Zenister 0 #51 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou can't finish college at a decent school without acquiring a work ethic somewhere along the way, no matter who's financing your education. you're still the one who's got to sit down and write the research papers, get them turned in on time, study for exams and such. I just have to disagree. I have known far too many bums that got that piece of paper with absolutely no work ethic and didn't manage to stay employed long after graduation. Someone with enough intelligence can get through college by never going to class and doing the bare minimum without trying. Mind you, this is in engineering at one of the top 5 colleges in the country, so it isn't SlackU either. lots of people do exactly that...play, party, and breeze thru to earn the same piece of paper as those who put time and energy into improving themselves and earning their degree. Test files and 'study' groups found in man Frats/Sororities only encourage that behavior.. It is criminal the number of people who manage to graduate from well recognized institutions without learning anything, even in the fields they are now degreed in, much less basic research/thinking skills.... I completed both my BA and BFA while working as a bartender. I went to college to learn about the subjects I was interested in, NOT with the intent to find a good job/husband afterwards. There are more measurements for 'quality of life' than what your W2 states at the end of the year... I took some minor grants (mostly for materials as a practicing artist) but paid the majority of my tuition in loans (mine) that the military paid off when i completed my service...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #52 July 1, 2004 Went to college and grad school. Ran away at 17, no parental support at all. For undergrad, part scholarship, part working (all at the same time I was teaching clarinet/sax lessons, babysitting, teaching biology labs, managing the bio dept animal lab with 500+rats, and midnight waitressing). No debt from undergrad at a private college (westminster college). Grad school I student loaned, grad with 126K debt. Worked to pay for rent, food, etc, so loans were only tuition. I love what I do for a living, but wish I'd gone into construction instead, it's what I truly enjoy. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #53 July 1, 2004 QuoteI was talking more along the lines of "Un Earned Scolarships" the ones that are just given away Do you not see any societal benefit (meaning benefit to everyone as a whole) in having a better educated populace? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #54 July 1, 2004 QuoteDo you not see any societal benefit (meaning benefit to everyone as a whole) in having a better educated populace? It is unnecessary for the majority of our society to have a four year education. A vast number of jobs are better suited by an associates degree, while an equally large number of jobs are better suited to trade and technical schools rather than academic settings. There are copious quantities of financial aid money that are being wasted. Take a wild guess how many people go to Cancun, have keggers, and purchase big screen TVs with grant money or federally-subsidized loans. I know of multiple such examples, and it isn't just because of the people I know. This is rampant at every school. There is plenty of money in our federally-funded, state schools; it is an issue of using it properly. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #55 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteDo you not see any societal benefit (meaning benefit to everyone as a whole) in having a better educated populace? It is unnecessary for the majority of our society to have a four year education. A vast number of jobs are better suited by an associates degree, while an equally large number of jobs are better suited to trade and technical schools rather than academic settings. There are copious quantities of financial aid money that are being wasted. Take a wild guess how many people go to Cancun, have keggers, and purchase big screen TVs with grant money or federally-subsidized loans. I know of multiple such examples, and it isn't just because of the people I know. This is rampant at every school. There is plenty of money in our federally-funded, state schools; it is an issue of using it properly. Well put. We need peasants. There are too many well educated people already. Those damn povs take our jobs. Rockefeller would be proud. QuoteIn our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way. -1906 Press Release from the Rockefeller Education Board upon announcing their creation of a large public school network. QuoteWe want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks. -Woodrow Wilson Quote"We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes." -Senate Committee on Education -1888 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #56 July 1, 2004 QuoteSo how many scholarships did you turn down so you could do it on your own? Many Universities turn merit based awards into very small "honorariums" based on "need" (i.e. how much your parents earn, regardless of whether or not they are helping you foot the bill). Where I went to school, the merit scholarships that gave a full ride became a $500/yr honorarium if your parents combined made more than about $40,000/yr.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #57 July 1, 2004 weird. none of my merit scholarships have had anything to do with income. heck, I make more than 40K now myself, and still got a 40% merit scholarship to law school. They base it on GPA from undergrad and grad work, LSAT scores, and your personal essay and things like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #58 July 1, 2004 >. A vast number of jobs are better suited by an associates degree . . . And most of them are in India and China. A Chinese riveter will produce as much as an American riveter for 1/10 the cost. >It is unnecessary for the majority of our society to have a four year education. If we start seeing education as largely unneccessary, countries with a better work/education ethic will quickly leave us in the dust. Our future lies in being innovators, inventors and discoverers, not in making cheap plastic toys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #59 July 1, 2004 QuoteWhere I went to school, the merit scholarships that gave a full ride became a $500/yr honorarium if your parents combined made more than about $40,000/yr. Ah yes, preferential treatment based on income. That's fair And of course $40,000/yr is now the filthy rich. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #60 July 1, 2004 QuoteAh yes, preferential treatment based on income. That's fair And of course $40,000/yr is now the filthy rich So I'm assuming that you advocate increased educational assistance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #61 July 1, 2004 QuoteMy question was serious. I am on our university's merit scholarship committee. I'd hate to think that we were giving OUR money away to exellent students, and in the process spoiling their career chances. You've completely changed my mind. I'll never conduct an interview again. I'll just hire the person with the highest GPA (obviously job experience, attitude, involvement in school activities -other than studying of course-, sports, personal financial responsibility, social life, etc doesn't count in evaluating an employee) - Of course, I'll also have to make sure they didn't come from a privileged family - (as you previously noted, those spoiled brats don't really earn their A's and B's so we'll automatically subtract a point off their GPA for every $40K per year on their parent's combined gross income). Thanks for the guidance. You're really exellent at physics. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #62 July 1, 2004 Where did you go to school? I think that this kind of thing mostly happens at public schools (I went to the University of California).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #63 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteAh yes, preferential treatment based on income. That's fair And of course $40,000/yr is now the filthy rich So I'm assuming that you advocate increased educational assistance? That's a tough call. Increasing $$$$ is not always an answer. Is it focused instead? Are the current funds going to those who are already self sufficient or maybe not deserving a merit award. Maybe the funds are fine, but not going to the right people. So can't tell from here. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #64 July 1, 2004 Loyola Marymount for undergrad and graduate, and I'll be going to Chapman for law. Both private schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #65 July 1, 2004 USMA, I didn't pay for a thing except initial uniform issue and a mandatory five years in the Army. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #66 July 1, 2004 QuoteI think working full time and putting myself through college was worth 100 times more to potential employers than my high GPA also. (I'll hire a 3.0 who did it on his own above a 4.0 who had it all paid for - every time) I guess I'm one of those kids who got a "free" ride that you refer to. To make it worse, I went to private universities. However, my under-grad GPA was a 3.71 and my post-grad GPA was a 3.8. I did hold down a part-time job while in school and I also earned a scholarship that was based on GPA and community service. BTW, I was never asked in a job interview how my education was paid for. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vitus 0 #67 July 2, 2004 thank god that in the country i live in, all education is basically free - i might consider though to go to the US for a year or so since i like their approach to education I'm Austrian - NOT AUSTRALIAN !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #68 July 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteAll that education, and you still drive a Ford? - Loved my Mustang GT. However, you're behind the times by more than a year. Now I have a GTS Eclipse. ltdiver Well, update your avatar pic! You should trade that thing for a Subaru STI! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #69 July 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteAll that education, and you still drive a Ford? - Loved my Mustang GT. However, you're behind the times by more than a year. Now I have a GTS Eclipse. ltdiver Well, update your avatar pic! You should trade that thing for a Subaru STI! - Test drove the Suburu WRX but passed. I'd get in WAY too much trouble with it. As for the avatar. It's a tribute to a car that went through alot with me the 5 years I owned it. Oh, the stories it could tell! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
