Why do people hate America?

[PhillyKev 0]

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don't have people who live in the desert, substinence farm and have no contact with the outside world,

What about meth labs?

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nor do we have provinces that are so far removed from cities that people can move to a city, work for a year, then return to the province and retire in luxury.

What about the US province of Mexico?

[billvon 2,433]

>Then have at it. I hope you don't have to go and explain this to the
>families of the dead from the next terrorist attack.

I pray you will never need to explain any such things to the families of the US troops who have died so we could "remove" Saddam's WMD's.

>Are you also aware that our Military are being forced to take
> casualties because they have been ordered to reduce the number of
> civilian casulties who get caught in crossfires because you need to
> exercise your unresticted freedom of speech?

They are reducing civilian casualties because it's the right thing to do. Our leaders are not as foolish as you make them out to be. They know that indiscriminate killing of civilians will give Iraqi insurgents fresh recruits for their armies - and they are not so stupid as to give them that, despite the "Glass f*cking parking lot!" comments you hear from the chickenhawks.

> Perhaps you will volunteer to go and explain to their families they
> died so you could express your feelings unrestricted at a time of war.

Have you explained to the families of the over 800 people who died that you are glad we went to war under false pretenses? Or are you just hoping people forget?

[rehmwa 2]

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>But compare the bayou to New York and that's just as big a
> difference as a california boy compared to a Frenchman.

Agreed, for the most part. But those differences pale in . . .s get along with the Zarma. And there is no place in the US (or even Europe) where you can visit that will give you that insight. The Middle East might help though.

We're on the same page. Note that the "well traveled" comment usually comes from someone (example) "in France and . . .(who) visit Luxembourg, Germany, Belgium etc ".

That's the only point I'm making.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Kennedy 0]

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"Dude, did you really just write "tickety boo?""

Yes I did, nice ASCII picture, love it, tip-top.
But try and imagine a broad Clydeside accent, say Billy Connelly, replace the monocle with a welding mask, and your closer to the mark.

I hate to be the one to tell you, but the sounds emanating from people's mouths on Clydeside are not an accent. They are an as yet unrecognized language with no known structure. You know how long it took for me to realize they were saying "Glasgow?" HMOG!

Robin Williams did a passable immitation during his standup in NYC
(HBO - Live on Broadway).

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you want a linguistic adventure, go drinkin with a scotsman...

...and how they could invent a sport like golf...

I'm convinced even the language is the Scots' way of proving how much they can hurt themselves and not care.


oh, and Red Skydiver - I only write or say "dude" when asking either "Dude, WTF?!?" or "Dude, did you really just do that?!?"

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Then have at it. I hope you don't have to go and explain this to the
>families of the dead from the next terrorist attack.

I pray you will never need to explain any such things to the families of the US troops who have died so we could "remove" Saddam's WMD's.

>Are you also aware that our Military are being forced to take
> casualties because they have been ordered to reduce the number of
> civilian casulties who get caught in crossfires because you need to
> exercise your unresticted freedom of speech?

They are reducing civilian casualties because it's the right thing to do. Our leaders are not as foolish as you make them out to be. They know that indiscriminate killing of civilians will give Iraqi insurgents fresh recruits for their armies - and they are not so stupid as to give them that, despite the "Glass f*cking parking lot!" comments you hear from the chickenhawks.

> Perhaps you will volunteer to go and explain to their families they
> died so you could express your feelings unrestricted at a time of war.

Have you explained to the families of the over 800 people who died that you are glad we went to war under false pretenses? Or are you just hoping people forget?

The majority of the troops in Iraq understand why they are there. Unlike many of those in the U.S. They ask only that they be allowed to do their jobs. When liberal loudmouths who can do nothing but constantly whine and bitch based only on what they read in the newspapers with their morning cup of coffee are able to affect how they do their jobs and that causes our troops, yours and my friends, neighbors and fellow skydivers to die, then I'd say that said loudmouths need to voluntarily re-evaluate their rhetoric. I would also suggest they try to view their words and criticisms in the eyes of our enemies.

BTW I call bullshit on every one of you who blames GWB for starting the war. Even Putin calls your Bullshit.

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The Kremlin leader, answering a reporter's question in Sea Island, Georgia, suggested that the Democrats were two-faced in criticizing Bush on Iraq since it had been the Clinton administration that authorized the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia by U.S. and NATO (news - web sites) forces.


The reporter had asked Putin to respond to U.S. press articles questioning Russia's place at the G8 feast of leading industrial countries.


Putin brushed these off, saying such articles were part of an internal U.S. political debate.


He went on: "I am deeply convinced that President Bush's political adversaries have no moral right to attack him over Iraq because they did exactly the same.


"It suffices to recall Yugoslavia. Now look at them. They don't like what President Bush is doing in Iraq."

So you can keep on talking that Bullshit if it makes you feel better but it is what it is..Bullshit!!!!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I hate to be the one to tell you, but the sounds emanating from people's mouths on Clydeside are not an accent. They are an as yet unrecognized language with no known structure."

You're probably closer to the truth than you think.

Dont' put up with passable imitations, next time you are in the video rental store, grab a Billy Connolly, and giggle. There's not enough giggling in the world these days. Or there are a few MP3s kicking around on the net, I'll translate for you if you need it.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Cry "Bullshit" as loud as you like, it will not make you (or Bush) right.

And you can talk as much Bullshit as you like and it won't make you right.

[Tonto 1]

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And you can talk as much Bullshit as you like and it won't make you right.

And that, sir, is why so many people hate the US.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[jimbarry 0]

Ok, I'm new here, and I know this might be a bit long, but...

I'd like to suggest that during an election year, both sides will over-emphasize points which they can make to draw swing voters their way and also criticize, through fact (or half-truths, or seemingly plausible fallacies) the other side.

We probably won't all get back to the facts until after November.

But I'd also like to suggest we revisit a few other facts here which for the past primary cycle through today (and probably through the convention season) have been downplayed when they should be remembered and considered when thinking about the US military approach toward Iraq.

- Saddam's regime DID have WMD at some point, even if the last time even election-year democrats will admit he had them was at some point during the late 80s (remember the Kurds and Chemical Ali?) even through the liberation of Kuwait of the early 90s. Saddam admitted that he had them and agreed to the UN to destroy them and allow the UN to independently verify this. He didn't. For 12 years.

- Iraq's agreement with the UN included the possibility of the redeployment of troops to enforce its requirements if Iraq decided not to play along. And again, we all waited 12 years.

- If Saddam agreed to disarm, but then refused to comply with orders to verify, then we are fully allowed to conclude he still has them. Whether he actually has them or not. Tough beans, it's national defense.

- 18 months ago, the shouting was for the US and the UN to give the inspectors more time to find the WMDs. FIND THE WMDs??? The inspectors' job wasn't to FIND the weapons, it was supposed to be Iraqs job to produce the weapons for destruction or document their destruction and for the "inspectors" to verify it all. I could hide some of those kinds of weapons from 100 inspectors in my small home town, let alone across a nation as large as Iraq, and maybe even Syria and Iran too. (Remember what Saddam did during Gulf I sending his prime air force to Iran!?!)

- It was the Iraqi oil interests and investments of France, Germany, and Russia that kept them against this war, it wasn't the US wanting to steal oil that put us there, otherwise we'd have taken it already (and would have taken it in '91 too, and didn't)

- It was Clinton who put the US on a foreign policy of regime change in Iraq. It's just clear to everyone now that was just hot air. Didn't intend to do anything about it.

- UN key leaders on "food for oil" kick backs certainly didn't discourage Saddam's 12-year heel dragging either.

Facts above, and my conclusions below...

- Watching Bush talk off the cuff, and answer simple questions is laughable if it weren't incredibly embarrassing. Probably the dumbest least articulate president we've had all century. (wait, new century), even last century. For cryin' out loud, Reagan died, and he had to read, YES READ, his heartfelt comments. His press conf after Tenet resigned was downright painful to listen to. Oh my god, he's got to go. But we didn't elect him (the electoral college did, with supreme court help) to be a dictator, we elected an ADMINISTRATION of which he is the chief executive. His administration showed true leadership at a time with regards to Iraq. Leadership which no one else would show.

-And finally, if Bush had done nothing, and allowed Saddam's programs to grow, and gave them to terrorist groups (what, he had NO ties to ANY terrorist groups?), it would be the liberals blaming Bush right now for whatever continued attacks the US and its friends would have endured post-9/11, and not taking action to stop them.


Or we can just all blame April Glaspie and Ahmed Chalabi...

[wmw999 2,148]

I'm sorry. That's entirely too balanced a perspective for this forum.
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,433]

>The majority of the troops in Iraq understand why they are there.

As long as they can keep up with the latest reason, which I assume nowadays is "fighting terror."

Yesterday I flew back to San Diego from Dallas. In the row behind me, a woman was talking to a Marine about his upcoming deployment. She was vocal in her dislike for the war. She asked him about the big stink concerning the Marine who was a conscientious objector, and if he would consider doing such a thing.

"Ma'am, I just don't know," he said. "I don't know about this war."

So at least some do not understand it.

>Unlike many of those in the U.S. They ask only that they be allowed
>to do their jobs.

?? They do what they are ordered to do. That's what makes the military different from US society. Claiming that "the military believes in what they are doing, and they are good people, therefore they are correct" is like claiming that all soldiers and generals from Hussein's government should be shot because they clearly hated the US, killed tens of thousands, and invaded our ally.

>BTW I call bullshit on every one of you who blames GWB for starting
>the war. Even Putin calls your Bullshit.

?? Are you one of those people who claim that, when someone holds up a 7-11, it's not his fault but the fault of society? Bush leads our troops. He ordered the invasion of Iraq. To claim "he didn't start this war" is self-deception of a scale usually reserved for the USSR's Five Year Plans.

[skydyvr 0]

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Probably the dumbest least articulate president we've had all century. (wait, new century), even last century.

Inarticulate, positively. Dumb? Not at all. He's a man of average intelligence, above average personability, and below average public speaking ability.

I'm not the biggest Bush fan on the planet, but I also see no reason to distort who he actually is.

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For cryin' out loud, Reagan died, and he had to read, YES READ, his heartfelt comments.

And so did every other speaker there. Polititions and professional speakers of all kinds do that. The trick is to become skilled enough using the teleprompter or your notes to make it appear as though you aren't reading. GWB did a fair job of that during the eulogy.

. . =(_8^(1)

[jimbarry 0]

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Inarticulate, positively. Dumb? Not at all. I'm not the biggest Bush fan on the planet, but I also see no reason to distort who he actually is.

I believe my view to be reasonably formulated and unexaggerated based on how I as a citizen believes he has performed. But it differs from your view and I respect that.

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>>For cryin' out loud, Reagan died, and he had to read, YES READ, his heartfelt comments.

And so did every other speaker there. Polititions and professional speakers of all kinds do that. The trick is to become skilled enough using the teleprompter or your notes to make it appear as though you aren't reading. GWB did a fair job of that during the eulogy.

I wasn't referring to the eulogy (which occurred after my initial post). I doubt many could do a eulogy well, unprepared. I was referring to when the press caught him shortly after Reagan's death was announced. His manner was stilted and hence came off as insincere. Please tell me you also saw his 'Tenet's resignation' announcement. I wanted to scream. And I think I did.

No doubt, he's great with a teleprompter. But when he is in a position of communicating directly with someone or with the press, it's painful and embarrassing.

But, back to why people hate america:

Too many lives are at stake right now. Our country's future and relations with other nations are at stake right now. We need a leader! To lead you need to communicate. To communicate, you need to have well organized thoughts, based on your experience and values, and articulate them sincerely and effectively. I've never seen Bush do anything like that. And that includes the "bullhorn" speech down near ground zero shortly after 9/11, which was close.

And ok, I don't *know* that he's dumb, but his actions don't leave me with any other opinion.

Look, I support him and agree with many the goals of his administration. I just never get the feeling he's the one driving the boat; just seems to be going thru the motions.

And this is just one small, yet important and preventable reason why I think some hate America. Because if Bush is a bit more of a puppet than other presidents we've had recently, then the true leaders of this country are behind the scenes, and that makes me damn suspicious.

But then lastly, let's also remember that some that hate america also include:

-Iraqi insurrectionists who attack americans AND their own people (police, army, politicians) working toward democracy. And their ill-informed followers. They'd rather have us gone, because right now their weapons are stronger than the democracy movement.

-Middle eastern dictators and monarchies who brainwash their people into fabricating america to be attacking islam in general, to keep their minds deflected from the fact that the leaders live in extreme wealth while the people live in poverty. Inventing foreign enemies to pacify the people from domestic problems is hardly a new concept.

[Lindsey 0]

I think GWB was hypo-gifted with intelligence. And I LOVE America, despite many of our current policies. My devotion to this country in no way implies any disrespect for people abroad (meaning abroad from here because I realize that we might be a TAD egocentric as a whole).

Peace~
Lindsey