gale 0 #1 August 8, 2002 Well I just got home from the dz. Spent 3.5 hours there and no jump. I'm at one of those cessna dzs and there aren't a lot of skydivers there, particularily today for some reason. I go out nice and early (being 4pm, nothing goes on before that) to make sure I get on something, I'm doing some coach jumps right now. I get there are there are four other jumpers, one of whom I ask to do a coach jump with me, he says yes, and I manifest us,. Now all we need is another two to fill the load. Well, two of the other jumpers were going up on the single slots left over on the tandem loads. No biggie, we'll just wait for some other people to arrive. So two other skydivers arrive and they manifest themselves on a different load with one of the skydivers that's been there all along. Another skydiver arrives, fills out the load, and off they go - leaving me on the ground. Yup, three and a half hours later and I leave after exhausting all possibilities of a load. I'm so upset. These people supposedly are the "cool, friendly" skydivers. Now I know this was all political, but I wasted a whole afternoon and it left a very bad taste in my mouth. I'm nice to everyone there and I don't get this. I'm actually really hurt and mad. I would have very happily made two jumps today but instead I left the dz having done none. I'm unhappy. GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gypsy 0 #2 August 8, 2002 I'm sorry to hear that Gale. I hope people will be more nice the next time you go out and you get to enjoy blue skies. Hang in there, people are well people, some are great others just suck, that's life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpull 0 #3 August 8, 2002 Gale, I am sorry from all the "REAL" skydives out here.Sometimes politics do play a part of our sport, but I really really hope today was just bad luck and not truly how things happen at your dz. Keep your head up. After all, everyone knows 'good things come to those that wait. Peace Ralph Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #4 August 8, 2002 I remember that....early on when the skills aren't up to par yet....especially on a weekday after work when there's only time for one or two jumps....the experienced jumpers usually wanted to go out and do something that I wasn't capable of. I remember feeling down about it, too. You just have to accept that sometimes they're gonna want to jump without a low time person on the load. If you're cool about that, then I bet they'll be a lot more accommodating other times. Of course, when I started, there were no coach jumps. People jumped with me out of the goodness of their hearts. I really came to appreciate that they allowed me on as many loads as they did.....lol.... Hang in there....before long, you'll be the one that everyone seeks out for a good 4-way or to organize the 8-way formation load! Keep your chin up, girl. Peas~ Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #5 August 8, 2002 It sounds more like a manifest issue than a snubbing, if you ask me. But, then again, I have no real experience jumping at a cessna dz- maybe that's how they do things?? The other jumpers manifesting weren't deliberately getting ahead of you, were they?? And you were doing a coach jump, so its not like you asked to join then and they said no. Manifest just put them ahead of you because that way they could fill the plane and make more money. Don't blame the jumpers, and bring the manifesters some good beer- maybe they will be more considerate next time. (Sometimes you have to suck up to manifest, even if they don't deserve it!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jams 0 #6 August 8, 2002 gail, Sad to hear you left the DZ with a bad taste....but lucky you! at the DZ on a week day, while i was busting my butt all day at the sweat shop.... i don't know the new AFF program and if you are cleared to solo yet (so let me stick my foot in my mouth). if you are not cleared to solo, be patient... Just hanging out and watching folks pack and land and tell stories should be enough entertainment to keep you high! i mean you could read the sims or something if you are bored. i spent days at the DZ not jumping because the winds were too high, or there were not enough jumpers to start the plane... but i was so happy to be there anyway it didn't matter that i didn't get to jump... it used to bother me when i wasn't noticed too, but i started jumping alone and learning sit and stand skills, coaching myself. i mean gaining the experience is more than half the fun anyway! Having someone to jump with helps with navigation, and fallrate stuff, but it isn't necessary if your goal is just to have a great time! i mean just getting out of the plane is an experience that some only dream of, so pace yourself and enjoy every moment spent at the DZ, even if you are not jumping. i remember when PJ (the pilot) looked over at me and laughed, saying i was so lucky to have all those new experiences still ahead of me to go through. Manifest, prepare a diveplan to work on a specific skill for yourself, go over the plan and be certain what you want to experience or work on, and be prepared to have more opportunities appear while you'r waiting for the plane to arrive... Although, it is a little hard to believe that a chick can't find someone to jump with. i mean at Byron the problem is the chicks are being taken on big ways that they are not ready for.... (so come out to Cal and you can find lots of folks to jump with) OTOH, if someone agreed to do a jump with you and then did something else, without discussing it with you... that would suck, shame on them... dont fret though, at least you got to hang out at the DZ peace and blue skies m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #7 August 8, 2002 I know exactly what you experienced, and I think it is more about the fact that a full load is 4 people than anything "political." When you are at a cessna DZ it only takes one person to screw stuff up. Case in point: A couple weeks ago I had come down from a jump and gotten packed and put myself on manifest (the only person manifested at the time) and then proceeded to wait. About half an hour later another guy came down, and I asked him if he wanted to do a 2 way, and he said yea, so I manifest him. Fast forward an hour later and it is getting close enough to sunset that each of the 2 182s was only going to be able to make one more load before dark. Well there were 4 static line students that wanted to make another jump, and they get priority because they pay more. So one plane gets 3 students and a JM. Leaving one student left. Seems like it would have worked out perfectly because we would have had the student and his JM and then our 2 way. Well what ended up happening was that the JM decided he was going to bump our 2way off of the load because he wanted to jump with his wife (who was a student but wasn't paying student prices because she uses her own gear). So even though we had patiently waited around for at least an hour (and hour and a half for me) we got screwed out of doing our 2way, because of one person. I wouldn't say that's so much political as someone not thinking about the fact that we had been manifest since before any of the students were even ready for their jumps yet. But with 4 person loads, that can easily happen. Not saying I was happy about it, in fact I left immediately after getting bumped and was fairly pissed. Plus the person who I was going to jump with ended up having to do a solo as the last slot on that load. That's just the way it goes sometimes. Anyway, all that having been said, I know exactly how you feel. It's really frustrating to wait around all that time just to find out that you aren't going to get to jump. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #8 August 8, 2002 uh, that would definately be a political move. bumped off for full ride studnets is one thing, but if you're manifested and get bumped by other up-jumpers that's not right in my book. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #9 August 8, 2002 Quotebut if you're manifested and get bumped by other up-jumpers that's not right in my book. Yea I didn't think it was right either, but I don't think it was political. That would imply that it happened because of who I am, as opposed to the JM who had to be there anyway being inconsiderate. Ideally his wife should have had to sit the jump out since we were both manifest long before she was even sure she was going to jump again. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
judedre 0 #10 August 8, 2002 i see you jump in Canada thats a good enough reason to move to FL and jump with the tumblefuqs ( www.tumblefuqs.com ) at skydive america PB we have big plane great weather and you would NEVER get bumped with us Damn rude canadians i say not good cricket especially from skydivers.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #11 August 8, 2002 Don't let a bad day get ya dawn girl. It will happen from time to time (though the manifest should have been able to work out something for you). I'm confident that it wasn't intended to be a personal affront, but more business oriented. Cool that you got out there tho. Getting to be know on the DZ helps get people to invite you on more stuff in the future.Hearts & Minds 2 to the Heart- 1 to the Mind- Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #12 August 8, 2002 Gale next time that happens I would key the plane J/K ~ Sometimes you need to be more assertive when getting on a load. Don't expect them to just notice you. Ya gotta charge....... Specially at a Cessna DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gale 0 #13 August 8, 2002 Yes I can jump solo. But I have to do four more coach jumps to get my A. (Here we have a solo level before you get your A) But I can't afford to just fun jump because I feel like it, I'm trying to get my lisence so the jumps are at least a little less. And we manifest oursleves, there is no manifester during the week usually. It just pissed me off because they saw me there are could have done a freefly 2-way (there were freefliers) and didn't. They just left me sitting there. And politics did have something to do with it as one of the guys won't get on the plane with me because of who I'm dating (yup, he hates my boyfriend that much) and another guy won't get on the plane with my coach just because he hates him! It's #($* infuriating. Aren't we all just there to jump for god sake. There's no one saying that if you hate someone you should have to jump with them, but not even get on the plane? Come on people. Where's all the peace, love and grooviness skydivers are supposed to exibit? GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #14 August 8, 2002 Well....surely you can understand folks going out after work to jump and not always wanting to jump with a student.... I enjoy jumping with students, but I sure don't want to do it all the time. When you're at a Cessnas dz, if you're getting on the plane with someone, you're usually jumping with them.... If ya' want to do a 4- or 5-way, you're not gonna be on the plane with a student and her coach. If there's a 2-way with no one to fill up the load or a 4-way waiting, the plane's probably gonna take the 4-way up.... Now, granted, it would have been kind for those folks to rearrange what they were doing to accommodate you, but it would also be much better form for you not to expect them to, imho. Peas! Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #15 August 8, 2002 But it sounds like our esteemed poster didn't get to jump period as nobody wanted to jump with her. I can understand that there will be times that we low-timers won't be included in certain drops, but how is a person going to get more experienced if nobody is willing to jump with them? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #16 August 8, 2002 Quotehow is a person going to get more experienced if nobody is willing to jump with them? Not only that, but from the description, they pulled rank and basically bumped her off the load even though she manifested first, which sucks. It would piss me off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #17 August 8, 2002 Maybe if you dump your boyfriend - you will get to jump more....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #18 August 8, 2002 lol.....so how exactly is this supposed to go? So there's a student and a coach manifested, but nobody to fill up the load, and there's a 4 way ready to go. Is the 4 way supposed to split up and some of them spend their money to do a 2 way to fill up your load? Or is the plane just gonna sit there until 2 more people come along to fill up the load? Come on.....sometimes you've just gotta take your lumps and move on. You can't REALLY expect for jumpers to cater to you like that....if you do, you're in for a rude awakening. It's just realistic....even where jumpers really do cater to low-time jumpers it's plain rude for you to expect that paying jumpers are gonna change their plans for you. It's not their fault that nobody else showed up to fill your load..... As far as how a person is going to get more experienced if nobody is willing to jump with them... I didn't hear her saying that nobody's willing to jump with her....just that on this particular day there weren't enough jumpers to fill up two loads, and the other 4 people wanted to jump together. If nobody EVER wanted to jump with you, I'd be finding another dz.... but you can't expect them to ALWAYS jump with you either.... Peas! Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #19 August 8, 2002 Quotelol.....so how exactly is this supposed to go? So there's a student and a coach manifested, but nobody to fill up the load, and there's a 4 way ready to go. Is the 4 way supposed to split up and some of them spend their money to do a 2 way to fill up your load? Or is the plane just gonna sit there until 2 more people come along to fill up the load? Come on.....sometimes you've just gotta take your lumps and move on. You can't REALLY expect for jumpers to cater to you like that....if you do, you're in for a rude awakening. It's just realistic....even where jumpers really do cater to low-time jumpers it's plain rude for you to expect that paying jumpers are gonna change their plans for you. It's not their fault that nobody else showed up to fill your load..... As far as how a person is going to get more experienced if nobody is willing to jump with them... I didn't hear her saying that nobody's willing to jump with her....just that on this particular day there weren't enough jumpers to fill up two loads, and the other 4 people wanted to jump together. If nobody EVER wanted to jump with you, I'd be finding another dz.... but you can't expect them to ALWAYS jump with you either.... Peas! Lindsey I learned at a cessna DZ, my first 200 or so jumps were out of a 182, the DZO was the tightest guy around with a penny, BUT, he would sent the plane with three people up, and he would send the plane with just a student and a JM. the experienced jumpers might have only gotten to go to 8 grand but it was a skydive. There was a manifest yourself list, and it was FIFO (first in first out). bumping someone like that is wrong, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #20 August 8, 2002 Lindsey, First of all, that wasn't the scenario described. Second of all, I'm well off student status, but I still have respect for people. It seems to me that some people in this situation forgot about that. I'm not saying that everything always goes as everyone wants, but some consideration might have been in order. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #21 August 8, 2002 Yeah....and actually we'll send our plane up with only 2 experienced jumpers....which actually LOSES money....but we do it regularly. That's a dzo's call, though. It would be a nice thing to do for your customers, though. In fact, Jim Weddle, at another dz around here use to come out on Wednesday and Fridays for me and a camera guy so that I could jump my board. Now THAT was accommodating.... Usually someone else would show up, but if not, he'd just fly the two of us as many times as we wanted to go up.... My husband would NEVER do that, but he's still pretty flexible. That's being kind. However....I still think it's rude for someone to come out and EXPECT for people to lose money or rearrange their plans to accommodate you.... ESPECIALLY if you're not willing to make a jump or two alone..... Some of my favorite jumps have been with newbies. But if anyone ever got huffy with me because I decided not to make a jump with 'em, you can bet I'd never make that person a priority again. Funny how this thread has struck a nerve with me....lol at myself.... Peas! Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #22 August 8, 2002 QuoteI still think it's rude for someone to come out and EXPECT for people to lose money or rearrange their plans to accommodate you... I never expected it, but it was appreciated, and we helped out around there to show our gratitide (wasn't a club), the way I read the original posting -- she was manifested and then got bumped -- I can understand if it was a student, and it was getting close to sunset, yadda, yadda, but if it was another up-jumper I don't think it's right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antithesis 0 #23 August 8, 2002 I know that it sounds like it sucks ... but when you're at a small cessna dz they can't put your name on a plane and hold it for you until you fill the load. Alot of times the "cliques" at the dz get up more than loners because they are already a load ready to go. Small dzs really need the cash too. Gale..... .. I can't stand this about small DZ's But if I didn't have mine then I would have to drive two and a half hours just to jump. -- The best way to make this work for you is just to plan ahead. Find a couple of people 3 is good who you have fun jumping with and then meet at the dz. You can always fill a load if you only need one person. I had to be borderline pesky at first to get onto loads but after a while people chill out- Most of them are probably pretty cool once you get to know them. I would jump with you.... a jump's a jump :) BGS I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gale 0 #24 August 8, 2002 Oh, I've been going there a while and I do know them, that might be what ticks me off so much. But, that being said, I will go out and try again tomorrow. And, worse comes to worse, there are always other dzs. Bigger planes, more skydivers, sounds good to me. GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #25 August 9, 2002 Quote And, worse comes to worse, there are always other dzs. Bigger planes, more skydivers, sounds good to me. Where you need 10 skydivers to fly the plane. It's a double edged sword. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
