SpeedRacer 1 #1 June 22, 2001 There have been a lot of interesting political discussions on this forum lately and I'd like to make a few observations:There seem to be two ends of a political spectrum in society:One leans more towards maximizing personal freedom, minimizing government/industry control, even if it does mean that certain dangers/unknowns will still exist.The other end of the spectrum are the people who fear that these potential dangers must be controlled at any cost, even if it means getting government or industry must clamp down on society.Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears as though skydivers lean more towards the first group.And please, this has nothing to do with left wingers vs. right wingers. Both conservatives and liberals have both freedom lovers vs. people who wanna control society.Examples of believers in societal control on both the left and the right:Leftists want to outlaw guns, outlaw hunting, fishing, toy guns, violent programs, capitalism, politically-incorrect speech, heterosexual pornography (gay porn is OK, because gays are victims of oppression), eating meat, etc..Some right wingers can be just as bad with their own agenda:Demand urine testing of everyone at work, arrest peaceful citizens for smoking marijuana, arresting homosexuals, banning books/music, mandatory school prayer, censorship, etc. etc. It was mainly Republicans who gave us Prohibition.So anyway, personally, I've abandoned both the left wing and the right wing and the middle completely. They all suck. How can all of someones beliefs be attached to a single point on a one-dimensional axis anyway? So I have left that entire axis. In a Twin Otter. Speed Racer"De plaene!! De plaene!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #2 June 23, 2001 Yes, isn't it interesting how people on all ends (and middles) of political spectra are willing to take positions against the freedoms of others, yet rant on about their own personal right to freedom.There are two especially juicy examples of this that just kill me, and there are many others. The first is the right-wingers who want to restrict free speech that they find offensive, lest their children's tender ears be exposed to it. I won't even start on how these people thrash the rights of gays and other minority groups. Granted, these are mostly religious conservatives. I would think most political conservatives would find this offensive as well.From my own side of the fence comes an even more insideous example, I think. These college students that are trying to censor offensive right-wing speech. What hypocrites! These well-meaning idiots think they are protecting us from some harsh truth that we can't handle, like there are people out there with stupid things to say. Give me a break. Anyone with half a brain knows that slavery really happened, and that it was bad. Bringing light to half-baked treatices to the contrary only gives the idiots attention they don't need.This attack on freedom from both sides of the issues is pretty troublesome. It seems like the one thing we all agree on, yet all agree to let go.Why is that?Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #3 June 23, 2001 QuoteSo I have left that entire axis. In a Twin Otter. In the words of Rush Limbaugh.Ditto!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PalmettoTiger 1 #4 June 23, 2001 I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. Blues, Squares,PTiger*insert sub-100 character sig here* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PalmettoTiger 1 #5 June 23, 2001 QuoteFrom my own side of the fence comes an even more insideous example, I think. These college students that are trying to censor offensive right-wing speech. Yeah, it really galls me to hear people say "I am so offended by (insert person/publication here). It should be banned!!"WHAT?! You do NOT have a right to not be offended. I, however, DO have a right to free speech. If it offends you, rebut it. Don't suppress it.Blues, Squares,PTiger*insert sub-100 character sig here* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spectre230 0 #6 June 23, 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Doasfu 0 #7 June 23, 2001 QuoteNO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR ANYONE!!!. At the place where my girlfriend works,a straight worker can not get benefits for thier live in lovers.But if you are gay you can get benefits for your gay lover.How fucked up is that?Damn right!Why don't those damn gays just go get married if they want the same benefits-- oh, wait. They can't.Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingMarc 0 #8 June 23, 2001 QuoteI think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. Maybe it's just because it's late and I'm tired, but... what?Screw it, I'm gonna go to bed, then I'm gonna go jump out of an airplane. Politics can wait.M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #9 June 23, 2001 "Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal."Agree with every one of those views (not sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little Orwellian). We need a third party with this agenda....How about the Nowhuffo party. :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Doasfu 0 #10 June 23, 2001 Quote"Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal."Agree with every one of those views (not sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little Orwellian). We need a third party with this agenda....How about the Nowhuffo party. :DCount me in. I'm not particularly pro-free market, but this still comes a lot closer than any other party out there.Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites what42 0 #11 June 23, 2001 Quote"Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal."Agree with every one of those views (not sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little Orwellian). We need a third party with this agenda....How about the Nowhuffo party. :DTo be honest this sounds a hell of a lot like the Libertarian party. Check them out sometime. Very pro-individual rights and pro-capitalism. Against the war-on-drugs and the only party with a plan to eliminate the income tax and truly cutting our big government down to size.Okay, I think that's enough political party promotion for now. Wesley--I want to fly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jessica 0 #12 June 23, 2001 QuoteWhy don't those damn gays just go get married if they want the same benefits-- oh, wait. They can't.LOL!! Right on. I agree with the RATIONAL arguments on this thread. For some reason, it comes to mind the time I was working for my college newspaper and an anti-abortion group wanted to have a tabloid advertisement inserted in the paper.I had myriad problems with the ad, which were not based on my beliefs on abortion and which I won't go into -- but when it came down to it, they paid their money just like the pizza place down the street and there was no compelling reason not to run the insert. Also, I was news side, and this was an advertising decision.Anyhoo, it runs, and the next day there is an outcry of epic proportions from groups like the women's collective, the gay student groups, women's studies, etc. Most of the press run of the papers was actually STOLEN and put into dumpsters. There were people coming into the newsroom and screaming at us, demanding that we run an apology for insulting the women of this campus by allowing that insert.Well, *I'm* a woman, and when I picked up my copy of the paper that day, I removed the insert, holding it gingerly by the edges, and dropped in the recycle bin. Then I read the rest of the paper. You know, we used to run "liberal" stuff in that paper all the time (left-wingers tend to be more active letter-writers and press-release-givers on college campuses) but I never heard a peep out the conservative groups. They tended to accept that both voices would be heard.Those experiences certainly shaped the way I regard "activists" and special interest groups. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DZBone 0 #13 June 23, 2001 Quotenot sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little OrwellianIt's a dig on those who call themselves "right-thinking". And it's grammatically more correct, er right, whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jeji 0 #14 June 23, 2001 Now, now folks... there is no "correct-thinking". Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Even if if differs from the next. That is what makes our world such a wonderful place. Myself, I'm a recovering Democrat. But it's all good. I made this wonderful discovery. If I happen to be offended by anyone's opinion, I just politely change the subject and don't bring it up again. If I don't like what I happen to be reading, I don't finish it. If a TV show is offensive, well I have a ton of other channels to choose from. Same goes with raising my kids. If I find that the show they are watching is violent, I TURN IT OFF!!! If I don't agree with the child-rearing tactics of my kids friends parents. Well... they just don't go there. It's sooooo simple. I just made the decision to take control of my and my familys life and then did it!!!!! WOW!!! It was very liberating to realize that I do not need to depend on the government or the media or any special interest groups to make certain decisions for me!! Now that is freedom!!!! I hope this dosn't sound too sarcastic, really it's not. I value everyones opinions, even if I don't agree with them. I think I'm up to about .25 on these few forums.Jeji Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #15 June 23, 2001 "To be honest this sounds a hell of a lot like the Libertarian party."Libertarian has a few ideas that are way off of my way of thinking though. No immigration restrictions, anti-centralized government and isolationists militarily. They have some good ideas, just like the 2 major parties, but once again, they have a few extreme view points that I just can't get behind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #16 June 23, 2001 QuoteLibertarian has a few ideas that are way off of my way of thinking though.I generally present myself as a Libertarian, but when you get right down to it, I don't think I'd fit in under their umbrella because of some fundamental disagreements I have in certain areas. Come to think of it, I hold views which would get me kicked out of the Republican, Democratic and Libertarian parties. Color me an Independent I guess. ------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Doasfu 0 #17 June 23, 2001 QuoteThey have some good ideas, just like the 2 major parties, but once again, they have a few extreme view points that I just can't get behind.Yep, I'm with you. I voted for Nader, which means I'm hated by just about everyone except other Nader voters-- oh, wait... there aren't any other Nader voters. :)Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MC208B 0 #18 June 23, 2001 Hey Dan, no, I'm glad that you (and my daughter and her friends) voted for Nader. Got Bush elected!!! Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freefallfreak 0 #19 June 24, 2001 HEY,left wing, right wing, republican, democrat, libertarian parties??? Fuck, I JUST WANNA PARTY!!! FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Doasfu 0 #20 June 24, 2001 QuoteHey Dan, no, I'm glad that you (and my daughter and her friends) voted for Nader. Got Bush elected!!! MikeHey man, no skin off my back. I hate Gore just as much.Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MC208B 0 #21 June 24, 2001 Dan, agreed, Gore is a total asshole. George W is just a partial asshole. Damn it's that lesser of two evils thing again........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MC208B 0 #22 June 24, 2001 hey FFF, maybe all of us jumpers should start another political party. I think "the beer party has a nice ring to it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhawk 2 #23 June 24, 2001 I agree that minoritys shouldnt be treated any better but by the same token they shouldnt be treated worse. Hell almost everone is in a minority in some way (ours is skydiving) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Doasfu 0 #24 June 24, 2001 QuoteDan, agreed, Gore is a total asshole. George W is just a partial asshole. Damn it's that lesser of two evils thing again........I think a team of scientists with an unlimited budget and 50 years devoted to the project could not determine who is the greater asshole. :)Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Billy 0 #25 June 24, 2001 OK I hate FUCKIN POLITICS!!Seen FD's not cross coumty lines with their jaws a life because a it,, When I graduated from college,, a frigin white dude, couldn't get a job in AZ,, ya had ta be anything but me ta be considered,, hate the papers and news media,, tore the film outta a camera once while this prick was tryin ta change film in the back a our ambulance!!,, even the weathercasters blow it most the time,, when something I'm involved in makes the news they fuck it up! Big time,, so when I see something I don't know the facts on it makes me wonder what really happened,, don't get the paper, don't know if I'm left or right when it comes ta that shit,, My PC sucks!! Don't know a DSL from a BFD,, but hay,, when I jump.. it don't matter,, nothin else does,, and thats what I love about it!! Where do I sign up for the beer party,, Sorry ta rant,, didn't get ta jump todayWatered my grass today,, now it's raining,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PalmettoTiger 1 #4 June 23, 2001 I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. Blues, Squares,PTiger*insert sub-100 character sig here* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #5 June 23, 2001 QuoteFrom my own side of the fence comes an even more insideous example, I think. These college students that are trying to censor offensive right-wing speech. Yeah, it really galls me to hear people say "I am so offended by (insert person/publication here). It should be banned!!"WHAT?! You do NOT have a right to not be offended. I, however, DO have a right to free speech. If it offends you, rebut it. Don't suppress it.Blues, Squares,PTiger*insert sub-100 character sig here* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doasfu 0 #7 June 23, 2001 QuoteNO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR ANYONE!!!. At the place where my girlfriend works,a straight worker can not get benefits for thier live in lovers.But if you are gay you can get benefits for your gay lover.How fucked up is that?Damn right!Why don't those damn gays just go get married if they want the same benefits-- oh, wait. They can't.Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #8 June 23, 2001 QuoteI think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. Maybe it's just because it's late and I'm tired, but... what?Screw it, I'm gonna go to bed, then I'm gonna go jump out of an airplane. Politics can wait.M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 June 23, 2001 "Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal."Agree with every one of those views (not sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little Orwellian). We need a third party with this agenda....How about the Nowhuffo party. :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doasfu 0 #10 June 23, 2001 Quote"Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal."Agree with every one of those views (not sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little Orwellian). We need a third party with this agenda....How about the Nowhuffo party. :DCount me in. I'm not particularly pro-free market, but this still comes a lot closer than any other party out there.Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what42 0 #11 June 23, 2001 Quote"Carl - a "correct-thinking", pro-choice, anti-death-penalty, pro-gun-rights-with-control, pro-free-market, anti-hypocracy, pro-freedom, pro-privacy, god-damned liberal."Agree with every one of those views (not sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little Orwellian). We need a third party with this agenda....How about the Nowhuffo party. :DTo be honest this sounds a hell of a lot like the Libertarian party. Check them out sometime. Very pro-individual rights and pro-capitalism. Against the war-on-drugs and the only party with a plan to eliminate the income tax and truly cutting our big government down to size.Okay, I think that's enough political party promotion for now. Wesley--I want to fly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #12 June 23, 2001 QuoteWhy don't those damn gays just go get married if they want the same benefits-- oh, wait. They can't.LOL!! Right on. I agree with the RATIONAL arguments on this thread. For some reason, it comes to mind the time I was working for my college newspaper and an anti-abortion group wanted to have a tabloid advertisement inserted in the paper.I had myriad problems with the ad, which were not based on my beliefs on abortion and which I won't go into -- but when it came down to it, they paid their money just like the pizza place down the street and there was no compelling reason not to run the insert. Also, I was news side, and this was an advertising decision.Anyhoo, it runs, and the next day there is an outcry of epic proportions from groups like the women's collective, the gay student groups, women's studies, etc. Most of the press run of the papers was actually STOLEN and put into dumpsters. There were people coming into the newsroom and screaming at us, demanding that we run an apology for insulting the women of this campus by allowing that insert.Well, *I'm* a woman, and when I picked up my copy of the paper that day, I removed the insert, holding it gingerly by the edges, and dropped in the recycle bin. Then I read the rest of the paper. You know, we used to run "liberal" stuff in that paper all the time (left-wingers tend to be more active letter-writers and press-release-givers on college campuses) but I never heard a peep out the conservative groups. They tended to accept that both voices would be heard.Those experiences certainly shaped the way I regard "activists" and special interest groups. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #13 June 23, 2001 Quotenot sure what "correct-thinking" is though...sounds a little OrwellianIt's a dig on those who call themselves "right-thinking". And it's grammatically more correct, er right, whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeji 0 #14 June 23, 2001 Now, now folks... there is no "correct-thinking". Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Even if if differs from the next. That is what makes our world such a wonderful place. Myself, I'm a recovering Democrat. But it's all good. I made this wonderful discovery. If I happen to be offended by anyone's opinion, I just politely change the subject and don't bring it up again. If I don't like what I happen to be reading, I don't finish it. If a TV show is offensive, well I have a ton of other channels to choose from. Same goes with raising my kids. If I find that the show they are watching is violent, I TURN IT OFF!!! If I don't agree with the child-rearing tactics of my kids friends parents. Well... they just don't go there. It's sooooo simple. I just made the decision to take control of my and my familys life and then did it!!!!! WOW!!! It was very liberating to realize that I do not need to depend on the government or the media or any special interest groups to make certain decisions for me!! Now that is freedom!!!! I hope this dosn't sound too sarcastic, really it's not. I value everyones opinions, even if I don't agree with them. I think I'm up to about .25 on these few forums.Jeji Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #15 June 23, 2001 "To be honest this sounds a hell of a lot like the Libertarian party."Libertarian has a few ideas that are way off of my way of thinking though. No immigration restrictions, anti-centralized government and isolationists militarily. They have some good ideas, just like the 2 major parties, but once again, they have a few extreme view points that I just can't get behind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #16 June 23, 2001 QuoteLibertarian has a few ideas that are way off of my way of thinking though.I generally present myself as a Libertarian, but when you get right down to it, I don't think I'd fit in under their umbrella because of some fundamental disagreements I have in certain areas. Come to think of it, I hold views which would get me kicked out of the Republican, Democratic and Libertarian parties. Color me an Independent I guess. ------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doasfu 0 #17 June 23, 2001 QuoteThey have some good ideas, just like the 2 major parties, but once again, they have a few extreme view points that I just can't get behind.Yep, I'm with you. I voted for Nader, which means I'm hated by just about everyone except other Nader voters-- oh, wait... there aren't any other Nader voters. :)Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #18 June 23, 2001 Hey Dan, no, I'm glad that you (and my daughter and her friends) voted for Nader. Got Bush elected!!! Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #19 June 24, 2001 HEY,left wing, right wing, republican, democrat, libertarian parties??? Fuck, I JUST WANNA PARTY!!! FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doasfu 0 #20 June 24, 2001 QuoteHey Dan, no, I'm glad that you (and my daughter and her friends) voted for Nader. Got Bush elected!!! MikeHey man, no skin off my back. I hate Gore just as much.Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #21 June 24, 2001 Dan, agreed, Gore is a total asshole. George W is just a partial asshole. Damn it's that lesser of two evils thing again........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #22 June 24, 2001 hey FFF, maybe all of us jumpers should start another political party. I think "the beer party has a nice ring to it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #23 June 24, 2001 I agree that minoritys shouldnt be treated any better but by the same token they shouldnt be treated worse. Hell almost everone is in a minority in some way (ours is skydiving) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doasfu 0 #24 June 24, 2001 QuoteDan, agreed, Gore is a total asshole. George W is just a partial asshole. Damn it's that lesser of two evils thing again........I think a team of scientists with an unlimited budget and 50 years devoted to the project could not determine who is the greater asshole. :)Dan"Oh, you went to a movie this weekend? That's nice. Me? Not much." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #25 June 24, 2001 OK I hate FUCKIN POLITICS!!Seen FD's not cross coumty lines with their jaws a life because a it,, When I graduated from college,, a frigin white dude, couldn't get a job in AZ,, ya had ta be anything but me ta be considered,, hate the papers and news media,, tore the film outta a camera once while this prick was tryin ta change film in the back a our ambulance!!,, even the weathercasters blow it most the time,, when something I'm involved in makes the news they fuck it up! Big time,, so when I see something I don't know the facts on it makes me wonder what really happened,, don't get the paper, don't know if I'm left or right when it comes ta that shit,, My PC sucks!! Don't know a DSL from a BFD,, but hay,, when I jump.. it don't matter,, nothin else does,, and thats what I love about it!! Where do I sign up for the beer party,, Sorry ta rant,, didn't get ta jump todayWatered my grass today,, now it's raining,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
