believed you have received both the Body and Blood of Christ.

Blues,

_________________________________________
Chris