Fuck the Race Card!

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Oh by the way you can go fuck yourself (twice even) if you think I'm about feeling sorry for myself once agian I notice that I'm accused of felling sorry for myself or being melodramatic but not the person who started this thread explain that shit to me

Dude, you sound ANGRY. If half the shit you said happened to you had happened to me, I'd be angry as hell too. I just hope you don't go doing something like Colin Ferguson did on the L.I.R.R. back in '93. I don't have a solution to 4-year-olds calling you nigger -- that's some fucked-up shit. I don't have a solution for cops being racist shitheads and misapplying the law to you, either. I hope you can maintain a degree of inner peace, at least, just from knowing how WRONG these people are. It's probably going to take a long while before all this shit is worked out of society.

But honestly, do you really think that being racist in the opposite direction (re: B.E.T., NAACP, Affirmative Action, etc.) is a good response that's going to help end this, or just perpetuate the divide between skin colors? I'd bet that a lot of ignorant people who act racist toward you are responding subconsciously to the fact that even as they are told to be color blind toward blacks, blacks are doing all they can, lately, to highlight the fact that they are black and not white, and separating themselves after people worked so hard and gave their lives to tear down the separations that prevented them from being considered equals.

Blue skies,
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[wmw999 2,148]

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I'm surrounded by people of all races, and rarely do any of them experience these problems.

Are you the person someone would go to in order to discuss this kind of thing? I kind of doubt it.

Of course it happens; often in small ways. Women don't talk to men about being hit on as a rule, unless they want to make them jealous, or they want some help. And folks who are demeaned by others won't talk to someone who isn't subject to the same kind of demeaning about it.

When you experience a lot of some kind of behavior, it colors your viewpoint. Police deal with a lot of guilty people -- many of them view most of the suspicious behavior they see as guilty rather than innocent. And when someone has been subjected to a fair amount of prejudice, it's easy, really, to understand where it might color their viewpoint. Ask a Muslim how easy it is to be a Muslim in America right now? How much they enjoy getting those notes that are passing around asking them to PROVE they love America? How much they enjoy the ones telling them to suck it up and admit that America is really Christian (I get them -- I'm sure Muslims do too).

Just because you haven't personally experienced something doesn't make it untrue. And just because someone else has experienced it doesn't make it true, other than FOR THEM, AT THAT TIME. But it's really hard to take personal experience from people.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[KATO33 0]

completely off the subject here. But the reason there's a huge difference in spending in school districts is the fact that the richer districts are able to. in most places funding for schools comes from local property taxes as well as state and federal. In poorer areas where everybody rents and has no real assets to be taxed, there is just no money. It has to come from state and federal only. ***

Understood thus the Hypothtical trying to find an answer to.....what should Black people do when we are being treated unjust?

Blue Skies Black Death

[skydyvr 0]

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I'm surrounded by people of all races, and rarely do any of them experience these problems.

Are you the person someone would go to in order to discuss this kind of thing? I kind of doubt it.

Well, thanks for the vote of no-confidence, but you might be wrong. One of my absolute best friends on the planet is a North Korean immigrant who sits in the cube next to me. She comes to me first when she needs a friend. My first wife (we're now divorced) is 100% Sioux Indian. She had little difficulty sharing with me either. I could go on. My point? Don't be so quick to define anyone over the internet.

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Of course it happens; often in small ways. Women don't talk to men about being hit on as a rule, unless they want to make them jealous, or they want some help. And folks who are demeaned by others won't talk to someone who isn't subject to the same kind of demeaning about it.

I know that sexist and racist behavior still exists out there, but I just don't think it's as common as the poor old oppressed poster was trying to make it sound. Maybe "rarely" was an inaccurate description for me to use, but I truly doubt it's so horrible being a black guy in Austin.

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When you experience a lot of some kind of behavior, it colors your viewpoint. Police deal with a lot of guilty people -- many of them view most of the suspicious behavior they see as guilty rather than innocent. And when someone has been subjected to a fair amount of prejudice, it's easy, really, to understand where it might color their viewpoint. Ask a Muslim how easy it is to be a Muslim in America right now? How much they enjoy getting those notes that are passing around asking them to PROVE they love America? How much they enjoy the ones telling them to suck it up and admit that America is really Christian (I get them -- I'm sure Muslims do too).

Muslims (and people mistakenly identified as Muslim) are having a hard time right now due to fear of terrorism. We'll have to agree that they actually are feeling the heat of unjust treatment -- unlike some poor old black guy living in Austin.

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Just because you haven't personally experienced something doesn't make it untrue. And just because someone else has experienced it doesn't make it true, other than FOR THEM, AT THAT TIME. But it's really hard to take personal experience from people.

I spent a significant percentage of my childhood in Hawaii. I've been on the receiving side of racism. I never whined about it -- just tried to change people's minds.

. . =(_8^(1)

[wmw999 2,148]

The guy in Austin is old enough to remember the 60's as a child, the 70's as an adolescent, and the 80's as an adult, if I remember rightly. That's plenty of time to have experienced enough racism to color a lot.
During the 90's I remember a conversation among co-workers (I'm in Houston), all young black men. All drove really nice new cars (they were employed, they could afford them -- why the hell not?).

They were talking casually about beeper time -- not whining, just chatting. We passed the beeper for night support around the group. Each confirmed that if it was his beeper week, it guaranteed that WHEN they got stopped by the police (apparently for DWB, since at least 2 had perfect driving records), they were sure to be told to exit the car and then patted down.

This was common to all 3; not isolated, but something they could identify with.

I was a white lady in her mid-30's. I hadn't even been stopped for anything in several years, never mind frisked at gunpoint (at least one of the friskings was at gunpoint).

Some of it is car prejudice, which can happen to people of any color. You going to say that police don't look a little more carefully at fast-looking cars? But the reaction to the beeper (and they agreed it was the common thread) isn't likely to be anything but race. In their experience, some young black men with beepers and nice cars were drug dealers, so they treated my co-workers (system programmers) as such until proven otherwise.

That was in the 90's, as I said. Yes, it still happens. It doesn't necessarily go as far as it used to, but I'll bet after awhile that it would really wear on you, and that, just as the police assumed that a young black male with a beeper driving a nice car was a drug dealer, that a black male who's getting scruntinized will base his judgement on experience too.

Don't rob people of their experiences. Just keep helping to provide all of the people you meet with experiences that will counteract the negative/prejudiced ones.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skydyvr 0]

Wendy, thanks for helping shape my perspective, yet again.

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Don't rob people of their experiences. Just keep helping to provide all of the people you meet with experiences that will counteract the negative/prejudiced ones.

Yes, this is what I do. Just hadn't thought of it that way.

. . =(_8^(1)

[txblondie 0]

Don't you just love it when under qualified women are promoted becuase a company is afraid the next useless lawsuit will target them for sexism and sexual harassment?

Don't you just love it when a woman can ruin a man's career with one accusation? Don't you just love it when.... oh, fuck off.

[wmw999 2,148]

And don't you hate that some men will figure that any woman getting promoted over them is because of their gender, and not superior qualifications? Or that some white/black/purple people will figure that someone getting promoted over them (or hired, or being in a position of power over them) got that way because of their skin tone and not because of qualifications?

GPA isn't always the sole (or even main) criterium. There are subtle social and instinct skills which go into getting hired or promoted to management and some other jobs. It's sometimes called "judgement," but it boils down to that those folks seem to be able to read situations and make decisions that come out right, even when someone with better technical skills might not.

I don't always have that. I know people younger than I am, with less experience, fewer credentials, and of a different gender who have more of it than I do. Such is life. Sometimes I look at the situation and just don't understand how they got there. But in looking at the longer term, they always seem to know the right thing to say to get their point across, and keep the project on track. In working in groups, that does, in fact, matter.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[txblondie 0]

Exactly! And when someone is deserving of a higher ranking/salary than I am, regardless of looks/age/gender/race, I am the first one to admit it. I like to think I have a good work ethic, and that I am intelligent and do an excellent job, but at the same time, there are people in my office at this very moment while I'm here posting that are doing their jobs with much more integrity than myself!

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Blondes do have more fun!

[airdweller 0]

Yea but your a woman so you can get away with it

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[txblondie 0]

Ha, ha. Very funny.

Laugh it up, fuzzball!

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Blondes do have more fun!

[Ron 7]

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I will as soon as society and your government stop practicing institutional racisim. That way I won't have to be hit, called names, followed through stores like a criminal, ignored when trying to get seating in a nice restaurant, jacked up and searched by police for walking down the street, pulled over by police for DWB, simply because of the color of my skin

What about when I was in High School and a black guy hit me while I walked in the hall...When he was caught his reason for hitting me was "Cause he was white".

Or how about the time a black guy in LA at a stop light pulled out a gun and told me to "Get my white punk ass out of his hood"?

Or how if I have a problem with Affermative Acction , Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton you assume that I am a racist?

You mean like that kind of racism?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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So, you either need to concede that women make less than men because they are women. Or you have to claim that women are generally inferior to men and deserve less pay. Which is it?

How about the work less on average?

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according to US Census Bureau data, full-time-men work 2213 hours a year on average versus only 1796 for full-time women.

And that men are more agressive in the business world?

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Lastly, women are far more likely than men to refuse promotions, citing familial responsibilities - men are at the other end of the spectrum and tend to actually be very aggressive about climbing the corporate ladder.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[78RATS 0]

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OHH MY PUSSY HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'll behave if I tell you to behave!

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[turtlespeed 212]

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OHH MY PUSSY HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'll behave if I tell you to behave!

Don't take that -

hell, if I had that directed at me - well, I'd do something about it.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jdfreefly 1]

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What about when I was in High School and a black guy hit me while I walked in the hall...When he was caught his reason for hitting me was "Cause he was white".

Or how about the time a black guy in LA at a stop light pulled out a gun and told me to "Get my white punk ass out of his hood"?

Hey Ron,

I am against racism of any kind. And this is definitely racism.

Something to think about though, imagine the fucked up life someone had to live to get to that point. Where the rage inside him, actually drove him to actions like these.

Not bagging on you, just a thought.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[Cudlo 0]

Lets see here... I have been pulled over/searched/harassed just for driving through the "nice neighborhoods". I've had my car torn apart by cops and police dogs. Had my clothes practically ripped from me as I was searched. Been hit over the head with flashlights/night sticks/etc. Had smokes, CDs, CD Players, and various other pieces of equipment stolen from me by cops. Nearly got thrown in jail for giving a 17 year old white female friend a place to stay at my female friend's house after being kicked out of her own house. The list goes on and on about the shit i went through with police... Oh, and btw. I'm white. My father is a public defender, so I grew up knowing cops. For alot of people working law enforcement on the street, it gets to be that all they can see is scum. Their outlook of the world becomes very narrow and very depressed. But its not their fault. Its reactionary to the enviroment in which they work. Most of my police troubles went away when I cleaned up my act and enlisted in the Army. I went to BCT at Ft. Benning, GA. During that time I ended up in a position of authority in my barracks. These 3 guys fucked up one day and got our whole company smoked for hours. So, that week they had alot of fire watch (barrack night guard duty) letting them get very little sleep. One came to me and started yelling at me that I was unfairly abusing him and his "brothas". Spent the next 10 minutes explaining to him that I was giving him hell cause he was an asshole, not because he was black. The notion that he could be blamed for something that didnt relate to the color of his skin didnt sink in. Oh well tho, its just the world we live in.

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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

[Ron 7]

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Something to think about though, imagine the fucked up life someone had to live to get to that point. Where the rage inside him, actually drove him to actions like these.

Well all those acts against me (And there are many more)...And I didn't grow up to hate blacks...

Why is that?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[WrongWay 0]

RIGHT ON DUDE!!!! EXCELLENT POST!!!!

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[jdfreefly 1]

Better family life, better friends to lean on, who knows?

You didn't grow up to hate other races but plenty of other people did. I hate to go quoting the bible but this is where turning the other cheek comes into play.

Hate begets hate.

Side note: I used to work as a pizza delivery guy, in fact, that paid for my student jumps and my frist 100. I worked in a town with a college and a ghetto. A lot of things that happened at that job made me start to hate black people. Ocasionally, I would find myself thinking very racist thoughts, hatefull thoughts.

It is an easy trap to fall into. It sounds like this is something people here are all to familiar with. You can't let it happen. It will poison your soul and rot your life. The only way I was able to keep some perspective was to think about how really sad it was that an eleven year old kid in the ghetto felt the need to spit on the pizza guy because he was white. Makes me just as sad listening to an uneducated white trash teen girl talk about how the, "damn niggers are ruining this country." What kind of family must she have? Makes you want to scream it is so stupid.

I have never been for any affirmative action policies. I really feel they only divide us, make the group you take from resent the group you give to and make the group you give to feel less about themselves because they suspect they didn't really earn it.

I will always think it is a problem of education. Ignorance breeds racist thought. Ignorance breeds hoplessness, which leads to rage.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[Ron 7]

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Better family life, better friends to lean on, who knows?

You didn't grow up to hate other races but plenty of other people did. I hate to go quoting the bible but this is where turning the other cheek comes into play.

Hate begets hate.

A lot of things that happened at that job made me start to hate black people. Ocasionally, I would find myself thinking very racist thoughts, hatefull thoughts.

It is an easy trap to fall into. It sounds like this is something people here are all to familiar with. You can't let it happen. It will poison your soul and rot your life. The only way I was able to keep some perspective was to think about how really sad it was that an eleven year old kid in the ghetto felt the need to spit on the pizza guy because he was white.

Maybe blacks need to do the same? I mean if I don't hate black people after what they have done and I am sure will do to me....Why should it be OK for a black to hate me for something I never did to them?

All I am saying is that it seem OK for blacks to hate whites and to blame whites for their problems...But as soon as a white guy asks for EQUAL treatment for everyone he is labled a racist.

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Makes me just as sad listening to an uneducated white trash teen girl talk about how the, "damn niggers are ruining this country." What kind of family must she have? Makes you want to scream it is so stupid.

I feel the same way...I ALSO feel the same way when I hear blacks blame their problems on whites or "the Man". I want to scream when I hear idiots like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton say that the white man tries to keep the black man down.

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I will always think it is a problem of education. Ignorance breeds racist thought. Ignorance breeds hoplessness, which leads to rage.

Yep, and I have never hit a blackman cause he was black....I have however been jumped twice just cause I was white, had a gun pulled on me in a restroom cause I was white...Ect.

Why did I deserve that?

And yet I still don't hate blacks...I hate THOSE people cause they are assholes, not because they were black.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[funks 1]

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And yet I still don't hate blacks...I hate THOSE people cause they are assholes, not because they were black.

Very well put, assholism (yes, i made that word up) is blind to skin color.

Thought crossed my mind with football now being back in swing. My original post talked about prime time tv and the miller lite fiasco. How about NFL football..talk about getting a fair shot, can anyone name the last time football had a star white running back? I dont bitch about this because I realize that perhaps the better athletes happen to be black. Fine by me. Also, what about the fact that nfl teams are now mandated to interview at least one black person when searching for a head coach. Why does skin color have anything to do with who gets the coaching position?

My point is that sometimes some people are just more qualified for what they do, if they happen to be black..so be it, if they happen to be white, so be it. Skin color should have absolutely nothing to do with anything.

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[Ron 7]

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Also, what about the fact that nfl teams are now mandated to interview at least one black person when searching for a head coach. Why does skin color have anything to do with who gets the coaching position?

Is this true?

What Bull Shit.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[funks 1]

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Also, what about the fact that nfl teams are now mandated to interview at least one black person when searching for a head coach. Why does skin color have anything to do with who gets the coaching position?

Is this true?

What Bull Shit.

As for Black coaches, progress has been a bit slower. Black leaders, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson and lawyer Johnnie Cochran, have threatened lawsuits. And the NFL has since decreed that teams must interview, in person, at least one Black candidate for any head coach slot that opens up or face a big-money fine.

http://www.bet.com/articles/1,,c1gb8409-9258,00.html

sorry, dont know how to make clicky, but you'll notice the usual suspects mentioned in the article

[Ron 7]

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As for Black coaches, progress has been a bit slower. Black leaders, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson and lawyer Johnnie Cochran, have threatened lawsuits. And the NFL has since decreed that teams must interview, in person, at least one Black candidate for any head coach slot that opens up or face a big-money fine.

Thats just wrong....See Jessie Jackson and Sharpton don't want equal, they want special treatment.

http://www.bet.com/articles/1,,c1gb8409-9258,00.html

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334