mxk 1 #1 February 3, 2015 Hi all, I'd like to get my first sewing machine that can do a straight and zig-zag stitch. I don't anticipate doing any container or harness repairs, and half the time it will probably be used for non-rigging work as the only sewing machine in the house. Space is a bit limited, so it will have to be one that I can keep in a box inside of a closet when not needed. From a bit of searching, it seems that Singer 401A is the typical recommendation. I found a few on ebay, but it's hard to figure out which ones are junk and which ones are in good working order. Sailrite LSZ-1 is another option, but it's much more expensive if new and I can't find any that are used. Finally, there are some cheaper home sewing machines, like the Janome HD 1000 or 3000, that would probably do 99% of what I need, assuming that they can handle E thread reliably. What would you recommend? Under $400 would be ideal, but I want something reliable. If the Singer requires much more maintenance to keep it running smoothly than one of the more modern alternatives, then I would probably go with the latter. Any first-hand experience with the Janome or similar machines? Is the Sailrite worth it? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #2 February 3, 2015 Older heavy metal sewing machines, including the home portable models, are always, always, always better then new plastic pieces of shit. Some of them are remarkable good machines. They will handle e-thread. Ultimately you will want a real machine. If you ever sew on a machine with a knee lift you will never go back. Check craigslist and garage sales. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #3 February 3, 2015 RiggerLeeUltimately you will want a real machine. If you ever sew on a machine with a knee lift you will never go back. I did that at Dave DeWolf's rigger course a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I don't have any place to put a "real" sewing machine, so I'm trying to find a good compromise for now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #4 February 3, 2015 mxk ***Ultimately you will want a real machine. If you ever sew on a machine with a knee lift you will never go back. I did that at Dave DeWolf's rigger course a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I don't have any place to put a "real" sewing machine, so I'm trying to find a good compromise for now. I know Brother has a electronic knee lift on some larger home machines. My mom has one of those, but she has never used the knee lift. When I asked he if that was a knee lift laying in the sewing box she replied she believes they are hard to use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #5 February 3, 2015 If you want a cheap portable that will do most of what you need (including pulling E-thread), go to your local thrift store. Really. Goodwill, St Vinnies, that sort of place. They almost always have older domestics for $25-$50. If you don't know how, take it to a local store and have it gone through for another $50 or so. These are often the well made, metal, vintage machines that someone's mom or grandma had and when she died or went into a retirement home, nobody wanted. It won't be a knee lift, industrial machine. But for the price you can't beat it."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,148 #6 February 3, 2015 Excellent advice. If you want to drop a little more, you can also check out sewing machine shops for older ones, and Craigslist and ebay (local). Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #7 February 3, 2015 Viking sewing machines like this one are very good. I used a viking 1020 for many years. It is STILL better at sewing 6 layers of Type 4 for the nose of a toggle than my industrial machines. Here is one similar but higher in the series. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Husqvarna-Viking-30-10-3010-Sewing-Machine-with-Case-/151393983264 This guy wants too much. Should be closer to $200. They were closer to $100 when I got mine. Also Necchi sewing machines like this one are good. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Husqvarna-Viking-30-10-3010-Sewing-Machine-with-Case-/151393983264\ Also had a Necchi BU. These are good, popular machines and can be set up with table top portable motor or in a commercial table with a knee lifter and clutch or servo motor. Be careful of thrift stores. I still troll them routinely for good machines but many are plastic geared, often with the gears stripped, and others are just odd enough not to be able to find parts. Stay away from anything with a plastic body and square corners. Easy way to usually tell new enough to have plastic gears. The singer slant o matics you mentioned are good too.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #8 February 3, 2015 You can pick up a Sailrite LSZ-1 clone for about $400. Some are great, some are difficult to keep in time. It is almost on an individual machine by machine basis. Singer 401A and 500A are hard to beat. They are the same machine, just a different shape body. I see them all the time for about +/- $100. The the 404A and 503a are the same basic machine without the internal metal cam stack. They can do zigzag with the plastic cam wheel installed. Parts are cheap. Common problem with these machines are the hinges on the access doors break. If you can find a Pfaff 130 or 230, also great machines, but tend to be more $$. I found a 130 for $30 at the flea market, so they are out there at a decent price. Also look at Necchi and Husqvarna/Viking machines. Strong sewers, but are a bit more expensive if you need repairs. Research models before you buy. Some Vikings used a sealed in lubricant that if not used on a regular basis, the grease turned into concrete. I bought a 6040 really cheap that I thought I could get running. Not worth the time.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 February 3, 2015 monkycndo Also look at Necchi and Husqvarna/Viking machines. Strong sewers, but are a bit more expensive if you need repairs. . When I wore out the hook on one Necchi it was going.to be $100 for a new one. Just. Ought the viking 1020 to.replace it.for.$100.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #10 February 3, 2015 ... Sailrite LSZ-1 is another option, but it's much more expensive if new ... ...................................................................................... I picked up a Sailrite last year and have used it to patch canopies, rebuild a Vector II Tandem, build a BASE rig, etc. Great little machine. You should see the rolling case that I use to carry it across parking lots! If you are only patching canopies, then a PFAFF 230 will do fine. I sewed a couple of kit canopies on mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #11 February 3, 2015 riggerrob... Sailrite LSZ-1 is another option, but it's much more expensive if new ... ...................................................................................... I picked up a Sailrite last year and have used it to patch canopies, rebuild a Vector II Tandem, build a BASE rig, etc. Great little machine. You should see the rolling case that I use to carry it across parking lots! If you are only patching canopies, then a PFAFF 230 will do fine. I sewed a couple of kit canopies on mine. What are the maintenance requirements of the Sailrite as compared to something like the Pfaff 230? My machine may sit unused for months in a closet until the day that I need it. Would a newer sewing machine have an easier time with that or are they all about the same? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 February 3, 2015 Maintenance is the same on new and old sewing machines. Clean the dust out of the bobbin case once a month. Every manual contains pictures showing how to remove and install the bobbin case, etc. Oil the machine at the start of every day's sewing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #13 February 4, 2015 I have a singer 503 that I got before my commercial machine. I will still use it for a few things because of the zig-zag capability and being all metal it is a pretty decent machine for what it is. I paid around $100 for it and it was refurbished with a 1 year warranty from my local singer place. As much as I love the commercial machine if I didn't have room I could probably do most everything on the 503, just not as easily.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #14 February 4, 2015 I don't expect you to get one but don't get a self oiling machine. They are commercial machines that have a reservoir of oil, sometimes on top and sometimes underneath like the oil pan of a car. They either pump or wick the oil to SOME of the spots where its needed. Pump machine that only run for.short periods.may run most of the time with not enough oil. Wicking machines may keep dripping oil. Oil it before you start each day, put a new needle in for each project and maybe during a project. and brush or blow.the dust.out. BTW needles are cheap when you buy them by the hundred mail order instead of the local fabric store. Often 1/10 the price. A little more.on thrift shops where things are donated. The machines they have often don't work because people can't sell them if they don't work. So they give them to goodwill. Craigslist maybe better because the owner thinks it works good enough to sell. But often people want.too much money on craigslist.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #15 February 4, 2015 Thanks for all the suggestions! I plan to stop by some local thrift stores this week. If I don't find anything, it looks like getting a Singer 401A from ebay will be my best bet. What's a reasonable price for one that claims to be already serviced? They seem to range from $100 to $400. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #16 February 4, 2015 councilman24 ...A little more.on thrift shops where things are donated. The machines they have often don't work because people can't sell them if they don't work. So they give them to goodwill. Craigslist maybe better because the owner thinks it works good enough to sell. But often people want.too much money on craigslist. Very true. The church run shops around here all check to see if they work at least reasonably well. And the rest are willing to let you plug it in and test it."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #17 February 5, 2015 Anyone think that this is a good deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singer-401A-Sewing-Machine-/191496809506? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #18 February 5, 2015 No. Way over priced. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Singer-401A-Slant-O-Matic-Sewing-Machine-With-Extras-/181657068599?_trksid=p2054897.l427550 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #19 February 5, 2015 Max, Here you go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Singer-401A-Slant-O-Matic-Sewing-Machine-With-Extras-/181657068599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4b9ae437 ...Not a scratch on it from what I see, Also, you can put a Singer 143W in a portable case and use a small motor like the home machines use to do light stuff. Or you could make a two piece portable cabinet; one for the machine and the other piece with a light servo motor.You could attach them together when you need the machine. If fact, the servo motor could just hang on the back of the machine itself with hooks. Just a thought..... Just stay away from the plastic machines! MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #20 February 5, 2015 Quote I don't expect you to get one but don't get a self oiling machine. They are commercial machines that have a reservoir of oil, sometimes on top and sometimes underneath like the oil pan of a car. They either pump or wick the oil to SOME of the spots where its needed. Pump machine that only run for.short periods.may run most of the time with not enough oil. Wicking machines may keep dripping oil. Terry, I guess I disagree with you on the self oilers. To me the self oilers make really good machines. They are usually high speed machines, but you can tone them down with a #614 pulley and a 1725 rpm motor or use a servo motor. With regards to the wicks that do not oil the machine, the fix is simple. Just oil the wick manually. This method "primes" the wick and is a common practice for machine that have been sitting or not used for an extended period of time. One other thing that most people miss or forget is that every time the bobbin thread is changed out, you should clean the hook area and place 1 drop of machine oil on the hook race. This applies to the self oilers as well. This makes the hook have a lot longer life in the machine. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #21 February 5, 2015 My comments were based on the OP putting it in the closet for months and not having a place to set it permanently. He doesn't want a pump oiler to spill. The wicks would be okay if used like you mentioned. I've also been told that lots of short uses don't allow the self oiling to provide enough lubrication. Seems reasonable to me. I have both kinds of self oilers and don't have anything against them. Just not for the OP.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #22 February 5, 2015 Quote My comments were based on the OP putting it in the closet for months and not having a place to set it permanently. I'm thinking it would not be in there for months, but I could be wrong. Quote He doesn't want a pump oiler to spill. Yep, but he does not have to fill it up. He can simply oil the wicks when he uses it. The oil pan would act as a contained drip pan that would not spill. Quote Just not for the OP. He was just using a Consew 7630 which is a self oiler. He did pretty well with that machine BTW.I know that he has no room for the industrial table, but again he could make a portable setup like Rags uses at the Symposium. Just saying...... MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #23 February 6, 2015 masterrigger1 Quote My comments were based on the OP putting it in the closet for months and not having a place to set it permanently. I'm thinking it would not be in there for months, but I could be wrong. My machine may sit unused for months in a closet until the day that I need it. The OP said it, not me.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #24 February 6, 2015 councilman24 *** Quote My comments were based on the OP putting it in the closet for months and not having a place to set it permanently. I'm thinking it would not be in there for months, but I could be wrong. My machine may sit unused for months in a closet until the day that I need it. The OP said it, not me.I may have exaggerated a little. The ebay listing that Sean and MEL recommended ended up going for $150, which was higher than my bid, so I'll have to keep looking. I also found a guy who rebuilds these machines to like-new condition: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGER-401-SEWING-MACHINE-EXCEPTIONAL-/191464449057. I know it's not worth it, but it's still very tempting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #25 February 6, 2015 The price was fair if it's in good working condition. Any older metal gear machine is now up to $200 to $250 most places. When I bought the ones I mentioned above they were closer to $100 but everybody has figured out that they are better than newer ones. AND the internet has driven competition and prices of for lots of things. When the one local buyer that might want one was the only person who likely would or could buy it the prices were lower. Now that the whole world may be buying you $100 machine there's more competition. Best place to look may be craigslist. Again, if someone thinks it's worth selling rather than giving to Good Will then it's probably working. I have bought machine off ebay but not sure I'd do it from an individual. I've bought from sewing businesses. Like this: http://winchester.craigslist.org/hsd/4831394108.html Somewhere in the same region as you. Belt easy, top not needed. Or this one. http://baltimore.craigslist.org/app/4869851619.html Take material (your patch square if you kept it) and #69 upholstery thread (same size as e thread) and try it out. Put in "sewing machine slant" in craigslist.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
