School - Gun - Zero Tolerance

[Amazon 7]

Notice I do try to stay out of the incessant see saw of the gun threads.. I am a long time gun owner and hunter shooter.. and NRA member... BUT sometimes the "saved" get a bit far too fanatical as do the religous "saved"

Some of the crap just gets way too deep and philosophical....


Oh look shiney things laying in all the doo doo

[Kennedy 0]

I just hope nobody mistakes your "shiny things" with his DILLAFs. They (his) do get a bit annoying. I think yours are funny, especially when well timed.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Amazon 7]

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I think yours are funny, especially when well timed.

Well think about this whenever you see me post.. oh look shiny things... I will be giggling hysterically...


That sort of happens to me sometimes.. at inopportune times

[Douva 0]

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Another:

A 6-year-old brought a toy cap gun to school, which he had received as a birthday gift, to show his friends. The boy was suspended from school for half a day. The principle said; "There was no intent, but any kind of toy weapon is unacceptable and can't be allowed in school."

News Story

I can remember when we'd have "Western Day" in elementary school, and just about every kid in school would be wearing a pair of paper cap six-shooters.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[JohnRich 4]

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My daughter suffers from a tumor on her spine and was given a pretty severe pain medication for when it got really bad. Percaset or soemthing similar. She had a doctor's note for it so she would not get suspened. THis was for when it got really severe. Usually she just carried advil and took it. A teacher saw it in her purse sent her to the office and she was suspended! For Advil? Common sense has completely gone the way of the dinosaur.

Yep, we could do another whole identical thread titled "School - Drugs - Zero Tolerance", which many similar ridiculous examples of abuse and lack of common sense.

[JohnRich 4]

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Maybe the NRA should rally for conceal/carry laws for our school children????

We're talking about harmless toys, not real guns.

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While some of the zero tolerance gets out of hand...imagine how it would sound on the news if after another school shooting they find out a teacher overlooked the gun because he thought it was a cap gun, pellett gun, etc?

If in doubt, confiscate it, and get the parents involved. However, we're not talking about such cases here. These cases are just simple, obvious toys, or things like scissors.

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Now, go ask the parents from Columbine how they feel about all of this.

The parents of Columbine students do not get to tell everyone else in America, who wasn't responsible for that shooting, how they should be allowed to live with their guns.

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Imagine the type of anti-gun legislation would come down upon the industry if more kids were killed this way?

Toy guns are not real guns. Do you understand the difference? You seem to be equating the two as equal in deadliness...

[JohnRich 4]

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Man thats a tough one. When I was in high school we had a trap club. However in todays society the kid should have been responsible enough to know better than to bring the firearm to school. Common sense would tell you that.

Do you think that accidental innocent behavior, should be punished the same as intentional criminal behavior?

[Douva 0]

I'm not going to read every post in this thread because these gun threads wear me out. I would just like to comment on so-called "gun free zones," such as churches and schools. These laws represent the same types of ineffective, feel good legislation as the so-called "assault weapons ban." These laws operate on one of two ridiculous assumptions. They assume that either a person intent on committing capital murder will be deterred by the possibility of committing a misdemeanor or minor felony or that the presence of a gun is likely to cause law abiding citizens to snap, without warning, and turn into murderous lunatics. The idea that these "gun free zones" are places where law abiding citizens have absolutely no use for a gun has been disproved over and over as defenseless, law abiding citizens have been gunned down in churches and schools by madmen with absolutely no regard for what laws they are violating. Many people quickly flew into an emotional tizzy when George W. Bush, as governor of Texas, signed a bill that allowed holders of concealed handgun licenses to carry their weapons in church. This legislation came on the heels of a mass shooting at a church in Fort Worth (somebody correct me if I have the location wrong) by a lunatic who neither cared what laws he was violating nor possessed a concealed handgun license. Allowing citizens who have passed multiple background checks, multiple fingerprint checks, attended a course on the legal and prudent use of lethal force, and passed written and shooting tests to discretely carry handguns in church hasn't caused an increase in these types of shootings in the years since the law was passed. If anything, it's made Texas houses of worship safer. If many of the antigun activists could put emotion aside and look at the facts, removing "gun free zone" restrictions from schools might be seen as an equally prudent move. Students can still be restricted from bringing guns to school without the "gun free zone" designations. Americans must realize that laws need to be based on fact and sound logic, not simply emotion or our personal views on an issue. In my opinion, too many of the issues before congress, from gun control to a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, are being fueled by emotional further, rather than fact. We are a nation governed by a rule of law, not personal ideals.

--Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[JohnRich 4]

Related Story:

"By the beginning of 2005, Syracuse University will begin training and arming Public Safety officers as they're given Peace Officer status. Over the next three years, 47 officers will be given weapons training and provided new equipment in helping them handle crime on and near the campus.

"But not everyone supports the move. A student faculty group, Students Against Firearm Enhancement, (SAFE), says putting weapons in the hands of campus security will increase the danger of confrontation. 'Guns have been linked to an atmosphere of fear, and fear would create more fear, and maybe students who before didn't feel the need to arm themselves will feel the need to arm themselves...'"

Full Story

So these students are afraid of guns in the hands of trained police officers?

Maybe they should talk to these college students in Massachusetts:

"In the weeks following the sexual assault that occurred in the rear of Linsley Hall, some female FSC students have had increased concerns about campus safety. The suspect held her at knifepoint, and... the student was 'groped.'

"...several students made suggestions for what campus officials can do to improve safety. The first was the possibility of arming campus police officers... Caroline Manning, a freshman, questioned campus police's effectiveness in a situation involving a weapon. 'How are they going to stop someone? If they are state police on campus, why don't they have guns like other state police? How would they apprehend a criminal?'"

Full Story

[JohnRich 4]

Next:

"A 16-year-old student wrote a poem three years ago, which included the line 'I drew my gun and Bang Bang, Bang Bang'.

"The school district responded by imposing a 17-day suspension, on the grounds that it was acting to ensure the safety of pupils from a possible threat. Other causes of concern about the student included how he dressed and his 'disturbing' background.

"The suspension has been upheld by a federal appeals court. The court ruled that while the right to free speech might protect the contents of the poem, the school was still entitled to act in response to a perceived danger."

Full Story

[JohnRich 4]

Another:

"A ten-year-old Florida girl was playing 'Civil War' with a friend at school during recess. She picked up an oak leaf from the ground, and pointed it at her friend like a gun.

"Within hours, the girl was in the principal's office, facing accusations that she had threatened to kill the girl. The action was deemed a violation of the school's zero weapon tolerance policy, and the girl was suspended from school for a day. The principal said that everyone, including 10-year-old girls need to understand that certain behavior, actions and use of words will not be tolerated."

Full Story

[JohnRich 4]

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I can remember when we'd have "Western Day" in elementary school, and just about every kid in school would be wearing a pair of paper cap six-shooters.

Related story:

"Raleigh Boaze is a Maryland history buff and historical re-enactor who likes to teach school students about what life was like for 18th-century settlers in America. He does so dressed in buckskin breeches, with a Bowie knife and a musket.

"But not in Washington County, Maryland, any more. School officials say both the knife and rifle are now prohibited weapons on school property, and that his muzzleloading rifle sends the wrong message to children. 'The way kids are today, they could grab one of those and make a weapon of their own,' school board president Robert Kline said."

Reference

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Not that you would even care about my opinion, but here's my take on this whole zero-tolerance issue:

1) If it's obvious that the child has a toy (little GI Joe rifle that fits in your palm or even a tree branch), then it's kind of ridicilous to be disciplining these children with this whole zero-tolerance thing-a-ma-bob.

2) If the child brings a toy gun to school (it resembles a gun, but it's obviously a toy because didn't the toy manufacturers have to change how toy guns are presented ... such as the muzzle needs to be a certain color, etc, etc, etc). Then the child and the parents need to be talked to so that they know these sort of toys do not belong in school. But throwing the book at the student just doesn't seem right.

3) If the child either brings a replica or a real weapon to school, then throw the book at them. Times have changes. There's been enough school shootings to make society change their views on allowing weapons into what's supposed to be a safe environment. I'm not against having school sanctioned gun clubs (in an adult supervised controlled environment). But weapons of any kind really do not belong in schools and the children need to know this.

Flame away as we all know you won't agree with me. Just remember that I am not going to get sucked into this debating thread as I wonder why new gun threads have to be brought up week after week here on DZ.COM.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[JohnRich 4]

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I would just like to comment on so-called "gun free zones," such as churches and schools. These laws represent the same types of ineffective, feel good legislation as the so-called "assault weapons ban."

And in addition to your excellent comments, I would add this:

All they end up doing is getting law-abiding people arrested for innocent behavior. Where I live, I can't travel hardly anywhere without passing within 1,000' of a school. So I would end up being a "criminal", just by innocently going about my daily business, when I'm legal everywhere else with a gun.

These kinds of laws result in the same idiotic enforcement that we see with these zero-tolerance examples. They treat innocent people as if they are criminals. They assume criminal intent, where none is present. This is wrong!

[JohnRich 4]

Next story:

'A fifth-grader was taken from a Tampa, Florida, elementary school in handcuffs Wednesday after a teacher found drawings he had made of weapons. The 11-year-old was not charged with a crime. The boy was taken to meet with his parents and counselors. The boy has received a discipline, but officials decline to discuss it. But they said the boy probably won't return for the rest of the year. 'We just need to get it through kids' heads that there are certain things you don't say and there are certain things you don't draw,' he said."

Full Story

[panzwami 0]

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exactly! what's next? pencils? better not hold it wrong....

yeah, no kidding.

sooo....if I come to school and beat some kid over the head with my calculus book (which in my case was huge and had to weigh four or five pounds), are they going to ban calculus books? After all, they're deadly weapons....

Matt
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[Douva 0]

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Next story:

'A fifth-grader was taken from a Tampa, Florida, elementary school in handcuffs Wednesday after a teacher found drawings he had made of weapons. The 11-year-old was not charged with a crime. The boy was taken to meet with his parents and counselors. The boy has received a discipline, but officials decline to discuss it. But they said the boy probably won't return for the rest of the year. 'We just need to get it through kids' heads that there are certain things you don't say and there are certain things you don't draw,' he said."

Full Story

I would have never made it through school under today's rules. I drew pictures of battle scenes in the back of my notebooks, I made toy guns on of click pens, I played shoot 'em up at recess, and I once brought two real swords to school because I thought they'd be useful in the school play we were putting on (they were). Those are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head that would probably have gotten me expelled. The people who support these rules because "times have changed," don't seem to understand that most children have not changed. Children don't understand why playing with a cap gun at home is harmless fun, but bringing it to school is a serious crime. They don't understand how a drawing threatens anybody. They don't understand how a creative writing assignment suddenly turns from an essay into a psychological evaluation when one of the characters gets shot. They're just kids. Most of us seem to have forgotten how simple the minds of most children really are. We expect them to be little adults. They're not little adults, and it's not healthy to expect them to be.

--Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Kennedy 0]

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I would have never made it through school under today's rules.

I never would have made it through grade school.

I was in one fight protecting a kid who was smaller than me. I don't remember who or why, but I remember my dad being proud of me for it.

I brought a plsatic tomahawk to school for a play.

Cops 'n Robbers, Cowboys 'n Indians, every possible variation on playground war, yep, we played them.

Lord knows I drew some imaginative things when I was bored.

I think I'd have been lucky to make it through third grade the way some places have things are now.

You know dodgeball is not allowed on some playgrounds now because it separates kids into who is "in" and who is "out."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Luv2Fall 0]

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I would have never made it through school under today's rules.

You know dodgeball is not allowed on some playgrounds now because it separates kids into who is "in" and who is "out."

Man, what have we become?

[Kennedy 0]

a nation of soft bodied, thin skinned, therapy needing, PCist, momma's boys with a nanny state government?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Luv2Fall 0]

...sounds about right.

[steve1 5]

I've worked in a public school for 20 years now. I also grew up with guns and hunting. I often brought my rifle or shotgun to High School in my pickup, if I planned on hunting or shooting after school. It was no big deal back in the 60's and most farm kids I knew did the same. When I was just twelve years old I walked into a sporting good store and bought a new 22 rifle that I had saved up for and walked out of the store with it alone. You can't do that now days. But again I was taught gun safety from the time I was very young. My how things have changed!

Today I see kids expelled for even bringing a BB gun or small knife to school. I have a hard time understanding some of the mentality behind zero tollerance on this subject......Steve1

[Jimbo 0]

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a nation of soft bodied, thin skinned, therapy needing, PCist, momma's boys with a nanny state government?

Uh huh.

Oh, I must run! Time for crumpets and tea!

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Kennedy 0]

oh yeah, I left out that I always carried a swiss army knife or a small folder. I was in the boyscouts, and we were expected to "be prepared."

Nowadays I guess you're expected to bend over and take it from the administrators.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Casurf1978 0]

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I can remember when we'd have "Western Day" in elementary school, and just about every kid in school would be wearing a pair of paper cap six-shooters.

We use to have 'western day' and also cops and robber, we used water guns..man was that fun. Seems that now a days some people want to take the fun out of growing up. Thank god I'm not a kid in this day and age.