Right of way

[quade 3]

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"Thomaston Upson County traffic this is Otter 221AP, Jumpers over Thomaston 14,000 and below in one minute."

Well, that assumes a lot.
It's a nice advisory, but to assume that anyone is actually listening to it would be a huge mistake. Assuming that the pilots that do hear it actually understand the implications is another mistake. Assuming that the pilots that do hear it and understand it could take action to avoid a freefall collision is, you guessed it, yet another mistake. Assuming that you notified ATC directly and they would somehow keep all other aircraft out of the area is, yet again, a huge mistake.
See THIS and THIS.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[billvon 2,475]

>That would help....but I don't think it's all that practical. I mean....does your DZ
> staff have an extra person to spare for this duty ALL day long?
If it's required for safety, then it has to be done. End of story. The argument "But we can't afford a rigger just to supervise packers all day long!" does not fly with the FAA; nor should it. Same with this. If we need it, we have to get it and pay for it somehow.
>I think educating pilots . . . .
I think that's a good idea.
>and maybe making an airspace around DZ's is the answer.
Like I mentioned above, this would effectively prohibit skydiving outside "columns of air" as defined on seldom-updated sectional charts. It was proposed in the 60's as a solution to separation issues; it was voted down then, and I think that was a good decision.
>I hardly think it is too much to ask for a pilot to listen to a radio. At least a
> portable.....
Be careful about asking for changes to the FAR's that may bite us later. All aircraft have and use radios? They may just do that. Keep in mind that, for some purposes, they consider us aircraft. Where would you mount yours?
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

Those little Parachute symbols are few and far between though. I know there isn't one for Thomaston and there are symbols where there hasn't been a drop zone in years.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[freeflir29 0]

All those points are exactly why I'm starting to think that the only way to do any good is to work with local pilots groups to educate everyone about jump operations. Likewise I think new jumpers and some older ones alike should be more strongly educated on spotting. The GPS doesn't look for traffic. "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[GrumpySmurf 0]

This is my take on it, I am no expert though...
Updating the sectionals doesn't happen by magic, someone has to notify the NOS about the inconsistency - such as the DZO (or a pilot who knows the sectional is in error) - it might take a few editions before the changes show - but they do eventually show. There is also the issue of pop up NOTAMs - they are filed everyday a skydiving operation is to take place, contacting the FSS about any pop up NOTAMs that are not listed in the directory for the airports along a route is not an overwhelming task - these were things I picked up from my grandfather (both he and my grandmother were flight instructors) - I'm sure any pilot would know about these services, and it wouldn't take alot for a glider pilot to pick up on them either.
I am not saying a collision between a jumper and an aircraft is entirely the planes fault - but I am saying both parties should take every reasonable precaution possible to avoid the possiblity - like avoiding any areas listed in a sectional with a parachute or NOTAM'd as PJE (if I remember the acronym correctly). I have a feeling diverdriver could answer the technicalities alot more acurrately than my feeble guesswork - I'm guessing that he is flying today, if he hasn't weighed in already.

[skybytch 259]

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All those points are exactly why I'm starting to think that the only way to do any good is to work with local pilots groups to educate everyone about jump operations.

Education is the only way to make general aviation pilots and other airsports enthusiasts understand what we do, and the only way to get them not to overfly "our airspace" while we are using it. Claiming that an accident or even a close call is "their fault" without having made the effort to educate them can be seen as nothing more than whining and does nothing to stop the problem. We need to remember that we don't own the airspace we fall and fly through, we share it with other aviation sports enthusiasts. It's as much our responsibility to watch out for them as it is their responsibility to watch out for us. After all... who's going to get the worst of a skydiver/aircraft collision???
At the little dz I "grew up" at, the dzo produced a brochure that detailed how we operated - every detail that could possibly affect a pilot flying into, out of or around the airport we jumped onto. He then distributed this brochure to every FBO, flight school, airport restaurant, etc., within 50 miles of the dz. Several local jumpers also joined the local pilots group in an effort to open up lines of communication. Did it help? Yup. I can only remember a couple of instances over four years where a pilot overflew the landing area and didn't respond to attempted radio contact, and those pilots were from out of the area. I believe he had the assistance of USPA on the brochure; not sure about that though...
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Amen to that dude...
'Look DOWN!' If there be sharks in the water, let them pass.

[ltdiver 3]

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I mean....does your DZ staff have an extra person to spare for this duty ALL day long? I doubt it.

At the little DZ where I learned, their landing area was 3 miles from their smaller airport and right in the path of Palm Springs International's landing pattern. Yes, they did stay in communication with ATC and have radio contact with DZ ground personell at the landing site.
The jump ship (C-182) had to recieve permission from both before a jump was made. Every time.
There were a more than a few times that the visual from the ground alerted our plane to go around 'cause of a private pilot passing too close. Kept the operation safer than most, and there were never any close calls.
In fact, one time the van didn't make it to the landing site, and the pilot (and DZO) turned the jump plane around and landed back at home base. He didn't want the added risk, and he knew the regs of having to have communication (on some level) with the landing area. As a student skydiver, this importance of everyone working together became very clear.
As billvon said, "If it's required for safety, then it has to be done. End of story."
ltdiver
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