1985 Student Gear HELP!! **UPDATE

[loiswinkelman 0]

Hi,

I'm new to Skydiving (got my Solo last summer) and could use some help.
I recently got my hands on a complete 1985 Student Rig.

If anyone could give me more info that would be great.
-What do you know about the gear?
-Could it be used to jump?
-If I were to sell it how much could I get for it?
Etc. *Any info would be appreciated.

*PICS: http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/loiswinkelman/library/1985%20Skydiving%20Rig?sort=3&evt=email_share_media&page=1

UPDATE** Just added a pic of the print on the reserve it is a CIRRUS Para-Flite Reserve

**I bought it from my aunts acquaintance, who bought it 13 years ago from the Dropzone in Prince George, BC. Back then she sent it to a guy in Alberta, who checked everything and put in the AAD. She jumped it once or twice (she then quit jumping) and has been in her closet ever since.

**If I were to sell it, would I be better off parting it out or selling as a whole? and how much?

Thanks!!

[piisfish 135]

loiswinkelman

Hi,

I'm new to Skydiving (got my Solo last summer) and could use some help.
I recently got my hands on a complete 1985 Student Rig.

If anyone could give me more info that would be great.
-What do you know about the gear?
-Could it be used to jump?
-If I were to sell it how much could I get for it?
Etc. *Any info would be appreciated.

*PICS: http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/loiswinkelman/library/1985%20Skydiving%20Rig?sort=3&evt=email_share_media&page=1


Thanks!!

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

loiswinkelman

Hi,

I'm new to Skydiving (got my Solo last summer) and could use some help.
I recently got my hands on a complete 1985 Student Rig.

If anyone could give me more info that would be great.
-What do you know about the gear?
-Could it be used to jump?
-If I were to sell it how much could I get for it?
Etc. *Any info would be appreciated.

*PICS: http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/loiswinkelman/library/1985%20Skydiving%20Rig?sort=3&evt=email_share_media&page=1


Thanks!!

How exactly did you "get your hands on" it?

It's really outdated. I'm guessing it has a round reserve.

The Strato-Cloud has been obsolete for years.

The FXC 12000 AAD in it is also very outdated. They need to be sent back for calibration every other year, and checked in an altitude chamber every repack (and those are both rare and expensive).

I'm going to guess you would have a very hard time finding a rigger to inspect & repack the reserve. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't jump it and would strongly advise you not to either.

I doubt you'd have much luck finding a buyer. Maybe a collector of vintage gear would give you a few bucks for it. But it's pretty much obsolete and worthless.

Sorry.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

It's really outdated. I'm guessing it has a round reserve.

My memory is that the swift container system was made for the 5 cell swift reserve (and even the 5 cell swift main?), back when the 5 cell swift reserve was a hot ticket. I believe the total system's low weight and small size was a big selling point.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

sundevil777

Quote

It's really outdated. I'm guessing it has a round reserve.

My memory is that the swift container system was made for the 5 cell swift reserve (and even the 5 cell swift main?), back when the 5 cell swift reserve was a hot ticket. I believe the total system's low weight and small size was a big selling point.

Ok, thanks. I actually learned something on here today.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[mcordell 2]

wolfriverjoe

I'm going to guess you would have a very hard time finding a rigger to inspect & repack the reserve. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't jump it and would strongly advise you not to either.

What reason would you have for either of those statements? Being "outdated" doesn't mean it is unsafe. Depending on the jumper's size and the condition of the main I'd say an old F-111 main would be find for some jumpers, assuming they aren't loading them heavy and the canopy isn't bagged out. As far as the reserve, if it is airworthy, what reason would you have not to pack it? Toss it in a box and send it to me and I will pack it if it is airworthy but it gets a full inspection first. As far as rounds, there is nothing wrong with a round reserve. Some drop zones still use them for student gear and every pilot bailout rig has one. I have one in one of my three rigs and I'm fine with it. I guess some riggers won't pack anything they don't think is sexy.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[pchapman 262]

I checked a Swift II manual, that says it is a 1985 update of the 1981 Swift, with better riser covers and redesigned main container.

It clearly states that is was designed and tested only for the Swift and Cirrus square reserves. (I have no idea if some riggers might have put in a round instead, considering it compatible anyway.)

It sounds from the manual like the main container on the Swift II could come in different sizes to take a range of ParaFlite canopies, Cruislite to DC-5.

It would be a pretty progressive DZ to go to a square reserve for students in '85??? (Or maybe advanced students?) Not quite sure of the timing.

[mcordell 2]

pchapman

I checked a Swift II manual, that says it is a 1985 update of the 1981 Swift, with better riser covers and redesigned main container.

It clearly states that is was designed and tested only for the Swift and Cirrus square reserves. (I have no idea if some riggers might have put in a round instead, considering it compatible anyway.)

It sounds from the manual like the main container on the Swift II could come in different sizes to take a range of ParaFlite canopies, Cruislite to DC-5.

It would be a pretty progressive DZ to go to a square reserve for students in '85??? (Or maybe advanced students?) Not quite sure of the timing.

It would be hard to pack in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions if they only authorize specific canopies and you deviated from that. That being said, I would assume it was a sport rig that was later used for student gear? I can't imagine a dz going to square reserves at that time. When squares first came out they were considered high performance and you had minimum jump number requirements before you could even jump one as a main.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

mcordell

***
I'm going to guess you would have a very hard time finding a rigger to inspect & repack the reserve. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't jump it and would strongly advise you not to either.

What reason would you have for either of those statements? Being "outdated" doesn't mean it is unsafe. Depending on the jumper's size and the condition of the main I'd say an old F-111 main would be fine for some jumpers, assuming they aren't loading them heavy and the canopy isn't ragged out. As far as the reserve, if it is airworthy, what reason would you have not to pack it? Toss it in a box and send it to me and I will pack it if it is airworthy but it gets a full inspection first. As far as rounds, there is nothing wrong with a round reserve. Some drop zones still use them for student gear and every pilot bailout rig has one. I have one in one of my three rigs and I'm fine with it. I guess some riggers won't pack anything they don't think is sexy.

Well first off, I don't have a manual. I'm not going to pack it without one.

Second, it's got an FXC. Do you have a pressure chamber (actually a vacuum chamber) to test it? That's a requirement for every repack.

I wouldn't jump a round reserve because squares are a much better option. That's a personal choice. I wouldn't send a student to a DZ that uses round reserves. My old DZ had some seriously old student gear (Sweethogs with Ravens of some sort for reserves), but it was steerable squares, not rounds.
I wear a round reserve as a Pilot "Bail-out" rig when I fly the plane (my sport rig isn't as comfortable). But I'm almost certain not to use it.

It's old and obsolete. Modern gear is better.

It's probably serviceable, and possibly airworthy.

But it's 30 years old.

Lack of "sexiness" has nothing to do with it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[loiswinkelman 0]

UPDATE** Just added a pic of the print on the reserve it is a CIRRUS Para-Flite Reserve

**I bought it from my aunts acquaintance, who bought it 13 years ago from the Dropzone in Prince George, BC. Back then she sent it to a guy in Alberta, who checked everything and put in the AAD. She jumped it once or twice (she then quit jumping) and has been in her closet ever since.

**If I were to sell it, would I be better off parting it out or selling as a whole? and how much?

[RiggerLee 61]

I'm not one to dis older gear. But what you have there is OLD. By that I mean that it's old enough, in design if not in condition, that you wouldn't enjoy jumping it. There are closeted rigs that are perfectly serviceable but these designs are actually old enough that I don't think you will enjoy jumping them and would not be able to sell them. The container is the most serviceable of the components and even it has limited value if you want to be nitpicky about compatibility in the manual. The FXC is interesting if you want to do some type of drop testing but it's far from state of the art. The only thing that can be said for it is that it resets and so is cheep to fire unlike a cypress. But it is utterly useless at a skydiving AAD. It's virtually impossible to maintain.

You got nothing. Some one might take the FXC off your hands. I'll accept it and give it a good home if you'll ship it to me. Does that put it in perspective for you? Some one else might do the same for the container. Canopies have virtually no value. Sorry but that's just the truth.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[skytribe 16]

Its value is very low. Parting out or as a whole its total value is still very little.

I doubt you would get 100 bucks for the whole lot. The manufacturer is no longer in the sport business and its a very old design.

[D22369 0]

was it the fxc that could fire even if turned off under canopy or was that the astra?

for the life of me I cant remember :-/

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[RiggerLee 61]

FXC will fire easily under canopy.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[mcordell 2]

wolfriverjoe

Well first off, I don't have a manual. I'm not going to pack it without one.

Second, it's got an FXC. Do you have a pressure chamber (actually a vacuum chamber) to test it? That's a requirement for every repack.

I wouldn't jump a round reserve because squares are a much better option. That's a personal choice. I wouldn't send a student to a DZ that uses round reserves. My old DZ had some seriously old student gear (Sweethogs with Ravens of some sort for reserves), but it was steerable squares, not rounds.
I wear a round reserve as a Pilot "Bail-out" rig when I fly the plane (my sport rig isn't as comfortable). But I'm almost certain not to use it.

It's old and obsolete. Modern gear is better.

It's probably serviceable, and possibly airworthy.

But it's 30 years old.

Lack of "sexiness" has nothing to do with it.

I agree modern gear is better. I'm not saying it's nice gear or that the OP should jump it, but if that's all they have an it's airworthy I wouldn't refuse to back it as long as I was comfortable with the jumper's weight under that reserve. Being a new jumper I would also like to know the local dz is aware of what they are jumping and is comfortable with them on that main. It's not gear I would want or have a use for but not everyone has nice stuff.

As for the FXC, I have access to a vacuum chamber to test it, but more than likely I would tell them it needs to be removed for me to repack it. As for the manual, that's easy enough to find.

In regards to rounds, there's nothing wrong with a round. Rounds and squares have their own advantages and disadvantages. The great thing about a round is it's hard for a student to screw it up once it's open. There are people on here with tons of jumps and no reserve rides so I don't think having a round in a student rig would be a disqualifier for me in recommending a student to a dz.

I'm not attacking you for you not being willing to repack it. I was just curious what reason you had for saying they would have a hard time finding someone to pack it for them. There seems to be a hefty percentage of riggers that think old gear is unairworthy. Of course it's been rehashed on here time and time again but age alone does not make something unairworthy. It may be ugly sometimes though.

I personally wouldn't jump the gear because I have better options, but I certainly wouldn't tell someone else they shouldn't since I don't know the condition of the gear and I'm not their local instructor.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[RiggerLee 61]

I actually kind of like the idea of round reserves for student rigs. There are some real advantages to it. Duel outs are much calmer then with two squares. I've seen students injured badly on two outs. The only actual down side is that they are so wind limiting. Students are already have fairly low wind limits but planning for a round just makes it worse and at that point they need to be jumping as much as they can not sitting on the ground.

And to keep it in perspective these canopies are only marginally better then a good round. These are not first generation square canopies but they are second and it wasn't till the next one with things like the Pegasus and Cruselite that we really got the squares figured out and working well. I like me a nice Pegasus but most people would scoff at it. This is even older and the fact that more of you are not aghast at the idea of some young jumper being sold it just shows that it's old enough that most of you don't know what it is.

If you aunt paid more then a beer for it she was ripped off. If the beer was cold she was over charged. It was badly out dated thirteen years ago and it was a crime to sell it to her. It's probable the reason why she never really became a skydiver. Who ever sold it to her broke it off in her ass. They ass raped her and they didn't even use lube. The idea that you're going to make any money selling it today is comical. I'm glad you asked about it and I'm sorry to disappoint. It would make a good water rig, that's the best use for it.

And I like old gear.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Quagmirian 40]

RiggerLee

...Who ever sold it to her broke it off in her ass. They ass raped her and they didn't even use lube...

Lee's suggestion that it could be used as a water rig is a good one. Advertise it as a water rig and you may get more than $100 for it. Someone will even buy it for scrap or reference or historical collection or whatever.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

mcordell

Some drop zones still use them for student gear and every pilot bailout rig has one.

False

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

mcordell

...I'm not attacking you for you not being willing to repack it. I was just curious what reason you had for saying they would have a hard time finding someone to pack it for them. There seems to be a hefty percentage of riggers that think old gear is unairworthy. Of course it's been rehashed on here time and time again but age alone does not make something unairworthy. It may be ugly sometimes though.

I personally wouldn't jump the gear because I have better options, but I certainly wouldn't tell someone else they shouldn't since I don't know the condition of the gear and I'm not their local instructor.

I don't automatically dismiss gear as unairworthy simply becuase of age. My backup rig is an older Talon (97) with a 190 Triathlon.

This rig, however is obsolete. It has been superseded several times by more modern stuff.

For someone into vintage gear, who knows what they are doing, fine. I might even find a manual and pack it for them. I don't have the equipment to check the FXC though, and it is probably due to be sent in for calibration (about $175).

For a new jumper, however, no. I'm not even a big fan of "budget gear' with an F111 canopy for them. I've flown F111 Mantas. From brand new to 'almost ready to be retired'. When I switched to Zero-P the difference was remarkable.
For newer jumpers, training on Zero-P, switching to F111 and then eventually back to Zero-P isn't the best idea, IMO.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[mcordell 2]

JohnnyMarko

***Some drop zones still use them for student gear and every pilot bailout rig has one.

False

Ok, with the exception of a few uncommon rigs, the vast majority of pilot bailout rigs, and probably all pilot bailout rigs you are likely to pack have rounds. Is that better? By far the majority are round.

Round parachutes are very reliable and it's very hard to screw it up once it is open. That's why they are packed into rigs for people who don't know what they are doing.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[JohnnyMarko 1]

mcordell

Is that better?

Jyessss

[skytribe 16]

Quote

My backup rig is an older Talon (97) with a 190 Triathlon.

This rig, however is obsolete. It has been superseded several times by more modern stuff.

I don't see these as obsolete. Older perhaps but both the Triathlon and the Talon are rigs that are still in production. You can order them today. Sure there are newer products.

Sure, there are product improvements that have been made over the years (line trims changes, tuck tabs etc.) but I wouldn't see them as obsolete by any stretch of the imagination.

The stuff by para-flite is a different matter. It is very old, the manufacturer no longer is in the sport business and quite frankly what jumpers expect from equipment has changed. (They expect soft opening high performance parachutes and what was originally considered high performance in the day is now often considered as low performance now.)

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

skytribe

Quote

My backup rig is an older Talon (97) with a 190 Triathlon.

This rig, however is obsolete. It has been superseded several times by more modern stuff.

I don't see these as obsolete. Older perhaps but both the Triathlon and the Talon are rigs that are still in production. You can order them today. Sure there are newer products.

Sure, there are product improvements that have been made over the years (line trims changes, tuck tabs etc.) but I wouldn't see them as obsolete by any stretch of the imagination.

The stuff by para-flite is a different matter. It is very old, the manufacturer no longer is in the sport business and quite frankly what jumpers expect from equipment has changed. (They expect soft opening high performance parachutes and what was originally considered high performance in the day is now often considered as low performance now.)

That was my point. There's a big difference between "older" and "obsolete." I may not have made that clear enough.

My Talon (and a few other rigs I see) are "older." Still modern, mostly, and perfectly serviceable and airworthy. I don't have a problem packing them or jumping them or recommending them for newer jumpers, appropriate to skill and size of course. I wouldn't let a newer jumper jump a friends Diablo for example.

The rig in the OP is one I would consider "obsolete." And appropriate only for experienced jumpers who wish to jump vintage gear.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[piisfish 135]

mcordell

Ok, with the exception of a few uncommon rigs, the vast majority of pilot bailout rigs, and probably all pilot bailout rigs you are likely to pack have rounds. Is that better? By far the majority are round.

Round parachutes are very reliable and it's very hard to screw it up once it is open. That's why they are packed into rigs for people who don't know what they are doing.

thanks for sharing your knowledge with, for example, Sandy Reid and explain him why the Aviator is a bad idea

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[riggerrob 558]

mcordell

******Some drop zones still use them for student gear and every pilot bailout rig has one.

False

Ok, with the exception of a few uncommon rigs, the vast majority of pilot bailout rigs, and probably all pilot bailout rigs you are likely to pack have rounds. Is that better? By far the majority are round.

Round parachutes are very reliable and it's very hard to screw it up once it is open. That's why they are packed into rigs for people who don't know what they are doing.

..................................................................................

How did you get so far behind the times?????
When I started working for Manley Butler (1992) he had me pack a few squares into Pilot Emergency Parachute containers (back, long-back and seat) that he made.
In 1994, one of my first jobs at Rigging Innovations was heavy drop-tests on the P-124A/Aviator.
When I worked at Para-Phernalia, I sewed up a bunch of free-bags for PEPs containing squares.
Giving a modern pilot a PEP containing a round parachute is the equivalent of sending him up solo in a Sopwith Camel!
As for the myth that round require less training .... how many jumps do you have on rounds?
Starting back in the 1970s, I made about 70 jumps on rounds, but my last jump on a round (reserve) was in 1986 and I completely missed the country!
As for rounds being more reliable ..... my last jump on a round main, that T-10 suffered a partial inversion and had some any small holes that it went straight to the trash! And that was not my first malfunction on a round!
Glad to hear that you hold so strongly to attitudes that were relevant/accurate during the 1970s.
Hah!
Hah!