LadySkyDIve 0 #1 June 25, 2003 If someone has done a few tandems in the past, plans to do a tandem about every year or two, but doesn't plan to do AFF or jump on his/her own, is that person considered to be a "skydiver"? I've always been curious about this 'cuz I've met several people who meet this category who have told me that they are skydivers. Curious to hear others' opinions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #2 June 25, 2003 As far as I'm concerned, a skydiver opens their own parachute, whether there is an instructor on their back or by their side makes no difference to me.... Besides, its not a big deal, really, is it?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadySkyDIve 0 #3 June 25, 2003 No, just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #4 June 25, 2003 QuoteAs far as I'm concerned, a skydiver opens their own parachute, whether there is an instructor on their back or by their side makes no difference to me.... Hurrah! Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleBadger 0 #5 June 25, 2003 It would probably for one thing depend upon why they decided not to become a full on skydiver... More important I think that it would depend upon their attitude, do they take part in DZ life? try to make themselve part of the group? Are they as obsessed about jumping as everyone around them? I don't think that I'd make a conscious effort to class someone as a skydiver, but think that it would become a natural way of thinking about them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #6 June 25, 2003 A skydiver(in my world)Is a jumper that has started or has finished an education to a skydive licens. Jumping off a plane as a tandem,makes you an passenger... You aint a pilot just becours you are on the plane.. if so.. i would like to know were i could pick up my licens.. as most of my 550+fligths are from an cessna 182,so i should have hours enough Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #7 June 25, 2003 Quote Jumping off a plane as a tandem,makes you an passenger... What about those of us that have no choice?Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #8 June 25, 2003 I think if you have the courage to exit a plane with someone or on your own and enter freefall.... you are a skydiver. The point is to be free in the air and fly for that short amount of time. A jumper ie static liner is close but I think to be a skydiver you need to experience freefall, and a tandem in my book qualifies.... And Ripple.. I for one think you definitely qualify. You have overcome far more than most of us have had to to realize your dream. Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #9 June 25, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jumping off a plane as a tandem,makes you an passenger... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What about those of us that have no choice? Are you forced to do tandems(as passenger)? If so then no in my eyes your still a passenger. If you only are alowed to do tandems then its a thing that has been desided that you cant take care of yourself or migth has a problem that does that you migth cant at a given time. If you personaly chouse to only do tandems,then you say that you dont want that responsibility or dont think you can handel it,so you give that responserbility to the Tandem master. sorry its my defination on a skydiver,there are different oppinions about this Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #10 June 25, 2003 Quote Are you forced to do tandems(as passenger)? Yes. QuoteIf so then no in my eyes your still a passenger.What an incredibly insensitve thing to say. QuoteIf you only are alowed to do tandems then its a thing that has been desided that you cant take care of yourself or migth has a problem that does that you migth cant at a given time. that makes no sense whatsoever. QuoteIf you personaly chouse to only do tandems,then you say that you dont want that responsibility or dont think you can handel it,so you give that responserbility to the Tandem master. Eh? Quotesorry its my defination on a skydiver,there are different oppinions about this Edited by Skymama because of a personal attack.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #11 June 25, 2003 Quote And Ripple.. I for one think you definitely qualify. You have overcome far more than most of us have had to to realize your dream. AmazonThanks Amazon. I know that I can't (at the moment anyhoo) experience or 'do' what you guys do, but what you've said means a lot and I'm very grateful.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #12 June 25, 2003 I struggled with this question many times, since it was a year and a half since I did my tandem jumps and started AFF. I feel a person is a skydiver if they periodically go out and do a skydive whether it is via tandem or solo. After all, they are getting out of the plane putting themselves in the same risk. It's like a skiier in a way, there are those who ski daily and others who make a ski trip once a year. They're still skiiers. As for me, since I am only half way thru AFF I call myself a student skydiver. I most definitely am a skydiver, I've got the bruises to prove it. And in that short period I had to save my own butt on 2 occasions. Now it depends on how advanced of a skydiver I wish to become. Do I become that daily skier or that one weekend a year skiier? Getting back to the original question, doing a tandem once because you've always wanted to try it earns you the right to say "I did a skydive once." I think if you do a tandem whenever you can with no intention of doing AFF, you're still a skydiver. There are many reasons people choose to do just tandems. The bottom line...they love to jump out of a perfectly good airplane and dance in the sky. That's a skydiver. Sorry for the rambling, I'm still drinking my morning coffee. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #13 June 25, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you only are alowed to do tandems then its a thing that has been desided that you cant take care of yourself or migth has a problem that does that you migth cant at a given time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- that makes no sense whatsoever. If you use medicine or are fysical disabled so you cant take prober action in the right time. QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If a person personaly chouse to only do tandems,then he/she says that they dont want that responsibility or dont think they can handel it,so they give that responserbility to the Tandem master. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eh? If a person say i want to skydive but aint sure if they can handel this on their own,or dont want to. QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sorry its my defination on a skydiver,there are different oppinions about this -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And again, what an incredibly nasty, insensitive person you are As i said its only MY oppinion,which were asked after in this tread.If you are too sensible to read a weiv then dont read the tropics that you could be offenede in. Its nothing personal at all.Just my oppinion/defination on a skydiver.Live whith it,or forget it Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #14 June 25, 2003 You asked for for peoples opinion and you got it. Just because someone doesn't give you the opinion you were looking for it doesn't make them nasty or insensitive.---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluefingers 0 #15 June 25, 2003 Rip angel, i think you misunderstood Faber. I think what he's trying to say is that if you have the choice between skydiving on your own and taking responsibility for pulling that handle, or doing tandems only, and leaving the responsibility to the tandem master, and you choose to to tandems only, then you are not a skydiver. But if for some reason, you cannot do a skydive on your own, such as in your case for now, but you are still keen on the sport, and are doing tandems, then you are. I could be wrong, but that's the way I interpret it. Kerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #16 June 25, 2003 I'm afraid I understand very little of your post, due to your very poor English. But the gist of what you've posted is incredibly insensitive to those of us who have a spinal injury and cannot, therefore, participate as fully as they would wish in this sport. On another point you've raised: It's an open forum therefore I, and everyone else, has every right to expect posts to be non-offensive, especially when it comes to 'moral' subjects such as disability, ethnicity, religion, sex, etc. I should not be expected to avoid threads incase they contain offensive material. If that was the case, I wouldn't be able to read anything.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #17 June 25, 2003 QuoteYou asked for for peoples opinion and you got it. Just because someone doesn't give you the opinion you were looking for it doesn't make them nasty or insensitive. I did not ask for people's opinion. I merely requested that 'Faber' explain himself more fully. If someone makes a judgement about me because of my disability, ethnicity, sex, religion whatever, THAT is morally offensive and I have every right to be offended and to say I'm offended.Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluefingers 0 #18 June 25, 2003 Rip, wanna join me for a ciggie? Faber's Danish, give him a break ... how's your Danish? Kerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleBadger 0 #19 June 25, 2003 As Faber quite rightly said, this thread was setup to hear peoples personal opinions. I have been sat here watching these threads being posted and feel that a continued argument on the subject will only serve to getting people upset. Fabers' opinion is his own opinion, it is by no means a concensus amongst the skydiving community as a whole. I am sure that many other people have a similar opinion, but I am equally sure that you will also find a very large number of people who feel very differently. DISCLAIMER: This is my observation and opinion, whoever may disagree is quite a liberty to tell me in but I won't enter into an argument Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #20 June 25, 2003 Thanks amazone for the PM so i could get insigt about Ripples problem. Rippel,im sorry if i hurted your feelings,but i gave my defination as i were "asked"to.I can see your problem,however it dont change my mind. I could be wrongQuoteyes i think you were in my oppinion,sorry Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeTJumps 4 #21 June 25, 2003 I will consider anyone who voluntarily exits from an airplane, whether as a Tandem Passenger or as an individual carrying sport parachute equipment on their own back a skydiver. The person "dives" in the sky. Static Line, AFF, Tandem, Instructor Assisted Deployment....we all use the same media and basic equipment. Now the military may call them Parachutists but we all know the same feelings.Mike Turoff Instructor Examiner, USPA Co-author of Parachuting, The Skydiver's Handbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #22 June 25, 2003 That was really cool of you Faber.This proves that skydivers come in many shapes, sizes, forms, etc. But something we all have in common...WE LOVE IT! Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluefingers 0 #23 June 25, 2003 oky doky, my bad .... btw, my 'interpretation' above also happens to be my interpretation of a skydiver ... but extends to all students, whether AFF or S/L .... agree to disagree ... Kerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #24 June 25, 2003 QuoteI understand very little of your post, due to your very poor English im sorry for that. im aware that im not so good at english,and i some times get misunderstood or misunderstand things. Quotethe gist of what you've posted is incredibly insensitive to those of us who have a spinal injury and cannot, therefore, participate as fully as they would wish in this sport. As said before. im sorry about your problem,but as i said it were MY point of veiw,and the only way by my poor english i could explain this.Sorry for that. It's an open forum therefore I, and everyone else, has every right to expect posts to be non-offensiveQuote I dont think my post is offencive. I think you should read what you want and answer as you want,im not trying to kick you out or somthing similar. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #25 June 25, 2003 If the person wants to call themselves a skydiver and feels comfortable with it after only doing tandems then why shouldn't they? Is "skydiver" some kind of status symbol? Is it a badge? Or is it something you do because you enjoy it? Do you consider yourself "better" than non skydivers? You have a license that shows you can do it by yourself. A tandem passenger does not. USPA is not giving licenses for tandem jumps so your pilot comparison makes little sense. Is an Army Paratrooper a skydiver? They freefall for 3-4 seconds. If they have a malfunction they even deploy their own chute. Jumping from 800ft in a mass tac is considerably more dangerous than skydiving on the weekend. Are you better than them? IMO, if you willingly jump out of a plane for fun, you are a skydiver. Breaking everyone down into little groups does little to promote this sport, inspire new participants, or create a fun environment at the dropzone. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
