Dumpster 0 #1 September 6, 2002 Please pardon the lengthy post - I received this from a close friend, and thought it worthy to share- I can't say that it is genuine as represented, regarding the author- I found this interesting, some points I agree with and some I don't. I do remember a time when I admired a Muslim's devotion to his faith, and when I also marveled at the color these people added to the American tapestry - I still do, but not quite the same way- Please read on-- With an open mind, as I often try to-- "YOU WORRY ME" A Pilot's Editorial I've been trying to say this since 9-11. I guess I will be labeled as a bigoted American By: Captain John Maniscalco An American Airlines Pilot *************************************************************** "You worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks. On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers. So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab /Muslim terrorist. How do I differentiate between the true Arab-Muslim-Americans and the Arab-Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter those very same good neighbors and children? The events of September 11th changed the answer. It ! is not m y responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of it's religions, with ALL of it's different citizens, with all of it's faults. It is time for every Arab-Muslim in this country to determine it for me. I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to it's flag? Do you proudly display in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your "Jihads"? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it. Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent. And no more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy ...I am only interested in action. What will you do for America -- our great country -- at this time of crisis, at this time of war? I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America". I want to see young Arab-Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole. The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want ! to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals. The very few Arab-Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States prove who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance. It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members defended Johnny Cochran and O. J. Simpson after the latter butchered his wife and murdered an innocent friend. A form whose members (some as young a five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, ! burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam. Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and you fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire middle-east? And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here? Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave. I want you to go back to your desert sandpit where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE! We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution in the world. I want to know where every Arab-Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand." "Until then! ... you worry me." Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #2 September 6, 2002 QuoteI guess I will be labeled as a bigoted American Yup, definitely a bigoted American. Why do people pass this tripe around? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #3 September 7, 2002 yawn...more like one of a million sheep bleating for your shepherd Timothey Mcvey...(christian..member of Elohim religious organization)..he did bad stuff too remember... Ku Klux Klan claims christian belief and biblical right (they did bad stuff too..you are probably too young really know other than what you saw in movies) Hitler in order to preserve the concept of the master race being christian had an article written explaining how Jesus was not a jew...(I could care less but obviously being christian was important for hitler) Do you know anything about the Iran Iraq war....at leat part of the political reason was that "Iraqis also perceived revolutionary Iran's Islamic agenda as threatening to their pan-Arabism." The spaniards gave native americans thae chance to convert to chrisitanity immediately or basically be exterminated, when they came to American (that cleared their conicience, if they did not convert god would let them be slaughtered). Of course there were Inquisitions in Europe and crusades in to the Holy land against (at that time enlightened compared to the illiterrate European kings) the muslims. Of course religion is used by tyranants to sway the will of his people towards what ever means a tyrant has. Look at this....maybe we were wide open for this crap.. http://www.blah3.com/timeline.html"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #4 September 7, 2002 Hey man, I'm only sharing, Like I said, some of this I can dig, some I can't, and I never said what was which. I just put it up here for all of to read and think about- I never even said I thought this was cool or crap- It's just there and made me think- Any thing wrong with that? Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #5 September 7, 2002 nothing is wrong with it as long as you always think for your self "Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #6 September 7, 2002 Just keep stirring the pot ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #7 September 7, 2002 >We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your > twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the attacks > of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that > which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution > in the world. I find these sort of rants ironic. "Rights under the constitution?" Not sure which constitution he's talking about but it sure isn't ours - or perhaps it's a revised version, just without amendment 1. If our persecution of people of islam includes arresting them to see if they're "with us or against us", then get rid of amendments 4, 5, and 6. And, of course, if you don't consider Arabs 'real citizens' of the US, get rid of amendments 14 and 15. If he does decide to alter the constitution, even temporarily, then count me out of his version of america. I support the constitution as the ultimate law of this land, one born in conflict, one that's kept us both free and safe for 200 years now. Revising it out of hate is a poor plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #8 September 7, 2002 Reality check I found this last sentence to be rather profound : QuoteWe cannot judge people by outward appearances alone, and that realization leaves us feeling scared and powerless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #9 September 7, 2002 >Timothey Mcvey >Ku Klux Klan claims christian belief and biblical right . . . And not to leave anyone out, Dr. Robert Goldstein was arrested last week with plans to blow up a local school. They found detailed plans to destroy the school, the purpose being "Kill all 'rags' at this Islamic Education Center -- ZERO residual presence -- maximum effect." They also found a small arsenal of bombs and guns. So better add the Jews to the list of people to distrust. Did we cover everyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outofit 0 #10 September 8, 2002 it appears dumpster is receiving some harsh criticism for exercising his right which is clearly protected under the first amendment. i don't proclaim nor do i consider myself to be a racist, however, it appears that those who are determined to destroy our country and the freedoms we enjoy on a daily basis are of middle eastern descent, and futhermore they justify their idealogical rage based upon the writings of the koran and the will of allah. this is not to say that all muslims are militant but i think the point dumpster was trying to make how are we to tell the difference? It is better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #11 September 8, 2002 Quoteit appears dumpster is receiving some harsh criticism for exercising his right I don't follow. Nobody criticized his right to post/say anything, people did criticize what he posted/said. Doesn't this constitute freedom of speech too? (BTW I didn't realize these forums had to ascribe to American amendments/laws). Quotethis is not to say that all muslims are militant but i think the point dumpster was trying to make how are we to tell the difference? Hmm, maybe some kid that got burnt by napalm in Vietnam or hurt by a stray bomb in Afghanistan has a hard time figuring out who the good and bad white people are. How are they supposed to tell? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VivaHeadDown 0 #12 September 8, 2002 Well, this post went mostly unread, but it lead to a pretty funny page with the Urban legends. Specifically the one about money and the European currency with animals. Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VivaHeadDown 0 #13 September 8, 2002 An equally credible piece of writing, but one that is worth your time: _________________________________________________________ From: Bin Laden, Osama [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:17 AM To: Cavemates Subject: The Cave Hi guys. We've all been putting in long hours but we've really come together as a group and I love that. Big thanks to Omar for putting up the poster that says "There is no I in team" as well as the one that says "Hang In There, Baby." That cat is hilarious. However, while we are fighting a jihad, we can't forget to take care of the cave. And frankly I have a few concerns. First of all, while it's good to be concerned about cruise missiles, we should be even more concerned about the scorpions in our cave. Hey, you don't want to be stung and neither do I, so we need to sweep the cave daily. I've posted a sign-up sheet near the main cave opening. Second, it's not often I make a video address but when I do, I'm trying to scare the most powerful country on earth, okay? That means that while we're taping, please do not ride your razor scooter in the background. Just while we're taping. Thanks. Third point, and this is a touchy one. As you know, by edict, we're not supposed to shave our beards. But I need everyone to just think hygiene, especially after mealtime. We're all in this together. Fourth: food. I bought a box of Cheez-Its recently, clearly wrote "Osama" on the front, and put it on the top shelf. Today, my Cheez-Its were gone. Consideration. That's all I'm saying. Finally, we've heard that there may be American soldiers in disguise trying to infiltrate our ranks. I want to set up patrols to look for them. First patrol will be Omar, Muhammed, Abdul, Akbar, and Richard. Love you lots. Osama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #14 September 8, 2002 QuoteHmm, maybe some kid that got burnt by napalm in Vietnam or hurt by a stray bomb in Afghanistan has a hard time figuring out who the good and bad white people are. How are they supposed to tell? Excellent point. or some kid in a latin american or carribean countries (El salvador/Guatemala/haiti..etc) where we caused civil wars/coups."Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #15 September 8, 2002 Again I feel I must mention I didn't write this, I only posted it, as some of ot's contents are a little thought- provoking - other statements are tripe, Sort out which is which for yourself. The first amendment allows us to speak out minds- and has plain human beings we have the ability to sort out and interpret what is said for ourselves- therefore one person's truth is another's fiction, (or what have you-) As I walked the streets in Saudi Arabia during the war how do you think I felt? Have you ever heard Muslims being called to prayer five times a day? Many of you probably not- I have, and that experience changes the way I interpret what I read, view and hear on the radio- as your life experiences, education and upbringing no doubt do for you. I would thank you to keep this in mind! Blue ones, my friends! Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #16 September 8, 2002 QuoteHave you ever heard Muslims being called to prayer five times a day? Many of you probably not- I have, Granted I was in the United Arab Emirates (Bankers of Osama) which is probably the cleanest and safest place over there unlike Saudi. I was there this winter (4 months after 9/11)while the Israelis were doing the masacre at Jenin, Bush was gesticulating about the Axis of Evil, and Reuters and AP were reporting about all the civilian casualties in afganistan that were not reported in CNN US. I drove by myself all over the UAE in the desert and took taxis on 2.5 hour trips. I stayed in portable housing outside of a plant..the housing was called "the American camp" by the locals. I was scared when I arrived, but I was treated very civilly. I have really mixed over there, I have felt uncomfortable but I have been welcomed by very kind citizens also. The people that were the nicest were poor pakistanis and persons from palestine and Jordan. Some of the rudest were rich arabs fat on oil money. I have also (at the tender age of 7-13) been yelled at and told I'm going to hell by catholic and baptist preachers. culture shock affects everyone. Saudi is the way it is because of the saudis. The emirates is different because of its rulers, and Libya is different because of its ruler. The're all muslim but how the people act is caused by their rulers. If a dictator can hypnotise a populace and blame poverty and starvation on an outside power in order to keep themselves in power, they will do it. And religion (or the state as a religion) is used to bend peoples will. wait I'm ranting... I understand your point and everyone can not help being prejudiced to some extent. ramon"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #17 September 8, 2002 QuoteAnd not to leave anyone out, Dr. Robert Goldstein was arrested last week with plans to blow up a local school. They found detailed plans to destroy the school, the purpose being "Kill all 'rags' at this Islamic Education Center -- ZERO residual presence -- maximum effect." They also found a small arsenal of bombs and guns.Did any of the news stories about this case specifically use the word "terrorist?" I have been waiting very patiently for a year now to hear the word "terrorist" applied to a person of any other race than arab. So far, I haven't noticed any. In fact, I've noticed exactly the opposite: that the word "terrorist" is specifically not used in reference to anyone other than Arabs. I find that frustrating and racist, because you had better believe that Arabs are not the only people among whom terrorists dwell.A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #18 September 9, 2002 right on. The US sponsored terrorism in El Salvador it was called a fight against communism. Catholic priests and missionarys were slaughtered. The UN as declared Israel a terrorist state several times but the US always vetos."Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #19 September 9, 2002 Cool- So you know at least to some extent, what it feels like to walk around a "stranger in a strange land-" I walked around in a US military uniform- Imagine that! I felt like I had a huge target on my back- For the most part we were treated well, especially when we came into town to spend money- We ate some wonderfully good food, too. But we got an awful lot of cold stares, and when Prayer time came the "religious police" ( The exact term escapes me-) would have loved to stomp us- I beleive the term "terrorist" applies to more than just people of Muslim faith, etc- I know the CIA has done thier share of covert terrorism- And Tim McVey was a terrorist in all truth and effect also- But that does not make all governmaent offcials terrorists, does not make all Muslims terrorists, does make all militia members terrorists, any more than it makes you or I a terrorist. For that matter, If the local elementary school has a kid who bullies others, I suppose he could be labled a terrorist? After all, he's playing on the fear of others, right? Hell, when I was in sales I used fear as a selling tool- I guess I was a sales terrorist! I'm ranting, or whatever- but that should add some fuel to the fire--- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyflier 0 #20 September 9, 2002 Quote we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire middle-east? Wow. That's quite a statement. I wonder if the author has visited any of the many other countries in the middle east. I personally could not disagree more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #21 September 9, 2002 >it appears dumpster is receiving some harsh criticism for exercising > his right which is clearly protected under the first amendment. Well: -No one is attacking him but rather the piece he posted -The right to free speech includes the right to criticize. >i don't proclaim nor do i consider myself to be a racist, however, it > appears that those who are determined to destroy our country and > the freedoms we enjoy on a daily basis are of middle eastern > descent . . . I agree that the 9/11 incident was perpetrated by such people, but they are simply one in a long procession of people trying to destroy our country. Recently, we've seen quite a few white terrorists in the US (Dr. Goldstein comes to mind.) Twenty years ago they were Russians. In Palestinian territories, all terrorists are Jewish. In Afghanistan, all terrorists are Americans. If your an Albanian all terrorists are Yugoslavian. It all depends on your definitions and where you happen to live. On a more practical note, by singling out one nationality, we will make it much easier for the next terrorist attack by someone else. (Think there are no North Korean terrorists?) >and futhermore they justify their idealogical rage based upon the > writings of the koran and the will of allah. And we justify our patriotic retalitaions by chanting "one nation under god." Every country has their own calls to faith to justify their actions. >this is not to say that all muslims are militant but i think the point > dumpster was trying to make how are we to tell the difference? Same way we know if a black man in an inner city is a criminal. Same way we know if a nondescript white guy is a terrorist who blew up a building in Oklahoma City. Same way we know if a Latino teenager is a gang member. Same way we know if a Chinese grad student is a spy - through our police and investigative organizations. In all those cases, though, their rights are protected under our constitution, as they should be. Our constitution has dealt with criminals, traitors, terrorists and foreign enemies for 200 years now; it will do so in the future. Don't worry, our forefathers prepared us pretty well for dealing with this (and future) crises. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #22 September 9, 2002 the author was probably extremely sympathetic to Israel for some reason or another "Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #23 September 9, 2002 Welcome to 'the only civilized democratic nation in the middle east' http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/index.htmlWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #24 September 9, 2002 Quotehttp://www.gush-shalom.org/english/index.html what is this crap?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #25 September 9, 2002 My guess is going to be it was an atempt at showing "The most civil palace in the Middle east" being not so civil....Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
