wildernessmedic 0 #1 November 21, 2015 Just picked up my rig and noticed when he added the velcro he sewed it on my bridle THROUGH my kill line. As a result I can't cock my PC like I normally would. I can still pull the kill line up from inside the PC, but not step on the bag and do it. Is doing it like that something that would work fine or possibly cause a pilot chute in tow? Did it cause potential damage to my kill line that would require a replacement? Pretty bummed after driving 300 miles to pick it up that something like this happened... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #2 November 21, 2015 That would be two errors. Sewing through the line is a mental error. Failing to test that it works is a procedural error. I'd say you have ample ground to expect an explanation.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildernessmedic 0 #3 November 21, 2015 gowlerkThat would be two errors. Sewing through the line is a mental error. Failing to test that it works is a procedural error. I'd say you have ample ground to expect an explanation. Sounds like it was a simple mistake and easily fixed besides maybe missing it on inspection. No big deal. I am curious about the PC working without the line being pulled all the way from the bottom. If you reached inside the PC and slacked the kill line does that work the same? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #4 November 21, 2015 I'm not sure about the way you are wording the question. So I will just say that with the kill line tacked into place assuming the P/C is cocked, it will do it's job but not collapse. If it's tacked not cocked then it will be a collapsed p/c and probably will not have enough drag for a proper deployment. If it's somewhere in between, who knows? Is that reasonably clear?Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildernessmedic 0 #5 November 22, 2015 gowlerkI'm not sure about the way you are wording the question. So I will just say that with the kill line tacked into place assuming the P/C is cocked, it will do it's job but not collapse. If it's tacked not cocked then it will be a collapsed p/c and probably will not have enough drag for a proper deployment. If it's somewhere in between, who knows? Is that reasonably clear? Yes, thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #6 November 22, 2015 Everyone is human and can make mistakes but a repair like this, it boggles my mind a bit since I just assumed it would be obvious to everyone. Maybe you could post a photo of the repair. If he accidentally caught the kill line when he closed the bridle that's different than blindly sewing through the bridle itself. For damage to the kill line, I think it's unlikely that it damaged it. If it did, it is pretty trivial to make a new kill line. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildernessmedic 0 #7 November 22, 2015 hackishEveryone is human and can make mistakes but a repair like this, it boggles my mind a bit since I just assumed it would be obvious to everyone. Maybe you could post a photo of the repair. If he accidentally caught the kill line when he closed the bridle that's different than blindly sewing through the bridle itself. For damage to the kill line, I think it's unlikely that it damaged it. If it did, it is pretty trivial to make a new kill line. -Michael It is very slight. He didn't sew horizontally across it or anything. Just a few stitches in the kill line itself from going off at an angle from it. If it was centered the stitches look like they wouldn't have caught at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pobrause 6 #8 November 22, 2015 I've seen better stiching work from total newbies If the whole packjob was done that sloppy I'd seriously consider getting another rigger! you can actually solve it on your own by using a very sharp and pointed knife or alike. Cut through the stiching between the last and second to last puncture where the kill line is trapped. Pull the severed thread out and gently move the Kill line, it should come free quite easily. Use a lighter to melt the new stiching ends so that they don't fray or come loose. If you have calm and steady hands this is a no brainer and potentially safes you some mileage. a question to those more experienced: I usually just do one line of stiching on each side, overlapping a bit and that's it. Is there any reason to sew it 2 times and make a few strokes back and forth at the ends like shown in the picture besides being bored? Doesn't it actually damage the plastic pad of the velcro too much? ------------------------------------------------------- To absent friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #9 November 23, 2015 Any rigger can make a mistake. Of course. But... not checking the work is a violation of the trust between the rigger and the user. After every piece of repair work a rigger must check his work. Simple as that. If he had he would have caught it. Not checking the work is a serious error. Rigging is skill plus attitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anachronist 2 #10 November 23, 2015 Yeah, that is some sloppy work, find a new rigger. As for the needle damaging the kill line, not likely, even if it were to break then the PC just won't collapse after deployment, so it still does the important part. (Bar tacks on canopy suspension lines put more than 20 holes through the line with little reduction in strength, the needle ideally passes between braids rather than breaking threads.) If you can identify the stitches that are going through it or pinching it you can get a seam ripper at WalMart (like $2) and pick them out, just burn the threads and keep an eye on them unraveling in the future. If threads are actually going through the line the slack you are pulling is badly disrupting the braid and will cause damage over time. If it is pinched then it could burn the bridal and/or line from friction during deployments. So you need to free the line either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anachronist 2 #11 November 23, 2015 Pobrause a question to those more experienced: I usually just do one line of stiching on each side, overlapping a bit and that's it. Is there any reason to sew it 2 times and make a few strokes back and forth at the ends like shown in the picture besides being bored? Doesn't it actually damage the plastic pad of the velcro too much? For non-load bearing stuff like that 3 back stitches should be fine to keep it from unraveling, you could probably get away with just burning the ends and no back stitch, damage to the velcro is probably inconsequential. Load bearing stuff is above my experience level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #12 November 23, 2015 Most times I've done that repair the OEM sewed it on completely before the bridle was sewed together so I just rip the stitches and re-sew exactly as original. It only takes a few minutes and ripping stitches on ty4 is easy. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #13 November 23, 2015 The best inspection tool is a second set of eyeballs Reference: Captain Jack Sparrow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #14 November 23, 2015 wildernessmedicJust picked up my rig and noticed when he added the velcro he sewed it on my bridle THROUGH my kill line. As a result I can't cock my PC like I normally would. I can still pull the kill line up from inside the PC, but not step on the bag and do it. What is the purpose of the velcro? Is it an older container that uses velcro from the side flap to the BOC pouch or an ROL set up?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #15 November 23, 2015 Purpose of Velcro: Postage stamp size pile/loop Velcro on bridle marries with postage stamp sized hook Velcro on top flap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #16 November 23, 2015 dpreguy Purpose of Velcro: Postage stamp size pile/loop Velcro on bridle marries with postage stamp sized hook Velcro on top flap. I'm aware of that, but the picture of the velcro is much longer than the normal square. I am trying to figure out why it looks to be about 2-3x longer than it needs to be to hold the bridle on the top flap. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildernessmedic 0 #17 November 24, 2015 theonlyski ***Purpose of Velcro: Postage stamp size pile/loop Velcro on bridle marries with postage stamp sized hook Velcro on top flap. I'm aware of that, but the picture of the velcro is much longer than the normal square. I am trying to figure out why it looks to be about 2-3x longer than it needs to be to hold the bridle on the top flap. Uh you and me both. As soon as I saw it I was confused. Isn't a tiny pea sized piece all that's needed to to lightly hold it in place? Not a long strip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ufk22 32 #18 November 24, 2015 wildernessmedic ******Purpose of Velcro: Postage stamp size pile/loop Velcro on bridle marries with postage stamp sized hook Velcro on top flap. I'm aware of that, but the picture of the velcro is much longer than the normal square. I am trying to figure out why it looks to be about 2-3x longer than it needs to be to hold the bridle on the top flap. Uh you and me both. As soon as I saw it I was confused. Isn't a tiny pea sized piece all that's needed to to lightly hold it in place? Not a long strip.Thing is, you don't need any Velcro on your bridle anymore. UPT now recommends routing it from below and back down. This eliminates the potential for the pin to puncture the bridle and cause a PCT mal. Check out UPT's website.This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildernessmedic 0 #19 November 24, 2015 ufk22 *********Purpose of Velcro: Postage stamp size pile/loop Velcro on bridle marries with postage stamp sized hook Velcro on top flap. I'm aware of that, but the picture of the velcro is much longer than the normal square. I am trying to figure out why it looks to be about 2-3x longer than it needs to be to hold the bridle on the top flap. Uh you and me both. As soon as I saw it I was confused. Isn't a tiny pea sized piece all that's needed to to lightly hold it in place? Not a long strip.Thing is, you don't need any Velcro on your bridle anymore. UPT now recommends routing it from below and back down. This eliminates the potential for the pin to puncture the bridle and cause a PCT mal. Check out UPT's website. Have a link? Can't find it on their site. Trying to picture what you mean by below. If the line stows are at the bottom, the bridle is at the top, so now they say put the bridle down and right, close flaps, then put the pin in from bottom right and back down to your PC pouch? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anachronist 2 #20 November 24, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Kw0ZafG4c vid quality is bad but this from UPT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 November 24, 2015 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=147264; Like thisYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillson 0 #22 November 24, 2015 http://unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Sport/Collapsible_Pilot_Chute_Installation.pdf or http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Sport/ALTERNATIVE_MAIN_CONTAINER_CLOSING_TIP_INSTRUCT-027_Rev-0.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #23 November 24, 2015 I think there isn't a big downside to putting an over-sized piece of velcro on the bridle. Without sewing across the top layer of bridle then re-closing it I could see a longer piece as being more durable since it better distributes the load. I'm definitely with the others about using the preferred packing method. You can put a piece of pile velcro over the piece on your rig or remove it completely. In the photo I posted I removed the velcro entirely. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tred 0 #24 November 24, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgU9wT7O0-E brian germains version Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildernessmedic 0 #25 November 24, 2015 hillsonhttp://unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Sport/Collapsible_Pilot_Chute_Installation.pdf or http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Sport/ALTERNATIVE_MAIN_CONTAINER_CLOSING_TIP_INSTRUCT-027_Rev-0.pdf Thanks for all the links. I only see it recommended for the vector 3, is it recommended for the 2 as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites