What should the drinking age be???

[PhillyKev 0]

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I can't say the same thing about most guns.

No, I couldn't build a kimber from scratch in my basement (I'm sure some people could). But I guarantee I could easily build something that will put holes in people with parts from the hardware store.

[AndyMan 7]

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No, I couldn't build a kimber from scratch in my basement (I'm sure some people could). But I guarantee I could easily build something that will put holes in people with parts from the hardware store.

Obviously. Hence the word "most".

What is it with the need to argue every little point? The word "most" clearly implies there are exceptions.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Zenister 0]

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I do not like the idea that people "learn to drink" while they're in their senior years of college, away from their families and exposed only to the "college lifestyle".

I would much rather that people learn to drink in the comfort of their own home, with the supervision and direction of their parents.

growing up in Germany i started drinking wine and beer around age 11, by 14 i was pretty much over the binge/hangover/ i feeling like absolute $%^# for two days phase...

it made going to high school and college in the US rather amusing watching everyone learned what i had long ago...i also got significantly better grades in college and paid more attention in class even when i was drinking/hungover vs the 'newbies' who couldnt function after an all nighter...

the government should hold people responsible for their actions, no matter what they might be under the influence of, not worry about policing what they imbibe in the the first place...it just doesnt work very well...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Fast 0]

I am in the crowd who thinks it should be 18.

It doesn't give people an excuse to drive drunk more, but it does make people have to live up to more reasonable level of responsibility.


Its already been proven that 18 year olds won't not drink just because thats what the laws are so whats the point in trying to fake it. It causes accidents regardless of what the law is.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Zenister 0]

yes but 16 year olds will still drink illegally if the law is 18...leave it to the parents. Punish the individuals when they break laws that affect others...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PhillyKev 0]

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What is it with the need to argue every little point?

Geezus, thought we were having a discussion. I was just clarifying for you. Your statement "clearly implied" to me that you thought guns couldn't be made as easily as wine or pot. Sorry if I misunderstood. Was just trying to enlighten you, wasn't arguing.

[KATO33 0]

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If I'm old enough to take a bullet for my country, then I'm old enough to have a beer for my country.

Ditto

Blue Skies Black Death

[Guest]

I have a great solution to this most vexing problem.

The drinking age and the voting age should be 21, with the exception of the following:

If you are in the military starting at age 18 (BTW - enlistment is waiverable to 17 with parental consent), then and only then, you can both drink and vote. Otherwise, you wait until age 21.

Why grant this? Because when somebody at age 17 or 18 has demonstrated the maturity to make such an adult commitment and shoulder that kind of adult responsibility, then they deserve some of the adult privelege.

One of the things our modern culture lacks is a "rite of passage" to adulthood as practiced by primitives. In leaving tribal culture behind for the comforts of modern society, we've short-changed ourselves.

In ancient Rome, young men at age 14 were considered adults by law. They could marry, own slaves, etc., but they were also Roman Citizens, and that meant a burden of responsibility.

I'd like to see this kind of "rite of passage" in our modern society. It's this lack which has manifested itself in expressions of "Modern Primitivism", IMHO.]

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[PhillyKev 0]

bah....that's elitist.

I joined the military at 18 but couldn't go because of medical reasons. I started working and paying taxes when I was 12, have worked ever since. Lived on my own since I was 19. But because I didn't actively serve in the military I shouldn't have the same rites. Get real.

EDIT:

And to add to that, I believe one of the fundamental principles of the American Revolution was "No taxation without representation." Do you also advocate not taxing anyone under 21 unless they serve in the military since you don't want them to vote?

[kallend 1,660]

If all the 18 - 20 year old voters formed a voting bloc with the declared intention of getting the law changed, they could influence the outcome of practically every election in the country.

Most 18 - 20 year olds I see (and I see a lot) couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery, though.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I think they probably could, it's just that they can't be arsed. Laziness and apathy are the scourge of modern society.

[rocketdog 0]

i'd rather see the smoking age RAISED than the drinking age LOWERED

-- hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[unformed 0]

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The drinking age and the voting age should be 21, with the exception of the following:

If you are in the military starting at age 18 (BTW - enlistment is waiverable to 17 with parental consent), then and only then, you can both drink and vote. Otherwise, you wait until age 21.

Why grant this? Because when somebody at age 17 or 18 has demonstrated the maturity to make such an adult commitment and shoulder that kind of adult responsibility, then they deserve some of the adult privelege.

One of the things our modern culture lacks is a "rite of passage" to adulthood as practiced by primitives. In leaving tribal culture behind for the comforts of modern society, we've short-changed ourselves.

So, I take it you're saying one can't be mature unless he's in the military? Fuck off.

1) There's additional responsibility one can take besides simply joining the military.
2) I've known quite a bit of immature fucks (as well as mature ones) from the military.

Just being part of some organization shouldn't make one better than the rest of society.

This ad space for sale.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

If the "age of majority" is EIGHTEEN, and you can be a legal adult, sign contracts, vote, and join the military (without parental consent), you should also be entitled to drink alcohol and own any legal firearm (handgun, not just long gun).

The idea that there are secondary or tertiary "ages of majority" depending on the subject is bullshit.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kelpdiver 2]

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i'd rather see the smoking age RAISED than the drinking age LOWERED

Even less justification for it, though. Few teens die smoking and driving. Or smoke themselves to death in a frat hazing ritual.

[storm1977 0]

It should be 25!!!!

THere are already too many stupid moronic people that are 21 that show on a daily basis they do not have the maturity yet to handle alcohol!!!!

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[unformed 0]

I assure you that if the drinking age was 25, then all the drunken stupidity and recklessness wouldn't happen at 21, but at 25. Beacuse they had been banned from using for so long, they would indulge when given the opportunity. On the hand, however, if the drinking age was 16 or 18, they would drink themselves retarded at that age, and then grow up and mature. If you don't believe me, look at Europe, where the majority of people drink from an early age (starting with wine with dinner with their families) and the alcoholism rate is much, much lower than that of the States.

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[Ian84 0]

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THere are already too many stupid moronic people that are 21 that show on a daily basis they do not have the maturity yet to handle alcohol!!!!

I wonder if that might be because at 21 they are still being treated like children. I don't consider myself a kid, I'm 19 and it always gets me when I hear Americans my age refer to themselves as kids. Most that I have met do not have nearly the same level of independence that I and my friends back home have. Maybe its just the ones I have met (great people by the way), but they behave very differently to what I am used to.

[kallend 1,660]

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If the "age of majority" is EIGHTEEN, and you can be a legal adult, sign contracts, vote, and join the military (without parental consent), you should also be entitled to drink alcohol and own any legal firearm (handgun, not just long gun).

The idea that there are secondary or tertiary "ages of majority" depending on the subject is bullshit.

What do you think about the age restriction for being President of the USA?
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[rocketdog 0]

i agree.... i'm just making a point. while it is unjustifiable, in my mind, it makes more sense to raise the smoking age (to have all things equal) than to lower the drinking age (to have all things equal) .....make sense?

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[benny 0]

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Why grant this? Because when somebody at age 17 or 18 has demonstrated the maturity to make such an adult commitment and shoulder that kind of adult responsibility, then they deserve some of the adult privelege.

I'm wondering how you and the rest of the group feel about prosecuting children as adults. Surely if we command the same level of responsibility we should offer the same privileges. Seems that anything less would be a violation of the concept of equal treatment under the law.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[kallend 1,660]

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Why grant this? Because when somebody at age 17 or 18 has demonstrated the maturity to make such an adult commitment and shoulder that kind of adult responsibility, then they deserve some of the adult privelege.

I'm wondering how you and the rest of the group feel about prosecuting children as adults. Surely if we command the same level of responsibility we should offer the same privileges. Seems that anything less would be a violation of the concept of equal treatment under the law.

"If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog?
Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg." Abraham Lincoln

And calling a child an adult don't make him one, either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I'm not quite sure how this applies to the list of things quoted above. Beer, wine, and pot are often manufactured in peoples basements, hence they're dificult to control. I can't say the same thing about most guns.

Then you don't know enough about guns.
I myself cannot manufacture a gun on my own, but there are probably thousands of people around this country who can, because they have knowledge, access to tools, and access to materials. Some of them might make very simple guns -- simple, but enough to pull off a stickup. Others can make effective multi-shot guns.

Would a prohibition against guns also include internment of all people who could feasibly design and build a garage-workshop gun? Would it involve burning all books that contain the necessary information on how to do it?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Quote

No, I couldn't build a kimber from scratch in my basement (I'm sure some people could). But I guarantee I cou
?`
?`??mmething that will put holes in people with parts from the hardware store.

Obviously. Hence the word "most".

What is it with the need to argue every little point? The word "most" clearly implies there are exceptions.

_Am

Anyone can qualify a statement to death until it is impossible to assail it.

The point is, banning guns would not result in banning guns. That's when you'd see a growing number of "entrepreneurs" begin making them in underground shops and distributing them among those who want them ... and who do you think would be so interested in having illegal guns? It wouldn't take long for the criminal market to have all the guns it required to ply its trade.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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If the "age of majority" is EIGHTEEN, and you can be a legal adult, sign contracts, vote, and join the military (without parental consent), you should also be entitled to drink alcohol and own any legal firearm (handgun, not just long gun).

The idea that there are secondary or tertiary "ages of majority" depending on the subject is bullshit.

What do you think about the age restriction for being President of the USA?
-