pajarito 0 #26 March 5, 2004 Locked up is definitely the way to go. My kids are pretty ingenious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #27 March 5, 2004 This one leaves me speachless. This is scary! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #28 March 5, 2004 I can't spell for shit. Speechless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #29 March 5, 2004 Common sense isn't so common anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #30 March 6, 2004 School boards, not teachers, make school policies. Since school boards are (mostly) elected. If the local people think the policies are stupid they have only themselves to blame.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #32 March 6, 2004 Maybe the NRA should rally for conceal/carry laws for our school children???? While some of the zero tolerance gets out of hand...imagine how it would sound on the news if after another school shooting they find out a teacher overlooked the gun because he thought it was a cap gun, pellett gun, etc? Now, go ask the parents from Columbine how they feel about all of this. Imagine the type of anti-gun legislation would come down upon the industry if more kids were killed this way? You want your gun rights? Then you need this sort of stuff when it comes to kids. Somehow I think that the courts wouldn't have a problem with a large settlement against the gun industry if another massacre happened. Think._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #33 March 6, 2004 Who here has seen bowling for columbine, and what did you all think about it, and how it relates to john's original posts? --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #34 March 6, 2004 Do a search, no one wants to get into that again. If you'd really like to discuss it again, start a thread.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #35 March 6, 2004 >imagine how it would sound on the news if after another school > shooting they find out a teacher overlooked the gun because he > thought it was a cap gun, pellett gun, etc? No one's talking about overlooking them. "Hey Kenny, what's that you have in your pocket? Let me see that. A cap gun? You know that's not allowed in school. I'm going to have to keep this and you have detention." How is that overlooking them? >Then you need this sort of stuff when it comes to kids. I think you need more common sense. Teachers are generally pretty good at managing kids, it being their job and all. A kid who wants to kill his classmates can do so with a bomb as easily as with a gun. In the Columbine massacre, the two kids responsible brought bombs as well as guns into the school, but the bombs either didn't go off or weren't set off. Had they been detonated I don't think parents of dead kids would have said "Phew! I would have been upset, but since my child was killed by a bomb instead of a gun, that's OK." So what's the answer? Give teachers the latitude to reach the kids who want to kill their friends, not require them to suspend the kid who forgets to take the blue plastic water pistol out of his backpack after playing with his friends after school. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #36 March 6, 2004 QuoteMaybe the NRA should rally for conceal/carry laws for our school children???? How about if they rallied for concealed carry for teachers? See how the survivors of Appalachian Law School and that Pearl, Miss high school feel about that idea. [since you'll have trouble finding the facts, the law school shoot up was stopped by a student with a gun and the high school shooting was stopped when the assistant principal went to his car and retrieved his gun; in both cases the shooter lived to see trial] QuoteWhile some of the zero tolerance gets out of hand...imagine how it would sound on the news if after another school shooting they find out a teacher overlooked the gun because he thought it was a cap gun, pellett gun, etc? Now, go ask the parents from Columbine how they feel about all of this. What would be so hard about taking away a toy gun until after school? If it were a real gun and the kid had intent, do you think a threat of expulsion will slow him down. Do you think it would have stopped Harris and Klebold? (sp?) And FYI, some parents from Columbine testified before congress saying you can't blame guns, that you have to blame parents and society. QuoteImagine the type of anti-gun legislation would come down upon the industry if more kids were killed this way? You want your gun rights? Then you need this sort of stuff when it comes to kids. Somehow I think that the courts wouldn't have a problem with a large settlement against the gun industry if another massacre happened. Good luck with that law suit. Dozens have been thrown out, more are on the way out, and I think 38 states now have laws barring such lawsuits. You can't blame a manufacturer of a legal product if it is misused.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #37 March 6, 2004 Bill, sometimes I could just kiss you. [good thing you're in California, and it would take longer to get there than come to my senses] witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #38 March 6, 2004 You reminded me of an old cartoon. I managed to dig it up, so here it is.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swoopyswoop 0 #39 March 6, 2004 Man thats a tough one. When I was in high school we had a trap club. However in todays society the kid should have been responsible enough to know better than to bring the firearm to school. Common sense would tell you that. "when I die, I want to go like my grandfather while im sleeping, not like the passengers riding in the car with me Swoopster A.S.S. #6 Future T.S.S holder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #40 March 6, 2004 Just got back. Nice answers guys. I couldn't have responded better than that. Billvon, I'm glad you're an equal opportunity insulter. I was beginning to think it was just me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #41 March 6, 2004 While I am not the biggest gun supporter, it is one of the rights given to us as citizens and I support that right just as much as free speech (and I do have my FOID). I believe in balance and moderation and anyone that takes such rights to an extreme do not have the best interest of the country in mind. Guns and speech may be "free" but both require a certain amount of responsiblity. That said - I am not a teacher but I spent 4 summers working with kids in high risk areas of Chicago. I worked along side the teachers that volunteered their time to make sure these kids didn't end up as another stat. Giving a time out or detention to a trouble student that would bring zero tolerance items to class/camp usually had them quiting the program and ending up in a gang. Yes, it is the responsiblity of the parents, etc....I don't disagree with you there. However, some of these kids didn't have that environment and they knew how to solve problems with violence. I'm sure the issues in the suburbs are not quite as extreme, but the angst seems to be the same. Zero tolerance is not the answer, and I am not certain what the answer really is. I know the reality is that either way a kid that wants to do damage will...I've tried to help and gave up in severe frustration when I saw some of the kids end up in jail for murder. However, throwing around the NRA angry stick isn't the answer._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shawndiver 0 #42 March 6, 2004 Here's a good example of zero tolerance lunacy, it is now illegal to bring nuts to school because of some of the kids may be allergic. You can now be expelled for brandishing a peanut butter sandwich. Relevant article is at the bottom of the page. Shawn clicky _________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #43 March 6, 2004 Well hell, I'd be glad if they just cleaned up the poison ivy/oak/sumac that is around so many school. when I was a kid even walking with 10 feet of the stuff put me in intensive care. Now it's peanut allergies leading to zero tolerance of all nuts. Well I have to tell you banning nuts won't help, because they're not nuts, they're legunes. (sp?) Are they going to ban poorly kept lawns anywhere in school zones? I mean come on, some kids have really nasty hay fever.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b1jercat 0 #44 March 6, 2004 Quote Man thats a tough one. When I was in high school we had a trap club. However in todays society the kid should have been responsible enough to know better than to bring the firearm to school. Common sense would tell you that. Your mention of the trap club brings back fond memories, I loaded trap for the sportsman club every thursday night for five years. I started when I was 11 and was paid 3.00 a night I quit at 16/8.00 a night. Some times if it was snowing hard we would switch to black pidgins and rock on. It was a great place to hang out when you are a kid and make money too. blue skies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #45 March 6, 2004 QuoteAnother: A 10-year-old boy (in Australia) was found on the school bus with a single bullet in his possession (no gun). Police went to the boy's home and confiscated $3,000 worth of firearms from his father, and plan to destroy the guns. News Story What if this lone bullet didn't come from his father or the fathers collection? As a kid I remember finding bullets in trucks, tool boxes, or wherever when it was time to clean up. Never were they from my father. This response doen't sound like due process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b1jercat 0 #46 March 6, 2004 I would agree with you Vectorboy and thats what troubles me the most in this aspect with regards to other areas of our society. There just doesn't seem to be any common sense anymore. I wish I had a solution, but until you get equal time in the schools that other hot button topics (Gays , Race, Diversity) get I don't see anything changing. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #47 March 6, 2004 Very good point...but, even if it did come from his Dad's huge freakin' stockpile hidden in his closet at home, it still doesn't justify what happened. They would meet with some deadly opposition if that was tried more than once or twice here in Georgia or elsewhere in the South. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #48 March 6, 2004 Damn...I hope they don't come get mine now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #49 March 6, 2004 QuoteWhile I am not the biggest gun supporter, it is one of the rights given to us as citizens and I support that right just as much as free speech (and I do have my FOID). I believe in balance and moderation and anyone that takes such rights to an extreme do not have the best interest of the country in mind. Guns and speech may be "free" but both require a certain amount of responsiblity. I'm with you on most of that, but how do you think people would react if they had to political speech IDs, or if the press had to be federally licensed and every newspaper had to go through the rigors of the gun industry? [for those who don't know, the FOID is the Firearms Owner IDentification card required by some states simply to own a gun; doesn't even grant carry status] I got that acronym right, didn't I? QuoteZero tolerance is not the answer [and the rest of your post] You and I are on the same page here. We need capable leaders with the flexability to work with kids who really can't operate in society. It's scary when you meet a kid whose only answer to any problem is violence or abuse. They need help, not soundbites and catchphrases.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdgregory 0 #50 March 6, 2004 Quote School boards, not teachers, make school policies. Since school boards are (mostly) elected. If the local people think the policies are stupid they have only themselves to blame. THIS ASSUMES YOU VOTED FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OFFICE. I cannot be held responsible for bullshit policies that go into effect against MY vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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ChasingBlueSky 0 #41 March 6, 2004 While I am not the biggest gun supporter, it is one of the rights given to us as citizens and I support that right just as much as free speech (and I do have my FOID). I believe in balance and moderation and anyone that takes such rights to an extreme do not have the best interest of the country in mind. Guns and speech may be "free" but both require a certain amount of responsiblity. That said - I am not a teacher but I spent 4 summers working with kids in high risk areas of Chicago. I worked along side the teachers that volunteered their time to make sure these kids didn't end up as another stat. Giving a time out or detention to a trouble student that would bring zero tolerance items to class/camp usually had them quiting the program and ending up in a gang. Yes, it is the responsiblity of the parents, etc....I don't disagree with you there. However, some of these kids didn't have that environment and they knew how to solve problems with violence. I'm sure the issues in the suburbs are not quite as extreme, but the angst seems to be the same. Zero tolerance is not the answer, and I am not certain what the answer really is. I know the reality is that either way a kid that wants to do damage will...I've tried to help and gave up in severe frustration when I saw some of the kids end up in jail for murder. However, throwing around the NRA angry stick isn't the answer._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawndiver 0 #42 March 6, 2004 Here's a good example of zero tolerance lunacy, it is now illegal to bring nuts to school because of some of the kids may be allergic. You can now be expelled for brandishing a peanut butter sandwich. Relevant article is at the bottom of the page. Shawn clicky _________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #43 March 6, 2004 Well hell, I'd be glad if they just cleaned up the poison ivy/oak/sumac that is around so many school. when I was a kid even walking with 10 feet of the stuff put me in intensive care. Now it's peanut allergies leading to zero tolerance of all nuts. Well I have to tell you banning nuts won't help, because they're not nuts, they're legunes. (sp?) Are they going to ban poorly kept lawns anywhere in school zones? I mean come on, some kids have really nasty hay fever.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #44 March 6, 2004 Quote Man thats a tough one. When I was in high school we had a trap club. However in todays society the kid should have been responsible enough to know better than to bring the firearm to school. Common sense would tell you that. Your mention of the trap club brings back fond memories, I loaded trap for the sportsman club every thursday night for five years. I started when I was 11 and was paid 3.00 a night I quit at 16/8.00 a night. Some times if it was snowing hard we would switch to black pidgins and rock on. It was a great place to hang out when you are a kid and make money too. blue skies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #45 March 6, 2004 QuoteAnother: A 10-year-old boy (in Australia) was found on the school bus with a single bullet in his possession (no gun). Police went to the boy's home and confiscated $3,000 worth of firearms from his father, and plan to destroy the guns. News Story What if this lone bullet didn't come from his father or the fathers collection? As a kid I remember finding bullets in trucks, tool boxes, or wherever when it was time to clean up. Never were they from my father. This response doen't sound like due process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #46 March 6, 2004 I would agree with you Vectorboy and thats what troubles me the most in this aspect with regards to other areas of our society. There just doesn't seem to be any common sense anymore. I wish I had a solution, but until you get equal time in the schools that other hot button topics (Gays , Race, Diversity) get I don't see anything changing. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #47 March 6, 2004 Very good point...but, even if it did come from his Dad's huge freakin' stockpile hidden in his closet at home, it still doesn't justify what happened. They would meet with some deadly opposition if that was tried more than once or twice here in Georgia or elsewhere in the South. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #48 March 6, 2004 Damn...I hope they don't come get mine now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #49 March 6, 2004 QuoteWhile I am not the biggest gun supporter, it is one of the rights given to us as citizens and I support that right just as much as free speech (and I do have my FOID). I believe in balance and moderation and anyone that takes such rights to an extreme do not have the best interest of the country in mind. Guns and speech may be "free" but both require a certain amount of responsiblity. I'm with you on most of that, but how do you think people would react if they had to political speech IDs, or if the press had to be federally licensed and every newspaper had to go through the rigors of the gun industry? [for those who don't know, the FOID is the Firearms Owner IDentification card required by some states simply to own a gun; doesn't even grant carry status] I got that acronym right, didn't I? QuoteZero tolerance is not the answer [and the rest of your post] You and I are on the same page here. We need capable leaders with the flexability to work with kids who really can't operate in society. It's scary when you meet a kid whose only answer to any problem is violence or abuse. They need help, not soundbites and catchphrases.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #50 March 6, 2004 Quote School boards, not teachers, make school policies. Since school boards are (mostly) elected. If the local people think the policies are stupid they have only themselves to blame. THIS ASSUMES YOU VOTED FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OFFICE. I cannot be held responsible for bullshit policies that go into effect against MY vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
