main closing loop break

[riggerrob 558]

stayhigh

You can also get a steel wire from local hardware store and make a closing loop out of it. They last forever.

Make sure the wire doesn't have any bur, or other wise it might damage you d-bag when pc is extracting off your back.

Sucks when that happens, buddy of mine ripped his canopy because of the bur on his closing loop.

...................................................................................

Mr. Styahigh,

You sound rather arrogant.
Can you tell us what was fashionable for reserve closing loops before Cypres cord?
Can you tell us what Racer used instead?
Can you tell us what was fashionable for reserve closing loops back during the 1960s?

[piisfish 135]

loops like the ones in attachment ?
the 2 first ones are "special Eastern European technique"
the last one is a "normal" loop with only 1 pack job. Packer/owner pulled super quickly his pull-up cord with lots of friction

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[riggerrob 558]

Remind me to never buy closing loops from Eastern Europeans.

[yoink 321]

So what happened with this? Did you ever take the rig to a rigger?

[hackish 8]

I'm not a fan whatsoever of those loops pictured above.

I've attached a photo of a loop I made the other day. To be honest I was just practising making bartacks on my 20U but nevertheless some photos of good and bad closing loops could be educational to the OP. Maybe others can add to the visuals.

-Michael

[pchapman 261]

Topics:
a) sewing along the loop necessary?
b) not just an overhand knot if using Spectra main loops?

If we're talking about closing loop design then I can ask whether many bother with sewing along the closing loop. In the old days it was more common to see a loop with some sewing, maybe just a straight stitch along it. (Like on some traditional 2 pin reserve loop of type IIa sheathing)

Most modern IIa main loops I see don't have the stitching and I personally don't bother with it -- as long as one makes sure the finger trap goes down to the free end so someone doesn't tie the knot over a non-fingertrapped section.

Years ago if making Spectra main closing loops for people I might sew along it just to be sure. They were slipperier and I'd put in a double overhand knot into it too, instead of a single overhand. It might have been overkill. But when putting a ton of weight on a slippery Spectra loop to test it, the regular overhand knot did sometimes seem to slip.

But all that was just small DZ rigging so I'm curious what others consider acceptable or good practice.

[DJL 232]

pchapman

Topics:
a) sewing along the loop necessary?
b) not just an overhand knot if using Spectra main loops?

If we're talking about closing loop design then I can ask whether many bother with sewing along the closing loop. In the old days it was more common to see a loop with some sewing, maybe just a straight stitch along it. (Like on some traditional 2 pin reserve loop of type IIa sheathing)

Most modern IIa main loops I see don't have the stitching and I personally don't bother with it -- as long as one makes sure the finger trap goes down to the free end so someone doesn't tie the knot over a non-fingertrapped section.

Years ago if making Spectra main closing loops for people I might sew along it just to be sure. They were slipperier and I'd put in a double overhand knot into it too, instead of a single overhand. It might have been overkill. But when putting a ton of weight on a slippery Spectra loop to test it, the regular overhand knot did sometimes seem to slip.

But all that was just small DZ rigging so I'm curious what others consider acceptable or good practice.

When I was a packer I ended up being the default closing loop maker/finder/installer. I use a figure 8 knot since it's larger and creates a flat surface against the washer. It makes a little bit neater knot than a double overhand. http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8_/

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[SkySpice 0]

pchapman

Most modern IIa main loops I see don't have the stitching and I personally don't bother with it -- as long as one makes sure the finger trap goes down to the free end so someone doesn't tie the knot over a non-fingertrapped section.

Years ago if making Spectra main closing loops for people I might sew along it just to be sure. They were slipperier and I'd put in a double overhand knot into it too, instead of a single overhand. It might have been overkill. But when putting a ton of weight on a slippery Spectra loop to test it, the regular overhand knot did sometimes seem to slip.

You've identified a couple of potential problem areas right there. And since no one is perfect and such mistakes do happen, and considering the high risk of serious trouble should a loop fail, then it seems prudent to go ahead and sew it down just to make sure it doesn't slip out.

[riggerrob 558]

If you cannot tie knots, tie lots!
Hah!
Hah!

Seriously, as long as the knot - on the bottom of a closing loop - is bigger than the grommet/washer, type matters little.

[riggerrob 558]

hackish

I'm not a fan whatsoever of those loops pictured above.

I've attached a photo of a loop I made the other day. To be honest I was just practising making bartacks on my 20U but nevertheless some photos of good and bad closing loops could be educational to the OP. Maybe others can add to the visuals.

-Michael

...............................................................................

One disadvantage of sewing loops is that it makes them stiffer ... and more difficult to slip through grommets.

That is why I never use finger-trapped - and sewn - bottom ends of old suspension lines for closing loops.
Maybe that only makes a difference with spring-loaded pilot-chutes ...

[erdnarob 1]

I agree with you Rob. The two first completely open loops shown on pictures are real potential catch up for line stows or whatever. Murphy law : If it can happen, it will.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[hackish 8]

riggerrob

One disadvantage of sewing loops is that it makes them stiffer ... and more difficult to slip through grommets.

I sewed them mainly to practice bartacking. Sewing does stop them from ever pulling out, but I'm confident that someone will just invent a different way to screw it up.

-Michael

[riggerrob 558]

riggerrob

***You can also get a steel wire from local hardware store and make a closing loop out of it. They last forever.

Make sure the wire doesn't have any bur, or other wise it might damage you d-bag when pc is extracting off your back.

Sucks when that happens, buddy of mine ripped his canopy because of the bur on his closing loop.

...................................................................................

Mr. Styahigh,

You sound rather arrogant.
Can you tell us what was fashionable for reserve closing loops before Cypres cord?
Can you tell us what Racer used instead?
Can you tell us what was fashionable for reserve closing loops back during the 1960s?

..............................................................................

Mr. Stayhigh,
Here are the answers to the quiz:
Type 3 nylon suspension line, aka. gutted 550 cord.

Racer used Kevlar cord back during the 1980s. Racer specified un-coated Kevlar suspension line.
For bonus points, why did Racer specify UNCOATED Kevlar?

Back during the 1960s, brass cones were fashionable for closing reserves.

[stayhigh 2]

can't seem to take a joke dude.

I make my closing loop with a titanium wire. fuck kevlar.

Why did racer used that shit? I don't know, because they suck?

My question

How many racer do you see at the dz?
Why are racer such a horrible looking rig?
Why do people buy racer knowing that riggers hate them?

I sound arrogant? You sound old.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[saftey1st 0]

yoink

So what happened with this? Did you ever take the rig to a rigger?

UPDATE: i went to the location where i purchased the container, the same place that the rig was assembled. i was first told that it was common for main loops to break after 6 jumps. after me asking them if they were sure they wanted to stand by that statement they said there might be some other factors causing the premature ware, and they started to inspect the container. found no burs, and i was told to keep an eye on my loops, and referred to contact the manufacture for any other problems.

honestly felt like i was pushed along, and hurried out. which is a shame because i had such a pleasant time during the process making the purchase.

so my plan is as before, pack myself, follow the advise from here and distributor, in "loop care", and see if it was a fluke. and go from there. and yes i bought more loops, the first sign of loop ware i will be replacing them.

my question now is: loop size? how does it come into play?
the loop size of the one that broke on me was small, like thread threw a needle.
and someone just put up a photo of the "eastern european loop"
and now the loop that is on my container now-loop size I've been seeing in most of the pictures everyone has posted, and of all the rental rigs I've seen.

[DJL 232]

Hey man, find a rigger who isn't part of this. There really aren't any mysteries to how closing loops break and you're not going to figure it out over the internet.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[monkycndo 0]

I make my closing loops. Loop is big enough so I don't have to fight to get the pull up cord through it, maybe 1/2" to 3/4".

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[stayhigh 2]

Serious question, how long does it take for you to close the rig?

I mean after the canopy is in the d-bag and sitting in the container ready to be closed.

When I was new to packing, it took me like 3-5 mins to close the damn thing, and by the time when I was finished fighting with it, the closing loop was trashed. I was not using the right technique with the pull up cord. I was pulling up the cord towards me rather than pulling the cord side ways away from the rig using the grommet as a leverage point.

On serious note, talk to your rigger or your instructor, and ask them how make the closing loop out of used dacron or mircolines.

I make my own closing loop out of used dacron lineset and I used to change them once or twice a year, and that's after 500-600 jumps.

The pic below is my closing loop and I haven't changed them since sometime 2 years ago, and I've only put about 100 jumps on it.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[yoink 321]

saftey1st

UPDATE: i went to the location where i purchased the container, the same place that the rig was assembled. i was first told that it was common for main loops to break after 6 jumps.

Well that's fucking bullshit for a start.

Unless they knowingly install loops made out of garden string... where was it?


Take the rig to a rigger on your DZ along with a bottle of something, and ask him to look over the rig and to show you how to size your closing loop.
Seriously, getting on the good side of your rigger is a really good idea. They're a goldmine of information.

[riggerrob 558]

stayhigh

...

I sound arrogant? You sound old.

...............................................................................

Yup!
I am old.
I freely admit to being old ... 57 years old.
I have also survived 37 years worth of skydiving.
You don't get old in this business by being stupid.