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quade

What's the freekin' deal with conspiracy theories?

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>Mr. Von , Is there any reason you can think of why demolition
> contractors use explosives instead of fire?

Cheaper, easier to control, easier to sequence, less danger of spread.

>But that is what we are expected to believe. That the random fires
> created by an aircraft impact to a structure brought forth a fire which
> melted through the steel colums supporting this building ,melted
> through all of the supporting steel at a simultaneous moment in
> time.

Nope, first one went; the remaining ones held the load. Then another one went. Then a third. (This, of course, is in addition to the ones weakened by the initial impact.) Finally a support went and the load was too much for the remaining ones. One floor collapsed. It hit the floor beneath it and collapsed it; and so on down to ground level.

Unless, of course, the building was swarming with secret commandos who waited for about an hour for some reason, then set off the secret charges (miraculously undamaged by the impact!) to bring the building down. Perhaps they forgot about daylight savings time. Or Lex Luthor used his secret "laser beam" to slice through the supports. Or unless those UFO's have finally had it with us and wanted to teach us a lesson. Yeah! That's it! I think I saw a movie about that once . . .

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>Of course I know this Mr. Von, however I also know that when I
> visited the National Museum as a child I did witness the bottom of
> a "space capsule" encased in plexiglass and I did read the plaque
> next to it which stated the plexiglass was there to preserve the
> moon dust. I observed some type of dust between the plexiglass
> and the capsule.

Even when I was 12, I wouldn't have fallen for that. Odd that only you, out of the millions of people who have seen the, noticed that.

>Is the Smithsonian run by a government agency? If so your
> statement and my recollection are just not compatible.

Hmm! Either the millions who have seen it didn't notice that glaring discrepancy, or you misread a sign when you were 12. Which is the more likely?

>Hey is this the same governmental body who knew about the attack
> on Pearl Harbor way in advance and took no actions to prevent the
> attack? Because the attack would solve some problems?

Nope, because of incompetence. Same reason they could smuggle those knives on the airliners; same reason we sometimes kill our own servicemen with friendly fire; same reason skydivers sometimes go in. Secret USPA conspiracy to kill skydivers who know too much? Or just people who take risks and sometimes misjudge their abilities? You decide.

>If I was smart enough to learn to fly a jumbo jet and to get myself
> and all my fellow conspirators enough false ID and documentation
> to board US planes . . .

Heck, I could do that! Wouldn't even need any ID. My driver's license is sufficient to get me on to any plane as a passenger, and I've flown the same simulators FlightSafety uses to train 757 pilots.

>and smart enough to plan a brilliant ,feindish, sucessful attack
> against three different high profile targets and to figure out the
> logistics to pull it all together so that each target is hit within an
> hour of the others

Four of me could do the same, and could have the same 75% success rate.

>If I'm wily enough to hold a jetload full of passengers at bay with
> only a box cutter , if I'm cunning enough to get that weapon
> through the metal detector,

Cunning? You can get a plastic and metal boxcutter through airport security _now_!

>Do you really believe that I'm stupid enough to leave so much
> evidence behind in a rental car at Logan Airport?

Why not? Dead men don't care how much evidence they leave; they're dead. Do Palestinian suicide bombers go to great lengths so people can't identify their trails? Nope. They don't care either. They're dead.

>Unless of course, I wanted you to believe that I was someone I
>was not!

Or unless you wanted the US to know exactly who extracted their revenge.

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>What happened to the American Spirit? Where are the John Waynes?
>The Duke didn't have any body piercings,

Yeah, but Vin Diesel did, and I just saw a movie where _he_ was the good guy! He woulda taken out those hijackers in a heartbeat. So next time you're sitting on an airliner next to some big burly guy with lotsa tattoos and piercings, count your blessings.

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>But that is what we are expected to believe. That the random fires
> created by an aircraft impact to a structure brought forth a fire which
> melted through the steel colums supporting this building ,melted
> through all of the supporting steel at a simultaneous moment in
> time.
"Nope, first one went; the remaining ones held the load. Then another one went. Then a third. (This, of course, is in addition to the ones weakened by the initial impact.) Finally a support went and the load was too much for the remaining ones. One floor collapsed. It hit the floor beneath it and collapsed it; and so on down to ground level. "

Yes Mr. Von, we all realize the towers collapsed. The question is that if the realistic scenario you've provided [first one went , then another , then a third ] why did the collapse occur straight down? Considering the scenario of one column after the other failing, we would expect a twisting and toppling collapse. But no Mr. Von, the building collapsed almost exactly vertical. The type of collapse one would expect from well placed and exactly timed explosive charges not an unpredictable fire.
Cloud Seeder



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[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2]>Of course I know this Mr. Von, however I also know that when I
> visited the National Museum as a child I did witness the bottom of
> a "space capsule" encased in plexiglass and I did read the plaque
> next to it which stated the plexiglass was there to preserve the
> moon dust. I observed some type of dust between the plexiglass
> and the capsule.
"Even when I was 12, I wouldn't have fallen for that."[/size]
[/font]
[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2] Interestingly enough Mr. Von, even in your advanced years you seem to believe much of the governments disinformation!![/size][/font]
I did witness that exhibit.
Cloud Seeder
[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2] [/size][/font]

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But I'm the one with the rediculous scenarios? C'mon Mr Indyz, criminals may be dumb but do you really believe that's what happened?



"You haven't actually given us a scenario beyond "government conspiracy." So, to answer your question, yes."

Mr. Indyz, the question was this;You expect me to believe that Timothy Mc'Veigh masterminded a plot to create a huge bomb and detonation device ,concealed it in a bright yellow moving van that the ATF agents never noticed parked right out front on the morning of the bombing as they scoured the bushes around the building looking for a bomb?
But then he was cruising along in a *getaway car* with no license plates? LOL!!

Like "Attention Please" "Please pull Me Over" ! "I have a gun under my clothing . I just killed countless good people but I won't draw my gun on you Mr. Officer! LOFL!
and your answer is "Yes"? ?
Do you Mr Indyz actually believe that to be a plausible scenario?
That the mastermind of one of the most despicable crimes in all of American history was dumb enough to plan his escape in a car with no tags, a car filled with evidence which linked him to the bombing, and that this mass murderer who was carrying firearms was reticient to use them against a State Patrol officer who pulled him over?
",yes"

And ya' wonder how they get away with it folks???
Yo' Mr Indyz,
Where did you get your info about the traffic stop of Timothy Mc'Veigh?
Was it from an established media source?
And where did the media get their information on the traffic stop of Timothy Mc'Veigh?
Don't bother Mr Indyz, it's a rhetorical question. There is only one source from which the media could have gotten this info, The Government .

Cloud Seeder

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Are you going to wait until it's your turn before you act??


Now we are off topic. If you would like to continue this side discussion, please start another thread or contact me via private messages.

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Mr. Indyz, the question was this;[#003366]You expect me to believe that Timothy Mc'Veigh masterminded a plot to create a huge bomb and detonation device ,concealed it in a bright yellow moving van that the ATF agents never noticed parked right out front on the morning of the bombing as they scoured the bushes around the building looking for a bomb?

But then he was cruising along in a *getaway car* with no license plates? LOL!!

Like "Attention Please" "Please pull Me Over" ! "I have a gun under my clothing . I just killed countless good people but I won't draw my gun on you Mr. Officer! LOFL

and your answer is "Yes"? ?

Do you Mr Indyz actually believe that to be a plausible scenario?

That the mastermind of one of the most despicable crimes in all of American history was dumb enough to plan his escape in a car with no tags, a car filled with evidence which linked him to the bombing, and that this mass murderer who was carrying firearms was reticient to use them against a State Patrol officer who pulled him over?


You have interpreted my response correctly, although I wouldn't call Timothy McVeigh a "mastermind."

He built a really crude bomb, put it in a truck that he rented with a cheap fake ID, and parked it outside a building. He left bomb residue on his clothes, fingerprints on receipts for ammonium nitrate fertilizer, phone cards that showed his path, and, yes, he drove a car that didn't have license plates.

The police catch hardened killers every day, killers who are carrying weapons that choose not to use them. Remember, McVeigh probably thought that he was just going to get a ticket for driving without plates. Then he'd just disappear. By the time he was caught with the gun, he knew he was going to jail but didn't think he would be connected with the bombing. Then he would just get out on bail and skip town. The cops just got lucky.

I also cannot find one single reference to ATF agents sweeping the compound the morning before the blast. I would appreciate it if you could point one out to me.

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"Even when I was 12, I wouldn't have fallen for that."

>Interestingly enough Mr. Von, even in your advanced years you
> seem to believe much of the governments disinformation!!

Well, Don, you caught us. Here we were, thinking no one would ever catch on to our diabolical schemes, but we didn't count on your keen intellect. We would have gotten away with it, too, if not for you meddling kids!

Yep, the Apollo thing - my fault. See, when we made all those models, at first we made a "film" of the command module actually landing on the moon, and so we put up that sign at the Smithsonian to explain the dust. But then Lisa (yeah, she's in on this too - all the moderators are) noticed that the CM doesn't really have any landing gear. Or descent engines. And that made it hard to explain the purpose of the LEM anyway. So we took the sign down, and hoped no one noticed our little gaff. But we couldn't pull that one over on you. All our hours of work with scissors and super-8 film, foiled by one 12 year old kid!

And Elvis? No doubt you've caught on that he's not really dead - most of the supermarket tabloids have figured out our plot on that one. We kidnapped him so he could kill JFK for us. I know, I know, the history books say that JFK was killed in 1963, and Elvis died in 1977, but we print the history books down here in our secret lair, so "fixing" that was no problem.

Then there was that whole Bin Laden thing. I mean, the history books all say we gave him billions of dollars in the '80s so he (and the mujahideen) could fight the communists in Afghanistan, but come on - do you really think the US government could be that dumb, to send weapons and money to fanatic guerillas who don't really like the US? Instead, it all went to keeping the Reagan/Madonna affair secret. Of course we kept a little cut for ourselves. And if anyone ever threatens to spill the beans on us - we have the tapes, and believe me, they ain't pretty.

And while hatching secret conspiracy plots can get tiring, at least it's fun in the lair. We still have Elvis here, although he's getting a little long in the tooth, and between him, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin we have quite the band down here. The evil clone gets scared when Janis sings (her voice has gotten even rougher, if you can believe that) but other than that, they're a pretty decent oldies band.

BTW, ever look closely at the members of the Flying Elvi? Ever notice one who looks just a little _too_ much like an overweight, 67 year old version of the King? After watching Quade's 4-way videos for about the millonth time he finally gave skydiving a shot, and seems to actually have a knack for it.

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THE FOLLOWING IS INTENDED EYES ONLY FOR BILL VON KENNEDY:

Bill,

Leesten vary carefully... I vill say zees only once.:ph34r:

This Mr. Don has rumbled us, there is no telling how far it has got! It may be neccessary to arrange an "accident", but what sort of accident?

Now, no offence bill, but car crashes are OUT. You've already done it to death (excuse the pun) with James Dean, Chappaquiddick (stupid scenario - even if we were laying bridge when we were thinking it up) and the Diana / Dodi matter was particularly il-conceived. What if the papparrazzi had kept taking photos?!!!

Likewise the "Shot by Mysterious Malcontent" scenario is loking a bit tired. OK, it worked for JFK, I'm pretty sure that Martin Luther and James Earl are still shacked up, but bear in mind that it didn't work for Reagan and that's why Maddy had to cancel her "Overdose". BTW, how is Elvis? Is he still on that Vegetarian kick? Personally I think his nut cutlet and salad recipe tastes like it's already been processed by another herbivore's digestive system.

I suppose that we could always invite him out to Area 51. Perhaps once he learns that it's actually the biggest (and most private) DZ in the world he might "come around" to our way of thinking. Maybe that and a private concert by Buddy? Maybe a live show with a bit of Hendrix and Marley's new RaggaeRock would help?

(If he does prove "malleable" please remind him NOT to log his 4-way jumps out of our Blackbird). Apparently some of our guests have been logging 6 minutes of freefall and 200 points. This takes a bit of explaining when other skydivers look at their jump logs).

If that doesn't work, then I suppose we'll just have to get him announced as a replacement crew member for our manned Mars landing. Do you think that the public would swallow "He parachuted down from the Mars Lander to recce the landing site and the lander "landed" on him" scenario?

While I'm here, How are JFK and Marilyn? Last time I spoke to him he had a bit of a headache.

I'll not sign this in case someone else out there reads this.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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Hi Justin,

Don't worry... I have a cunning plan.

BillVon is going to print up a book which proves that all the current "conspiracy theories" are in fact being circulated by the US Government as part of a massive cover-up:D. This way, next time we drop one of our flying saucer WDIs anyone who sees it will assume that it's just part of the disinformation campaign.

That should keep the public from the truth about Martin Luther and James Earl being lovers, or about Madonna and Ronald Reagan - getting her married to that Brit was good disinformation, but I think we went a bit over the top having the guy on the bagpipes play "Like a Virgin" when she came to Scotland - I mean, who's going to believe that. As for JFK and Marilyn shacking up in Canada (please tell them to STOP working as extras on the "X-Files), I suppose that all worked out but we were lucky getting George and Barbara to adopt thir illegitimate child. Still, it's nice to see "Dubya" following in his dad's footsteps but I do wish he would stay the hell away from Dallas. It's just that sort of thing that might let the public catch on. He sure has his mother's brains.

As for Elvis, come on, it was brilliant! Who would suspect us of taking a fading vegetarian rock singer, putting him in an inflatable jumpsuit, gradually blowing it up so everybody thought he was overeating, then faking his death so his record royalties would allow us to form the Starbucks Empire? Incidentally, I still think the name "Starbucks" was something of a dead giveaway!

How is Deano? Is he still repairing and selling Porsches?

How is Osama getting on? Has he settled down in our caves? I suppose he'll feel quite at home there. When you see him give him our apologies and explain we'll get him out once Dubya has shifted blame onto the Osmonds like he was supposed to in the first place. Once that's in place we should be able to expand our Area 51 Dropzone a good few miles Eastwards - certainly enough to cover Jessica's dodgy spotting from the Blackbird.

While I'm on, see the next time we're doing CReW over New Mexico, Please tell SkyBytch to leave her "mysterious green light" flashlamp behind! I'm getting a bit tired of flapping about under my Triathlon muttering "take me to you leader" while you stand in front of the locals in your black jumpsuit wearing the Ray-Ban Predators and pointing your hook-knife at them.>:(

Regards,

Mike D01270.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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"Well, Don, you caught us. Here we were, thinking no one would ever catch on to our diabolical schemes, but we didn't count on your keen intellect. We would have gotten away with it, too, if not for you meddling kids!
Yep, the Apollo thing - my fault. See, when we made all those models, at first we made a "film" of the command module actually landing on the moon, and so we put up that sign at the Smithsonian to explain the dust. But then Lisa (yeah, she's in on this too - all the moderators are) noticed that the CM doesn't really have any landing gear. Or descent engines. And that made it hard to explain the purpose of the LEM anyway. So we took the sign down, and hoped no one noticed our little gaff. But we couldn't pull that one over on you. All our hours of work with scissors and super-8 film, foiled by one 12 year old kid!
And Elvis? No doubt you've caught on that he's not really dead - most of the supermarket tabloids have figured out our plot on that one. We kidnapped him so he could kill JFK for us. I know, I know, the history books say that JFK was killed in 1963, and Elvis died in 1977, but we print the history books down here in our secret lair, so "fixing" that was no problem.
Then there was that whole Bin Laden thing. I mean, the history books all say we gave him billions of dollars in the '80s so he (and the mujahideen) could fight the communists in Afghanistan, but come on - do you really think the US government could be that dumb, to send weapons and money to fanatic guerillas who don't really like the US? Instead, it all went to keeping the Reagan/Madonna affair secret. Of course we kept a little cut for ourselves. And if anyone ever threatens to spill the beans on us - we have the tapes, and believe me, they ain't pretty.
And while hatching secret conspiracy plots can get tiring, at least it's fun in the lair. We still have Elvis here, although he's getting a little long in the tooth, and between him, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin we have quite the band down here. The evil clone gets scared when Janis sings (her voice has gotten even rougher, if you can believe that) but other than that, they're a pretty decent oldies band.
BTW, ever look closely at the members of the Flying Elvi? Ever notice one who looks just a little _too_ much like an overweight, 67 year old version of the King? After watching Quade's 4-way videos for about the millonth time he finally gave skydiving a shot, and seems to actually have a knack for it. "

Well Mr. Von,
It has become excrutiatingly clear to me that you and your cronies here on Dropzone.com are not interested in "serious" discussion but prefer to satirize serious subjects.
"To each his own".
That's my motto.
I admit that I find it unfortunate that in my quest to find a more serious type skydiving forum,Mr. Von, my stop at www.dropzone.com didn't measure up.
Oh well,
I'll continue the search .
I truly hope that Andy finds the keys to a peaceful life and that the bruises to that young ladys' jaw/ psyche heal in time.
With all that said and as the sun sets in the west, I bid you a fair *adieu * Mr.s Von, Quade , and Indyz.
Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings for all of you and all of my fellow skydivers,
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY a.k.a. Cloud Seeder

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>It has become excrutiatingly clear to me that you and your cronies
> here on Dropzone.com are not interested in "serious" discussion but
> prefer to satirize serious subjects.

>I admit that I find it unfortunate that in my quest to find a more
> serious type skydiving forum,Mr. Von, my stop at www.dropzone.com
> didn't measure up.

"Didn't measure up?" I love it! On a different forum you posted:

"As I have posted before I enjoy being antagonistic or
argumentative solely for the purpose of arguing. The intended purpose of my postings are for my own entertainment .They are not meant to be informative or enlightening. They may not even be factual. . . .

If, for some reason you are not offended, please write me with a description of yourself including your name, race, weight, religious views, political party, strong opinions, physical disabilities, weird sexual preferences, or anything else that you are touchy about, and I will try to offend you in a future post."

So if, by your leaving, I take it that you were unable to sufficiently offend us, good luck in finding people with thinner skins somewhere else on the net. Perhaps a far right (or far left) political board somewhere - those people seem to take themselves _quite_ seriously.

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LOL Mr Von! You actually "get" it!

[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2]"If, for some reason you are not offended, please write me with a description of yourself including your name, race, weight, religious views, political party, strong opinions, physical disabilities, weird sexual preferences, or anything else that you are touchy about, and I will try to offend you in a future post."
So if, by your leaving, I take it that you were unable to sufficiently offend us, good luck in finding people with thinner skins somewhere else on the net. Perhaps a far right (or far left) political board somewhere - those people seem to take themselves _quite_ seriously. "[/size]
[/font]
[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2] Damn !!! And just when I was about to give up on this pierced and tattooed forum, Bill Von saves the day for you!!! Basically he's convinced me to "stick around".[/size][/font]
I think he wants me to stick around and attempt to offend you.
I feel so much like family now!!!!!
Hey sister, is that a tattoo or a rug burn? LOL!!

CloudSeeder, not going nowhere!
all together now.... "Thanks Bill!!!!>:(


[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2]
[/size]
[/font]

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But then Lisa (yeah, she's in on this too - all the moderators are) noticed that the CM doesn't really have any landing gear. Or descent engines. And that made it hard to explain the purpose of the LEM anyway.


Sigh. I really wish you'd quit implicating me in the boss... err I mean these grandious schemes, bill. I've built a pretty good front... err I mean life for myself here. I'd like to keep it.
Quote

and between him, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin we have quite the band down here


And Jim is still really, really sexy. Wait. Um. I didn't say that.
Nevermind.

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"You have interpreted my response correctly, although I wouldn't call Timothy McVeigh a "mastermind."
He built a really crude bomb,"

No Mr Indys, The bomb that brought down the Murrow Building was a DEVASTATING bomb .
A Bomb that destroyed several buildings ,killed many people and impacted the lives of many others for ever! A bomb that forever changed life in these United States!
That bomb was one of the first terroristic acts which started the populace thinking about trading away their Constitutional Rights for the promise of security.
No Mr Indys, The Bomb that Mr Mc'veigh supposedly constructed may appear crude to the ignorant, non thinking layman, however let me tell you that the Bomb that Timothy Mc'Veigh supposedely constructed was a very "smart" bomb!
Cloud Seeder

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The Bomb that Mr Mc'veigh supposedly constructed may appear crude to the ignorant, non thinking layman, however let me tell you that the Bomb that Timothy Mc'Veigh supposedely constructed was a very "smart" bomb!



I supose we're arguing semantics, but I was taught how to build that exact bomb (diesel and fertalizer) in my grade 7 chemistry class. In fact, we built one, then took it out to the school yard and detonated it.

You may or may not want to call it crude, but it certainly was not complex.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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I admit that I find it unfortunate that in my quest to find a more serious type skydiving forum,Mr. Von, my stop at www.dropzone.com didn't measure up.



Don --

I believe dropzone.com is a fairly serious skydiving web site. I've found none better. From your posts though, it didn't seems as if you were actually looking for a discussion about skydiving.

Sorry to disappoint you in that we could not provide you with enough excellent entertainment. You have your disclaimer and I have mine. Currently it's at the bottom of my signature. ;)
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I admit that I find it unfortunate that in my quest to find a more serious type skydiving forum,Mr. Von, my stop at www.dropzone.com didn't measure up.



"Don --
I believe dropzone.com is a fairly serious skydiving web site. "
Oh And I have no doubt that you are exactly right Paul.. Did some one say *Boobies*????
"I've found none better. From your posts though, it didn't seems as if you were actually looking for a discussion about skydiving. "
Well Mr Quade, I did come to the forum looking for a discusion about skydiving when I noticed a thread which you yourself had started.
Knowing your name and credibility I clicked on that thread expecting some serious skydiving discussion.
Alas! This was not to be!
I'm afraid I was sucked into a discussion about conspiracy theorist and theories. And by a moderator no less!
Whoa is me!;>)
Well Paul it seems that another moderator has now challenged me to live up to my disclaimer and attempt to offend the good pierced and printed people on Dropzone.com!
Not my style! It would be like shooting ducks on the water!
No Paul ,what Mr. Von seems to have missed is that I was over here playing nicely and having a genuinely good time.
If it's alright with the greenies and the HH I think I'll stick my head in here every now and then and attempt to be offensive in a civil manner !LOL!
Oh well how ever it goes,
Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings
for you and yours Mr. Quade,
"Treetop"

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Knowing your name and credibility I clicked on that thread expecting some serious skydiving discussion.



Knowing your name and credibility I came to this thread and got exactly what I expected.

Quote

Not my style! It would be like shooting ducks on the water!



I think you'll find that some of us were on rec.skydiving long before most people came around to the net and have subsequently formed our own opinions about your style.

You're more than welcome on Dropzone.com. Same rules apply to you over here as to everyone else. Break them and it'll be like shooting a duck on water for me! ;)
Safe swoops
Sangiro

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Well Mr Quade, I did come to the forum looking for a discusion about skydiving when I noticed a thread which you yourself had started.

Knowing your name and credibility I clicked on that thread expecting some serious skydiving discussion.

Alas! This was not to be!

I'm afraid I was sucked into a discussion about conspiracy theorist and theories. And by a moderator no less!



Did you happen to read the discription of this forum?

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