So. California folks -- Petition to Abolish Car Tax!!

[Gawain 0]

Sen. McClintock has enabled this latest petition, which, if certified will become a ballot measure to amend the State Constitution which will abolish the car tax ($0, Zero, nada, nothing, zip). It hasn't been determined yet if this will make the March 04 ballot.

KFI - AM640 is kicking off the campaign in Anaheim, at the Ayres Hotel, 2550 E. Katella Ave., Anaheim. It's right of State Rt 57 (link here: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/) and here's a map.

They are also setting up "drive-thrus" for those that can't stay for the other entertainment going on. They should have all SoCal counties represented (so, those that decide to trek from Santa Clara may as well go directly to the DZ... )...

The event starts at 3:00PM PST. Sign a petition!

[billvon 2,404]

>Sen. McClintock has enabled this latest petition, which, if certified will
> become a ballot measure to amend the State Constitution which will
> abolish the car tax ($0, Zero, nada, nothing, zip).

Boy, am I against that. People who use services should pay for them. People who use cars should pay the taxes to provide the money spent for roads, highway patrol, traffic controls etc. People who pollute should pay for the cleanup. People who use rescue services should pay for them (after the fact, of course.) Taxing everyone to pay for the drivers, polluters, and people who need rescuing is a bit too socialist for my taste.

Unless, of course, you believe that the state government prints money, and if you abolish one tax the money will not need to come from another tax.

[lawrocket 3]

You know, McClintock is my dawg. But I think he's taking this one a little too far.

Why not just have this tax repealed to the level it was before Governor Low-beams signed the executive order to triple it.

If he wanted to do something great, how about a petiton to eliminate "fee raises" via simple majority. Cali doesn't call them "taxes" anymore so they can get around a lot fo the Prop 13 business.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Viking 0]

isn't that why they doubled the car registration this year?

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Unless, of course, you believe that the state government prints money, and if you abolish one tax the money will not need to come from another tax.

Wait, the states don't print money? What am i supposed to do with all these Republic of Texas $20 bills that were given to me?

Damn, I've been foiled again.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mjosparky 3]

Last year I paid $132 to register my Harley. This year it is $310. Thats not paying for services used, thats piss poor money management.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,404]

>Last year I paid $132 to register my Harley. This year it is $310.
>Thats not paying for services used . . .

You did not operate your Harley on a road? If you kept it on dirt trails, then I'd agree the government has no right to tax you for that. If you operate it on a road, don't expect me to pay for the maintenance of that road so you can ride your bike.

[Clownburner 0]

While you're at it, why not require a 2/3rds majority vote of the state to create or raise any new taxes or fees?

The right way to pay for this sort of thing is a usage fee - but the car tax goes into the general fund which lets the state waste it as they see fit - and that's not cool. It also hits you based on the value of your car and not how much you use it, which is inequitable.

Make the car tax $0 - then pay for highway maintenace through a gasoline tax. That way, the people who want to drive gas-sucking giant trucks empty down the freeway at 100MPH can pay their fair share, and people who drive less, pay less. Simple, fair, easy.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

>Last year I paid $132 to register my Harley. This year it is $310.
>Thats not paying for services used . . .

You did not operate your Harley on a road? If you kept it on dirt trails, then I'd agree the government has no right to tax you for that. If you operate it on a road, don't expect me to pay for the maintenance of that road so you can ride your bike.[/reply


This clown went into office with a $10 billion surplus, Ca. now has a $30/40 billion defect. I would call that irresponsible. I did not ride my Harley 3 times more then the year before. They either fucked up charging me $132 in the first place or they are trying to pay for their fuckups by charging me $310 now. Either way it is piss poor management.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

• Quote

[quade 3]

Aside from all the other tax issues here, I believe this is a pretty "fair" way of doing things as well since the people that are willing to pay more for a more expensive car and therefore presumably more able to pay a higher fee, have a higher registration fee.

This hits the pocketbooks of the folks that bought $50,000 dollar gas guzzling Hummers a hell of a lot more than it does me in a paid off Saturn.

Now, let's look at why John and Ken might be so involved with this and their other claim to fame the SUV tax issue . . . lemme see . . . drive time talk show hosts in LA with major sponsorship from car dealers . . . hmmm . . .

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

>Last year I paid $132 to register my Harley. This year it is $310.
>Thats not paying for services used . . .

You did not operate your Harley on a road? If you kept it on dirt trails, then I'd agree the government has no right to tax you for that. If you operate it on a road, don't expect me to pay for the maintenance of that road so you can ride your bike.

As Cloudburner stated, this fee does not pay for road maintenance, it goes to cover other items in the state budget. It has nothing to do with how much I use the road. Gas tax in Ca is used to maintain roads. Increasing Vehicle reg. fees is just a quick fix for years of "piss poor money management".

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skybytch 259]

Quote

This hits the pocketbooks of the folks that bought $50,000 dollar gas guzzling Hummers a hell of a lot more than it does me in a paid off Saturn.

What about those folks who drive 20 year old pieces of shit because they can't afford a better car? Y'know, the ones who could barely afford the $36 registration fee... Now they'll be paying $100+? That is, if they can come up with it.

Nice. More economic discrimination. Another reason I'm glad I'm in Florida now.

[TaeKwonDoDo 0]

Boy - I try not to get into the political threads (never mix friends with politics and/or religion) but this one really gets me.

I pay STATE taxes - a shitload of them. And now they didn't DOUBLE the license TAX (it's not a FEE) on the cars, they TRIPLED IT.

Specific example, I have a 1993 Ford Ranger with ~180K miles on it. It's not worth more than $1000.

My "Vehicle tax" went from about $45 last year to over $120 - for a piece of shit vehicle (that's a tax of about 10% of the vehicle's value, taxed on a yearly basis). I'm OK with a $30 car tax - but this is ridiculous.

And, as far as Taxes go, we ALREADY pay taxes in the top 10% of ALL States.

Sales Tax = ~8.5%
Property Tax is higher than I've paid anywhere (Double per home-size that I paid in Illinois)
State Income Tax is almost 10%

So - Let's see:
I'm in one of the HIGHEST taxed states in the US that...
a) Has a deficit larger than all other 49 states COMBINED
b) Has schools that rank in the LAST 10% nationwide, and
c) the WORST roads I've ever driven on.

Socialism isn't working in this state - Its leading to a huge state government that misspends like crazy and is intent on driving businesses and jobs out and leaving the poor behind (once the guy that buys the dinner decides to no longer show up... how do we pay for the meal for the people who can't?)

If they can't spend MY money* well - WHY IN THE HELL would I support giving these fucking idiots even more of MY MONEY to mismanage?!?!?!

*(yes, it is MY money, not the state's. I'm the one who works the 40 to sometimes 60hrs + a week away from time I could be spending with my wife and kids... or skydiving)

Why don't I get out and leave the idiocy to continue without me? Well, I love my home, my friends and the beauty of my state... But I do ask myself this every single day - why do I stay?

Where do I sign?

Getting down off the soapbox now... Ducking, and putting on the asbestos suit .

- Jeff

"That's not flying, it's falling with style."

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Aside from all the other tax issues here, I believe this is a pretty "fair" way of doing things as well since the people that are willing to pay more for a more expensive car and therefore presumably more able to pay a higher fee, have a higher registration fee.

This hits the pocketbooks of the folks that bought $50,000 dollar gas guzzling Hummers a hell of a lot more than it does me in a paid off Saturn.

Now, let's look at why John and Ken might be so involved with this and their other claim to fame the SUV tax issue . . . lemme see . . . drive time talk show hosts in LA with major sponsorship from car dealers . . . hmmm . . .

My Harley is also paid for and I didn't pay $50,000 for it. Taxation according to the ability to pay it the way they used to do in Iron curtain countries, am I right. Any way you look at it, this is a fee to balance a budget that was allowed to run wild.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Michele 1]

Quote

Last year I paid $132 to register my Harley. This year it is $310.
>Thats not paying for services used . . .

You did not operate your Harley on a road?

I think the point Sparky was making was that the tax doubled...and it is doubtful that his use of his Harley doubled, and it is equally doubtful the value of his Harley doubled. Therefore, the taxes getting doubled/trebled has nothing to do with the use/value of the Harley, but rather a quick, easy way to yank more dollars from the motoring public. I know for certain that while my use of my car has NOT doubled, and the value has definitely NOT doubled (rather, it has lost value, but that's another story), my registration fees have more than doubled.

Further, I sincerely doubt that the repairs/upgrades of the road system here has doubled.

Just curious - does anyone know if the fares for busses and metro services/trains have doubled?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[TaeKwonDoDo 0]

Quote

While you're at it, why not require a 2/3rds majority vote of the state to create or raise any new taxes or fees?

The right way to pay for this sort of thing is a usage fee - but the car tax goes into the general fund which lets the state waste it as they see fit - and that's not cool. It also hits you based on the value of your car and not how much you use it, which is inequitable.

Make the car tax $0 - then pay for highway maintenace through a gasoline tax. That way, the people who want to drive gas-sucking giant trucks empty down the freeway at 100MPH can pay their fair share, and people who drive less, pay less. Simple, fair, easy.

Dude - you are MY FRIEND! Well said, the whole post.

- Jeff

"That's not flying, it's falling with style."

[billvon 2,404]

>This clown went into office with a $10 billion surplus, Ca. now has a
>$30/40 billion defect. I would call that irresponsible.

The country's budget had a surplus of over 100 billion when Bush went into office; now we have a $500 billion deficit. Almost every other state has a similar problem. Either everyone in government is irresponsible - or the economy has more to do with deficits than presidents and governors.

>I did not ride my Harley 3 times more then the year before. They
> either fucked up charging me $132 in the first place . . .

Yep. At least they're fixing the problems.

[Michele 1]

Quote

Yep. At least they're fixing the problems.

"Higher taxes" are fixing the state's problems?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

>This clown went into office with a $10 billion surplus, Ca. now has a
>$30/40 billion defect. I would call that irresponsible.

The country's budget had a surplus of over 100 billion when Bush went into office; now we have a $500 billion deficit. Almost every other state has a similar problem. Either everyone in government is irresponsible - or the economy has more to do with deficits than presidents and governors.

>I did not ride my Harley 3 times more then the year before. They
> either fucked up charging me $132 in the first place . . .

Yep. At least they're fixing the problems.

I was not talking about what Bush did, I was talking about paying triple to register a vehicle in Ca. If they are fixing problems they are doing at the expense of the tax payer who had noting to do with creating the problems. You seem to be content paying outrageous taxes and fees but I'm not. I have no idea what the solution is, but I am sure defending the irresponsible actions of our elected officials is not part of it.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Therefore, the taxes getting doubled/trebled has nothing to do with the use/value of the Harley, but rather a quick, easy way to yank more dollars from the motoring public

Michele:

That's a helluva great point. Short, simple, and powerful

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 3]

Quote

Any way you look at it, this is a fee to balance a budget that was allowed to run wild.

TRUE!

But at the end of the day you still have to pay the bills one way or another.

If people are successful at doing away with vehicle registration fees, which I doubt they will be, then the money will simply have to come from somewhere else.

My point is that this seems like a pretty fair way of doing it.

How many years have we been talking about a flat tax in one form or another or a sales tax in one form or another so that things would be more fair and there would be fewer loopholes for the fat cats?

Well, if you want to look at this as a tax, then this IS a flat tax and provides no loopholes for the wealthy.

Seems pretty fair to me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,404]

>I think the point Sparky was making was that the tax doubled...and
> it is doubtful that his use of his Harley doubled, and it is equally
> doubtful the value of his Harley doubled.

Right, it is a change in the tax structure. A lot of people think that if they pass a law to reduce vehicle taxes that their overall taxes go down - after all, less tax is less tax, right? In fact, the tax that everyone pays is determined (at least in states) by how much the government spends. We WILL pay for that one way or the other. The question is not - how do we avoid paying for what the state spends? We can't do that, any more than we can lobby our mortgage company to reduce the amount we owe them. The question is - how do we best distribute the taxes?

In my book, charging the users of roads (via registration and gas taxes) for those roads is fairer than charging everyone for the use of the roads.

[billvon 2,404]

> If they are fixing problems they are doing at the expense of the tax
>payer who had noting to do with creating the problems.

The economy caused the problems. You WILL pay for every cent the government spends one way or another; the only question is how to do that fairly. Increase income taxes to cover your use of the roads? I think that's a bad idea.

[billvon 2,404]

>"Higher taxes" are fixing the state's problems?

Increasing tax revenues will fix the state's budget problems. There are a lot more problems overall than that, of course.

[lawrocket 3]

Five years ago, I was operating at a deficit due to student loans.

The economy crashed. I graduated from law school. I found a job. I now operate within a budget that pays off my debts, despite this terrible economy.

Somehow, the American people as a whole operate within constraints of a budget, except those in bankruptcy.

But I'd go so far as to say that economy has very little to do with balancing a budget. I make hard choices to balance mine, like no skydiving for six months, not going out to dinner very often, and generally trimming all the fat. This is like the normal citizen.

But somehow the governments don't want to act that way. You'd thik a government of the people, by the people and for the people would act like the people. Instead, they rake the people.

It's an easier choice to tax the hell out of people. It's a harder choice to quit spending so much money. People make that choice all the time. Why can't the gubment?

My wife is hotter than your wife.