Argus

[Deyan 31]

mark

******Refresh my memory: which manufacturers were these?

Mark

Altico and Mirage. From my memory! I'm lazy to search the SB's so I could be wrong !


I don't recall Altico/Dolphin or Sunrise/Wings ever "approving" an AAD in the way that, say, UPT or RI has. They just said they weren't in the AAD approval business. That's Basik's and Mirage's current position also (and maybe VSE/Infinity as well?). And that's different than saying those manufacturers had no issues or concerns.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Look at the following SB.

This is from the PSB03-11 from Mirage

Quote

SUBJECT: Suspension of approval for the installation and use of an Aviacom SA/NV ARGUS®
AAD in Mirage Systems, Inc. harness and container assemblies.

So apparently at some point Argus was approved in Mirage H&C
Thanks Jerry for fixing my laziness

Cheers

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[mark 102]

Deyan

Quote

SUBJECT: Suspension of approval for the installation and use of an Aviacom SA/NV ARGUS®
AAD in Mirage Systems, Inc. harness and container assemblies.

So apparently at some point Argus was approved in Mirage H&C
Thanks Jerry for fixing my laziness

I agree. Mirage changed their position again after that: http://pia.com/piapubs/ServiceBulletins/PSB6-11-2.pdf.

Mark

[bucketlistpilot 1]

Yep this was the biggest crock of shit I've seen in my lowly 5 years in this sport. Due to the APF (ex Cypress dealer) I had no choice other than to buy a new AAD, even though I couldn't find any proof that there was anything wrong with my 4yo Argus. Happily just this month I shipped Argus to a guy in Florida who is putting it to good use.

Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
[email protected]

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Mark,

IMO this is what each mfr should do. However, it is a free country.

And here is what Basik says:

BASIK AIR CONCEPT

Statement about the use of AADs in all Advance and Seven Harness Container Systems

31/03/11

Background: Increasing incidents, even mortal ones, through incomplete cut loops with Argus AADs

General Statement: Those so called electronic AADs such as Cypres, Vigil or Argus resemble
non- TSO-able devices, which are being installed soley by the wish of the owner or the obligation of his parachute association to meet his request for additional safety.

There is no legal compulsion by Civil Aviation Administrations to operate Personal Parachute Systems in conjunction with AADs.

Furthermore, there is no existing Minimum Performance Standard, which is binding for any AAD manufacturer in the design, production or testing of an ADD. It therefore resembles a typical commercial electronic consumer product.

AADs are not a part of the TSO qualification tests laid down in AS 8015B or in it‘s successor TS 135, though they all interfere with the tested and certified manual activation, by cutting the loop inside the reserve container. This fact can lead to a constraint or even an obstruction of the tested and certified manual activation method! But, due to the location of the cutter below the freebag (OUT and Seven) or below the pilot chute (IN version) in our rigs, an AAD problem does not compromise the ripcord function of the Advance and Seven rigs.

Because of the above explained situation, Basik Air Concept allows their installation in our Advance and Seven rigs but at the sole owner’s risk. The compatibility has to be declared by the individual AAD manufacturer upon tests he conducts with our product to determine compatibility in every aspect of the matter.

Basik Air Concept hereby strongly advises all owners of Advance and Seven Harness / Container Systems of the fact that we cannot take responsibility of the interaction of any AAD with our reserve container, generated by the means of such AAD by cutting the closing loop inside the container.

This responsibility lies solely with the AAD manufacturer, who has to provide proof to his customer, that his product does not negatively affect the tested and certified functions of an Advance or Seven reserve container. Valid alone are therefore the installation instructions and the owners manual of the AAD manufacturer which is an identical copy in our manuals. Basik Air Concept not being obligated to this but still cares about it‘s customers we strongly suggest that all Advance and Seven owners make themselves knowledgeable and verify the documentation of the AAD of their choice that all above mentioned criteria are present in writing and we suggest to only choose products of this kind where the manufacturer is able to provide these documents.

This is not within our legal scope nor within our responsibility to homologate or ban any AAD, this is to each National Parachute Association, governing body, or authority to do so if they think such decision is of advantage to their members.

Jérôme Bunker

Jerry Baumchen

[Joellercoaster 6]

Chris-Ottawa

The argument that it is banned in some rigs

...and countries.

Maybe you never want to travel to the UK, fine. But what about Dubai? Australia? Lot of places require you to have an active AAD, so you can't just jump with it switched off.

I don't actually have an opinion on the safety or otherwise of jumping Argus - I suspect it's probably about as safe as the others, within my tolerance - but there are very good reasons not to own one that aren't just some guy's opinion on the internets.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[ufk22 32]

Not a crock...
I WAS an Argus owner. Bought it on the recommendation of a rigger and because of the ability to set different modes.
Why jump with a device that in it's failure mode could eliminate my ability to save my own life (cutter locking onto reserve closing loop)?
I was just glad I wasn't one of the incidents that brought this to light.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[airdrop 18]

I have an Argus in my Wings. I don't trust any AAD out there on the market. The cutter can fail or unit malfunction on any of them but having an AAD is better than not having one at all. Even if the cutter fails to do the job it was designed to do, I can still activate my reserve since the cutter is located at the bottom, where is should be located in my opinion. Forgive me if I'm wrong but in the short years Argus was around at least 35 confirmed saves!