Recommendations for PD Storm Wing loading

[ltfabf 0]

Hi guys and gals,
Was hoping someone could shed a little light on WL for the PD Storm. I'm looking at getting a 230. My weight with gear is about 182-183lbs which will give me a WL of 0.79.
I am a student just about to get my A License with 33 jumps and got into skydiving with the dream of BASE jumping one day (Not in a rush to get there and want to prepare for this as best as possible). From everything I've been learning its recommended to be flying a 7-cell in the skydiving environment to prepare for BASE to be extremely familiar with the flight characteristics of a 7-cell canopy. I spoke to a rigger about it and he thinks this WL will be too light. Was hoping for some more recommendations about this. Don't want to rush into purchasing a canopy that isn't going to work for me.
Thanks in advance!

[wmw999 2,122]

I know that's a perfectly ok wing loading for the older generation canopies; they all used to be loaded like that. And accuracy canopies still are.

The Storm might be different, but your rigger may also simply be used to people who want to penetrate higher winds etc. you might have to alter criteria for jumping based on lighter wing loading, but that's just part of understanding your gear

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[countzero 7]

Leaning canopy control on a 7 cell is a good idea. Jumping one close to what your BASE WL will be, while nice, isn't completely necessary. Why not save some $$ and find a used Triathlon or Spectre that you'll load about 1.1. Or if you really want to learn to fly the hell out of a 7 cell find some dawgs to learn CRW from and jump a Lightning. I often joke that my Blackjack is just a big Lightning with vents.-- Cheers

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[likestojump 3]

you'll be fine.

A cheaper and more sensible choice for truly learning what a BASE canopy feels like it getting a cheap RavenIII or raven IV. You can get 3-4 of them for the price of a used Storm.

Not to mention you'll be super current when the time comes to use your reserve (not that you'll ever be able to make a Raven malfunction bad enough to need a reserve :)

[ltfabf 0]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone! Originally I was looking at used F111 Canopies, after reading an article by Steph Davis http://www.highinfatuation.com/blog/first-skydiving-canopy/ I started looking at the Spectre and the Storm. With a F111 Canopy, for my weight, what would be the recommended WL/Canopy Size? There is a Raven 2 218 for sale on ebay that is defintly less then 1/3 of the price of the Storm!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raven-II-218-sq-ft-skydiving-parachute-canopy-7-cell-F111/321441028787?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23490%26meid%3D8346279080819422263%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10073%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D220840505847

[likestojump 3]

ltfabf

Thanks for the quick replies everyone! Originally I was looking at used F111 Canopies, after reading an article by Steph Davis http://www.highinfatuation.com/blog/first-skydiving-canopy/ I started looking at the Spectre and the Storm. With a F111 Canopy, for my weight, what would be the recommended WL/Canopy Size? There is a Raven 2 218 for sale on ebay that is defintly less then 1/3 of the price of the Storm!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raven-II-218-sq-ft-skydiving-parachute-canopy-7-cell-F111/321441028787?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23490%26meid%3D8346279080819422263%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10073%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D220840505847

Ideal WL on a F111 canopy is under 1.0, and closer to .75 you get, the better you are simulating what you should be doing in BASE.

I am somewhat familiar with the canopy for sale on eBay.

all that said - I choose to have Spectres as my primary mains for skydiving.

[ltfabf 0]

There is a Fury 220 for sale that I am looking at as well as a Vector 3 with a 190 spectre. Of these two options, considering I will be Skydiving for another year or so at minimum before getting into BASE, which will be the better option to prepare me for my end goal?

[Quagmirian 40]

It depends. I'm far from an expert on this, but I think the Fury will be better if you want to learn how that kind of canopy handles, you may just not like it for everyday jumping. If you're going to be filling up your logbook with hop n pops and accuracy approaches, the Fury would probably be better. Otherwise, go for the Spectre.

[ridebmxbikes 0]

why not just hook up a base canopy to a skydiving rig? just make sure you get someone to show you how to make it open slooow and dump it sub terminal

[Deimian 43]

I think that by the time you are ready for BASE you'll be tired of that canopy. You won't be doing BASE jumps before you have a few hundred skydiving jumps. These few hundred skydives are needed to learn how to move in freefall and how to control your canopy.

Regarding the first point: It is not the same flying with a big container (needed for big canopies) than with a tiny BASE container. Probably the impact of this is not too big for standard BASE (belly to earth).

Regarding the second point: While having a canopy as similar as possible for skydiving and BASE will make you proficient at using it, I think that you'll get bored, and not necessarily better. Smaller and faster canopies will teach you how to react better. Very careful with this last sentence, I am not meaning downsizing too fast for your skill level, I am meaning that a canopy with a WL 1.1 will be faster, than a canopy with a WL of 0.75, and your mental process of looking for outs, adjusting descent rate, glide, flat turns, etc, will improve more than with a canopy whose descent rate is constantly too slow and that always give you much more time than what you will have in a BASE environment.

Being said that: I don't BASE jump, and I am far from being an expert skydiver, so take my advise for what is worth. This was just my reasoning, I might be wrong.

[riggerrob 558]

Your time would be wiser spent learning the finer points of landing accuracy.

[ltfabf 0]

Thanks guys for all your replies! I get what you mean by being bored by the canopy after a while etc. and the skills that will be learnt on a smaller canopy. And I can still do accuracy jumps with the Spectre which was what I try and do on each jump (slowly getting better and more consistent with this) but I think and keep getting told that having 200+ jumps with a F111 canopy doing accuracy landings for the most part will help the most in the long run! Thanks again for all your words of wisdom everyone! I might end up getting both, flying the Spectre first then moving to the Fury. Does anyone know if a Fury be used for wingsuiting?

[riggerrob 558]

Sure, Furies can easily be used for wing-suiting. They are (large 220 square foot) 7-cells that are docile - correction: really docile - during openings.

Oh!
If anyone is getting bored under canopy, they are not paying attention to what they are doing, where they are going or how to get the maximum performance out of their canopy.
By "maximum performance" I mean consistent standing landings less than 10 metres (yards for Americans) from target center.

[bjbkkb 1]

I always enjoy Steph's articles on climbing and base jumping. She makes an interesting statement "I would never consider buying a new one and being the one to pay for all that instant depreciation". Does a canopy really instantly depreciate 20% on the 1st jump? I thought it was a pretty lineal relation. Most canopies are good for X amount of jumps so X minus the actual number of jumps times X divided by the purchase price should give you the value of the canopy.

OK, I wasn't a math major but I did take first semester calculus three times

My goal is that when all is said done I will have a big pile of well used gear and a collection of great stories.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

countzero

Leaning canopy control on a 7 cell is a good idea. Jumping one close to what your BASE WL will be, while nice, isn't completely necessary.

You do need to learn classic accuracy approaches where 2/3 brakes yields a 1:1 glide scope with more brakes making it steeper (straight down is possible) and less flatter (about 2:1). Modern skydiving canopies don't do that regardless of cell count - more brakes flattens out the glide until you're just short of a stall.

You do need to learn how to land in deep brakes. BASE wing loadings allow for comfortable hard-ground landings flaring from 3/4 brakes. At skydiving wing loadings that's less likely to work well.

How much of that most people would want to do for the number of skydives that are prudent before BASE jumping (500-1000 are a much better idea than the 200 minimum some first jump courses accept) is a separate issue.

While you definitely want to get reasonably proficient (land within a couple feet of your target, not a couple centimeters) with classic accuracy out of an airplane before needing to use those skills in a BASE environment, skydiving and BASE jumping are different sports.

Skydive, learn about weather and winds, learn about gear and rigging, and enjoy it for years.

If BASE jumping becomes inevitable (it really is a dumb idea which will probably mean spending time in a hospital) get a handle on classic accuracy and BASE canopy skills (practice things like flying backwards and stall recovery) starting thousands of feet up in an airplane with a soft pea gravel pit to land in before you need to do those things in the less forgiving BASE environment.