Jib 0 #26 October 10, 2003 I'm reminded of Monty Python's The Meaning of Life: "every sperm is sacred..." to "the fastest growing religion in the world." -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #27 October 10, 2003 QuoteHowever, extrapolating a hatred and disdain for the Church as a whole due to disagreement with some of its doctrine reeks of stupidity, obstinacy, and ignorance. The Church has done more good for more people throughout history than any single organization I can think of, and I'm a pretty well read son-of-a-bitch. I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole and I recommend everyone else don't either. It'll just degenerate into name calling. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #28 October 10, 2003 I attack arguments - not people. Here in the forums at any rate.Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #29 October 10, 2003 Anvil, I found your post simple wonderful and well said. And I won't bother to try and argue against all of those on this thread who hate the Church that I love so dearly. All I can say is that it makes me sad that She is so profoundly misunderstood. And to the post about rape being better than contraceptive sex b/c at least it's natural??? OMGosh!!!! THAT person does NOT speak for Rome, for the Pope, for me, for the Church, for anyone but himself. What an ignorant person you heard and I'm glad you tuned him out... it's just a shame it might have tuned you out completely to what is the real teaching on NFP vs. contraception. It's really a very beautiful philosophy of sex, the Church's teaching is. People just can't see beyond what appears to be "the obvious" to them... that b/c it involves anything other than a free for all that it MUST be therefore very oppressive. Sorry y'all that this thread has stirred up such negative feelings in so many. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #30 October 10, 2003 But he never explained how using natural family planning to avoid the primary Church-sanctioned purpose for sex was any different than using another method to avoid the primary Church-sanctioned purpose for sex. *** That is a very good point. The difference b/t NFP and contraceptive sex is very simple. In contraception, one or both of the parties are actively doing something to disrupt a natural process that may or may not result in fertilization. In NFP, when the couple has determine that the female is fertile and if the couple wishes to avoid pregnancy during that cycle, the couple abstains from sex during the fertile period. NOT acting when wanting to avoid pregnancy is not the same as deliberately doing something to disrupt the act. I don't understand why that is a difficult concept for some to grasp (that is not directed to you, my friend) One other thing... the Church DOES NOT teach that the primary (read ONLY) purpose of sex is baby making. What it does teach is that there are TWO ends to the sexual act, bonding and babies, and the two are inseperable. To try to seperate them does violence to the act and renders it an absurdity. That does NOT mean that every sexual act MUST end in pregnancy!!!!! After all, the desire in the female to unite to her husband perdures even when she is NOT in estrous!!! But even in those times when fertilization is unlikely, sex using NFP is OPEN to new life, even if it is unlikely to occur in the non-fertile period. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #31 October 10, 2003 I didn't mean to imply that you did. I just made an observation that was perhaps too brief. We had this argument in the forums before, arguing will not change anyone's mind, and it leads almost invariably to locks and deletions. I don't agree with you, but I don't think this is worth another forum disruption. The death of Dwain has gotten enough people on edge already, I think. Cheers. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #32 October 10, 2003 Oh. Death of Paul Cousins too. I think that's why I've been posting so often on here as of late. Nothing gets my mind off of it. Disagree or not. I hold no grudges. From dz.com at anyrate. People here that disagree with me are some of my favorite dz.com'ers. Billvon and wmw999 and skydekker are the first three that come to mind.Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #33 October 10, 2003 QuoteSorry y'all that this thread has stirred up such negative feelings in so many. You all know I'm not a Catholic...matter of fact, I was raised with a Jewish father and an Episcopal mother. My father now practices Siddartha Yoga as well as still participates in High Holy Days within the Jewish faith, and my mother is a heathen. LOL! Actually, she has a strong faith, but is not religious. And some of you know my brother is a born again, youth ministering kinda guy. I've done my own studies, and made sure I was exposed to a great deal of different religions and different parts of the same religions. And it's been very eye-opening. I find the Catholic Church to be no less harmful than some other ideological institutions, and they have some very interesting positions on some things. Do I agree with them? not necessarily. Do I agree with the vilification of it? No. Like with anything, it has good parts, wonderful parts, and bad parts. It has a rich history - regardless of your position of it being "right" or "wrong". Some of the saints have some really intruiging stories...if you really think about it, there have been saints from all walks of life, all parts of the theology, and all aspects of the world. How interesting is that?? While the Church has seen and done some dark things, there is no religion that has not. Is there corruption in the Church? Sure. There was corruption in lots of churches, though, not simply the Catholic one. Take Jim Baker. Or whatever that other guy's name was that God spoke to him over breakfast. There are a few Rabbis that promulgate horrible behavior; and there are many more examples of bad things along those lines. But like Vinny said, there is also a great deal of good the Church has done - as lots of churches have. my experience with the Church has been really nice and good. I have read a great deal, not believed what was told to me by one part or another, but researched and thought about and came to my own conclusions. It does sadden me that there is commentary that, if you swapped the words "catholic" with the word "jew", would be considered anti semite; or "towel-head" would then be considered anti-islam. And this is from some people who've railed loudly against others here on these boards for being anti-something or other. It just shows me that we all have our prejudices, we all have our personal bigotries...and reminds me to not cast stones if I choose to live in a glass house... Just my .02 late at night... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #34 October 10, 2003 Ok, want to know the official church teaching on the Regulation of Birth? Then please read the official documentation: http://www.newadvent.org/docs/pa06hv.htm You can find the majority of the major issues that people have misunderstood about the church right here:http://www.newadvent.org/docs/ Have I read all of them? No. Have I been taught or read parts of a lot them over eight years in the seminary? For the most part, yes. However, that is in my past (I left the seminary in 95). I usually need to refer back to these documents as a reminder. Do I hate the church? Hate is a strong word, and honestly...thats my business and not yours. I've seen more of the church from the inside out than probably the majority of the people on this board. Add to that church services everyday for four years, morning prayer everyday and night, seminars, lectures, twice a week vocational studies, theology classes five times a week for eight years, three summers living in parishes, one summer in Ireland working at a church....and a whole lot more. I know what I like, I know what I dislike and it would take a few years worth of explaining to make you understand how and why I feel the way I do. Do I still believe? Yes, in something - but you would probably have to live my life to understand fully what is in my heart and soul. Is there good to organized religion? Yes. Is there bad to organized religion? Yes. Is there a good balance of both in the Catholic Church - from what I saw, maybe - it depends on the day of the week. St. Francis made some changes in the church in another time....another man named Luther tried as well and caused a schism. Could I have stayed and made a change? I doubt it. The church is a global body, and each country has it's own interpretation (most people have a very myopic view of "the church" to what they see in their backyard) - and this Pope became a world traveler to try to fix that. I'm not sure the church has gotten any better since 1979. Again, there is both good and bad - and I have plenty examples of both. However, the church gave up on me when priests in high-up positions refused to help me with many of my questions, therefore I gave up on them (this was not the only reason). Do I further bashing of the church? No, just as I don't of any other religion. I suggest this book for those that feel they should be allowed to: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195154800/qid=1065762146/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-8146380-3951337?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice by Philip Jenkins Sinker and Anvil - I applaude you in your convictions, esp in these days when it is social wrong to be Catholic. However - do not refer to the Church as "She" or as some sort of living entity. That can lead to pride and vanity. Your faith should not be defined by the brick building you visit once a week, or the people you see there. It should have no boundaries, and attacks against it should not cause you to faulter or get angry. Expand the horizons of your belief......_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #35 October 10, 2003 QuoteQuote*** People aren't giving up on religion, just specific monolythic churches. This is the good part. In America this is a trend in the Northern States...not as much in the South. From my undersanding, the majority of Europe still has a very strong following in the Catholic Church. its very strong in the south actually churchs are realigning to attract worshipers but its mostly the older generations moving to which ever has the best, newest, most expensive buildings as if that brings them closer to god.....gen X has long since given up on most of the archaic religious dogma and the institutions it supports____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkR 0 #36 October 10, 2003 Quotewell hello zen... no surprise to find you here... Quote how can they possibly be wrong?? after all dont they get the truth right from god??? although you're sarcastic, you're not incorrect... such truth did come from God... snear if you will... Just want to add that it was the church which prayed that the earth was flat and let Galileo be tortured and held prison for the last 8 years of his life for being a heretic. Can't help asking myself if the line to God was broken back then...»Somewhere between the lies and truths borderlines get shady. Somewhere between the yesses and nos you can find the maybe.« Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #37 October 10, 2003 QuoteQuotewell hello zen... no surprise to find you here... Quote how can they possibly be wrong?? after all dont they get the truth right from god??? although you're sarcastic, you're not incorrect... such truth did come from God... snear if you will... Just want to add that it was the church which prayed that the earth was flat and let Galileo be tortured and held prison for the last 8 years of his life for being a heretic. Can't help asking myself if the line to God was broken back then... and of course no one expects the spanish inqusition!!!! auto de fe any one?? sorry to drunk to spell correctly tonight...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pa2themd 0 #38 October 10, 2003 QuoteWow. I can't believe the Catholic Church has gone so low as to say this. This goes right up there with Nelson Mandela saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Hi just to set the record straight, it was Thabo Mbeki who said that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, not Nelson Mandela "Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #39 October 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteWow. I can't believe the Catholic Church has gone so low as to say this. This goes right up there with Nelson Mandela saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Hi just to set the record straight, it was Thabo Mbeki who said that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, not Nelson Mandela Wow, I really goofed that one up. Thanks for the correction. Yea, it was Thabo that called for dissidence and support the idea that poverty was the leading cause._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites D22369 0 #40 October 10, 2003 Quotehow can they possibly be wrong?? after all dont they get the truth right from god??? HAHAHA...........damned right LOL.......doesnt matter the name of the church, they are all a bit too fanatical for me.... RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #41 October 10, 2003 Sorry dude. Pushed send too soon. You hit a soft spot. Apologies. QuoteWow. I can't believe the Catholic Church has gone so low as to say this. This goes right up there with Nelson Mandela saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Nelson Mandela said no such thing. Edited to remove personal attack and apologise.Thabo Mbeki, South Africa's CURRENT president said HIV does not cause AIDS, NOT Nelson Mandela. He said this less than a week ago. We dare not succumb - Mandela Still a bummer about the Catholics though... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vonSanta 0 #42 October 10, 2003 Heh good old Danish Lutherans church is cooler. I mean, we have a priest here who publicly stated he does not believe in God. He's still allowed to serve the community though. There might indeed be a deity. or deities. I dunno. If there is then it/they are probably dismayed at how people have misconstrued it/their will(s). Or they have a helluva sense of humour. I'm hoping for the latter. It'd make a possible afterlife so much sweeter. Think I could get along with it/them if that was the case. God is a freeflier. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #43 October 10, 2003 Lot of strong religious views here. Don't want to get involved with an argument about catholic dogma here, (or any other religion) my only point to raise here is that the Catholic Church is trying to impose its religion on other people. If Catholics believe condoms are bad in their religion, so be it. Who am I to argue with what is right or wrong in their religion. Its not my religion – I have no say in what is right or wrong that is the sole preserve of the Catholic God. My only issue is that this is exactly what the Catholic Church is trying to do. It is trying to tell people of other religions what is right or wrong. How can the Catholic Church do this? What gives it the right to meddle in what another religion does? The FAA does not control what I do when I’m jumping in England – I am bound by CAA regulations. If you’re a Catholic, fine, believe your going to hell for using a Condom – that’s every Catholic’s religious prerogative. I’m not a Catholic, why should I be told I’m off to hell if I wear a condom? I’m damn sure the Pope would be pissed if an Iatolla came round his place and told him that the Qur'an tells us all that men should not wear gold jewellery so he’s off to Muslim Hell for eternity. Vive La Difference and leave each other alone – everyone be happy:http://www.wordsofwit.com/article1016.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #44 October 10, 2003 QuoteFrom my undersanding, the majority of Europe still has a very strong following in the Catholic Church. mmmm.... not sure at all about that. England /Scotland / Wales: not at all... Ireland : yes France: Not at all Germany: not really Spain: yes Italy: yes Greece: yes and no So really, if you look at the largest countries in Europe, I wounldnt call it a majority.....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #45 October 10, 2003 Dude, I was raised a Catholic, and I had to put up with this BS from everyone in that church my whole life. (needless to say, once i became old enough to get a clue I left that awful place) Anyway, that's the way Catholics are taught. The idea of "We're right, you're wrong, end of story." was pushed on everyone. Perfect example, the priest at my old church used to go on and on about how the jews were wrong in their beliefs, and once even said that they'd be punished for it!! The funny part of all this? Who is it the Catholics live for, base their lives around, and plan to meet in heaven? Yup, that would be Jesus. But tell me this, what religion was Jesus himself? Yes, he was a JEW. I'm telling you, my honest opinion, christians just don't have the right idea, and hardcore ones like those who wrote this thing on condoms spend way too much of their time whining about society today. All we hear from them is there's too much sex, Britney Spears is a bad role model, and gays go to hell. The best part is while all of this is going on, their priests are molesting little boys before they go out to tell their followers how badly the world has sinned. Damn, these people need to get a life, stop bitching about the rest of the world, and save themselves before they even TRY to save anyone else. Just my $.99 super value meal Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #46 October 10, 2003 A couple of stats for you about religion on the UK: The church attendance figures in England, Scotland and Wales are around 5%. A full quater of Londoners state that they have "no religion". 55% of British public do not believe in a higher being I remember it being in the press a month ago or so, that less than 20% of the population considered themself to be a "practicing christian". Only 48% of people in the UK claim to belong to a religion at all. The above figures relate to all christian based religions, not just Catholicism. Catholics make up 14.4% of christians in the UK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #47 October 10, 2003 WrongWay, You are in a class with many other "angry" Catholics in this country....but, not all priests are in the category as you speak. There certainly were a large group of the older generation of priests that spewed plenty of venom then went and sinned. I believe part of that comes from the fact they needed to agree they were going to be priests at age 13 as they entered High School. Geez. It took me eight years of schooling to realize it wasn't for me, plus at 13 I had no idea what plans I had for the rest of my life. Thankfully, the system has changed now.... There are some very good priests out there that do serve the community and do good. I know a bunch of them, and a lot were friends of mine in school. Please be careful on your generalizations._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #48 October 10, 2003 Sorry, guess I went out on a rant there. Yes, you're right, I'm sure there are many, many priests who are good and just in what they do. I'm just saying two things. The first is that these people making these claims have more important things to worry about within their own church, and the ones that don't still have more important things to worry about elsewhere, and should be doing important things, like missionary work. I feel that they need to be spending more time helping those who need it, and bringing those people to faith, instead of judging those they don't agree with. The second is, the reason I went on the rant is simply because, in my experience, the church stole my own faith. In setting the bad examples and shunning those who wouldn't accept their religion, intead of embracing them as they should have, they pushed me away, and stole my respect. I'm sure there are others out there like me, whose bad experience with church pushed them away from it, and I'm simply saying this could be one of the many causes of society's downfall, and the reason that churches around the world should be more aware of what they do, and how "average joe non-churchgoers" will take it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #49 October 10, 2003 Quoteand should be doing important things, like missionary work. I feel that they need to be spending more time helping those who need it, and bringing those people to faith, instead of judging those they don't agree with. I live in Africa. I don't need to be brought to faith any more than you need an early morning visit from the Jehova Witnesses while packing for the DZ. I like Jews. And Buddhists. And Muslims. They don't try and sell you their religeon with a veiled threat of eternal damnation. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #50 October 10, 2003 Quote and bringing those people to faith This is one of my main gripes with organised religion... it recrutes... Would a catholic find it offensive if a jew told them they were following a heathan way and as such would be condemned to eternal damnation? Why is it any less offensive if its an athiest being spoken to be a catholic? (read any of the religions into the above statemt - it is not intended to single any one religion out from the rest.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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ChasingBlueSky 0 #39 October 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteWow. I can't believe the Catholic Church has gone so low as to say this. This goes right up there with Nelson Mandela saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Hi just to set the record straight, it was Thabo Mbeki who said that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, not Nelson Mandela Wow, I really goofed that one up. Thanks for the correction. Yea, it was Thabo that called for dissidence and support the idea that poverty was the leading cause._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites D22369 0 #40 October 10, 2003 Quotehow can they possibly be wrong?? after all dont they get the truth right from god??? HAHAHA...........damned right LOL.......doesnt matter the name of the church, they are all a bit too fanatical for me.... RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #41 October 10, 2003 Sorry dude. Pushed send too soon. You hit a soft spot. Apologies. QuoteWow. I can't believe the Catholic Church has gone so low as to say this. This goes right up there with Nelson Mandela saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Nelson Mandela said no such thing. Edited to remove personal attack and apologise.Thabo Mbeki, South Africa's CURRENT president said HIV does not cause AIDS, NOT Nelson Mandela. He said this less than a week ago. We dare not succumb - Mandela Still a bummer about the Catholics though... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vonSanta 0 #42 October 10, 2003 Heh good old Danish Lutherans church is cooler. I mean, we have a priest here who publicly stated he does not believe in God. He's still allowed to serve the community though. There might indeed be a deity. or deities. I dunno. If there is then it/they are probably dismayed at how people have misconstrued it/their will(s). Or they have a helluva sense of humour. I'm hoping for the latter. It'd make a possible afterlife so much sweeter. Think I could get along with it/them if that was the case. God is a freeflier. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #43 October 10, 2003 Lot of strong religious views here. Don't want to get involved with an argument about catholic dogma here, (or any other religion) my only point to raise here is that the Catholic Church is trying to impose its religion on other people. If Catholics believe condoms are bad in their religion, so be it. Who am I to argue with what is right or wrong in their religion. Its not my religion – I have no say in what is right or wrong that is the sole preserve of the Catholic God. My only issue is that this is exactly what the Catholic Church is trying to do. It is trying to tell people of other religions what is right or wrong. How can the Catholic Church do this? What gives it the right to meddle in what another religion does? The FAA does not control what I do when I’m jumping in England – I am bound by CAA regulations. If you’re a Catholic, fine, believe your going to hell for using a Condom – that’s every Catholic’s religious prerogative. I’m not a Catholic, why should I be told I’m off to hell if I wear a condom? I’m damn sure the Pope would be pissed if an Iatolla came round his place and told him that the Qur'an tells us all that men should not wear gold jewellery so he’s off to Muslim Hell for eternity. Vive La Difference and leave each other alone – everyone be happy:http://www.wordsofwit.com/article1016.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #44 October 10, 2003 QuoteFrom my undersanding, the majority of Europe still has a very strong following in the Catholic Church. mmmm.... not sure at all about that. England /Scotland / Wales: not at all... Ireland : yes France: Not at all Germany: not really Spain: yes Italy: yes Greece: yes and no So really, if you look at the largest countries in Europe, I wounldnt call it a majority.....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #45 October 10, 2003 Dude, I was raised a Catholic, and I had to put up with this BS from everyone in that church my whole life. (needless to say, once i became old enough to get a clue I left that awful place) Anyway, that's the way Catholics are taught. The idea of "We're right, you're wrong, end of story." was pushed on everyone. Perfect example, the priest at my old church used to go on and on about how the jews were wrong in their beliefs, and once even said that they'd be punished for it!! The funny part of all this? Who is it the Catholics live for, base their lives around, and plan to meet in heaven? Yup, that would be Jesus. But tell me this, what religion was Jesus himself? Yes, he was a JEW. I'm telling you, my honest opinion, christians just don't have the right idea, and hardcore ones like those who wrote this thing on condoms spend way too much of their time whining about society today. All we hear from them is there's too much sex, Britney Spears is a bad role model, and gays go to hell. The best part is while all of this is going on, their priests are molesting little boys before they go out to tell their followers how badly the world has sinned. Damn, these people need to get a life, stop bitching about the rest of the world, and save themselves before they even TRY to save anyone else. Just my $.99 super value meal Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #46 October 10, 2003 A couple of stats for you about religion on the UK: The church attendance figures in England, Scotland and Wales are around 5%. A full quater of Londoners state that they have "no religion". 55% of British public do not believe in a higher being I remember it being in the press a month ago or so, that less than 20% of the population considered themself to be a "practicing christian". Only 48% of people in the UK claim to belong to a religion at all. The above figures relate to all christian based religions, not just Catholicism. Catholics make up 14.4% of christians in the UK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #47 October 10, 2003 WrongWay, You are in a class with many other "angry" Catholics in this country....but, not all priests are in the category as you speak. There certainly were a large group of the older generation of priests that spewed plenty of venom then went and sinned. I believe part of that comes from the fact they needed to agree they were going to be priests at age 13 as they entered High School. Geez. It took me eight years of schooling to realize it wasn't for me, plus at 13 I had no idea what plans I had for the rest of my life. Thankfully, the system has changed now.... There are some very good priests out there that do serve the community and do good. I know a bunch of them, and a lot were friends of mine in school. Please be careful on your generalizations._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #48 October 10, 2003 Sorry, guess I went out on a rant there. Yes, you're right, I'm sure there are many, many priests who are good and just in what they do. I'm just saying two things. The first is that these people making these claims have more important things to worry about within their own church, and the ones that don't still have more important things to worry about elsewhere, and should be doing important things, like missionary work. I feel that they need to be spending more time helping those who need it, and bringing those people to faith, instead of judging those they don't agree with. The second is, the reason I went on the rant is simply because, in my experience, the church stole my own faith. In setting the bad examples and shunning those who wouldn't accept their religion, intead of embracing them as they should have, they pushed me away, and stole my respect. I'm sure there are others out there like me, whose bad experience with church pushed them away from it, and I'm simply saying this could be one of the many causes of society's downfall, and the reason that churches around the world should be more aware of what they do, and how "average joe non-churchgoers" will take it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #49 October 10, 2003 Quoteand should be doing important things, like missionary work. I feel that they need to be spending more time helping those who need it, and bringing those people to faith, instead of judging those they don't agree with. I live in Africa. I don't need to be brought to faith any more than you need an early morning visit from the Jehova Witnesses while packing for the DZ. I like Jews. And Buddhists. And Muslims. They don't try and sell you their religeon with a veiled threat of eternal damnation. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #50 October 10, 2003 Quote and bringing those people to faith This is one of my main gripes with organised religion... it recrutes... Would a catholic find it offensive if a jew told them they were following a heathan way and as such would be condemned to eternal damnation? Why is it any less offensive if its an athiest being spoken to be a catholic? (read any of the religions into the above statemt - it is not intended to single any one religion out from the rest.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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D22369 0 #40 October 10, 2003 Quotehow can they possibly be wrong?? after all dont they get the truth right from god??? HAHAHA...........damned right LOL.......doesnt matter the name of the church, they are all a bit too fanatical for me.... RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #41 October 10, 2003 Sorry dude. Pushed send too soon. You hit a soft spot. Apologies. QuoteWow. I can't believe the Catholic Church has gone so low as to say this. This goes right up there with Nelson Mandela saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Nelson Mandela said no such thing. Edited to remove personal attack and apologise.Thabo Mbeki, South Africa's CURRENT president said HIV does not cause AIDS, NOT Nelson Mandela. He said this less than a week ago. We dare not succumb - Mandela Still a bummer about the Catholics though... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #42 October 10, 2003 Heh good old Danish Lutherans church is cooler. I mean, we have a priest here who publicly stated he does not believe in God. He's still allowed to serve the community though. There might indeed be a deity. or deities. I dunno. If there is then it/they are probably dismayed at how people have misconstrued it/their will(s). Or they have a helluva sense of humour. I'm hoping for the latter. It'd make a possible afterlife so much sweeter. Think I could get along with it/them if that was the case. God is a freeflier. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #43 October 10, 2003 Lot of strong religious views here. Don't want to get involved with an argument about catholic dogma here, (or any other religion) my only point to raise here is that the Catholic Church is trying to impose its religion on other people. If Catholics believe condoms are bad in their religion, so be it. Who am I to argue with what is right or wrong in their religion. Its not my religion – I have no say in what is right or wrong that is the sole preserve of the Catholic God. My only issue is that this is exactly what the Catholic Church is trying to do. It is trying to tell people of other religions what is right or wrong. How can the Catholic Church do this? What gives it the right to meddle in what another religion does? The FAA does not control what I do when I’m jumping in England – I am bound by CAA regulations. If you’re a Catholic, fine, believe your going to hell for using a Condom – that’s every Catholic’s religious prerogative. I’m not a Catholic, why should I be told I’m off to hell if I wear a condom? I’m damn sure the Pope would be pissed if an Iatolla came round his place and told him that the Qur'an tells us all that men should not wear gold jewellery so he’s off to Muslim Hell for eternity. Vive La Difference and leave each other alone – everyone be happy:http://www.wordsofwit.com/article1016.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #44 October 10, 2003 QuoteFrom my undersanding, the majority of Europe still has a very strong following in the Catholic Church. mmmm.... not sure at all about that. England /Scotland / Wales: not at all... Ireland : yes France: Not at all Germany: not really Spain: yes Italy: yes Greece: yes and no So really, if you look at the largest countries in Europe, I wounldnt call it a majority.....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #45 October 10, 2003 Dude, I was raised a Catholic, and I had to put up with this BS from everyone in that church my whole life. (needless to say, once i became old enough to get a clue I left that awful place) Anyway, that's the way Catholics are taught. The idea of "We're right, you're wrong, end of story." was pushed on everyone. Perfect example, the priest at my old church used to go on and on about how the jews were wrong in their beliefs, and once even said that they'd be punished for it!! The funny part of all this? Who is it the Catholics live for, base their lives around, and plan to meet in heaven? Yup, that would be Jesus. But tell me this, what religion was Jesus himself? Yes, he was a JEW. I'm telling you, my honest opinion, christians just don't have the right idea, and hardcore ones like those who wrote this thing on condoms spend way too much of their time whining about society today. All we hear from them is there's too much sex, Britney Spears is a bad role model, and gays go to hell. The best part is while all of this is going on, their priests are molesting little boys before they go out to tell their followers how badly the world has sinned. Damn, these people need to get a life, stop bitching about the rest of the world, and save themselves before they even TRY to save anyone else. Just my $.99 super value meal Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #46 October 10, 2003 A couple of stats for you about religion on the UK: The church attendance figures in England, Scotland and Wales are around 5%. A full quater of Londoners state that they have "no religion". 55% of British public do not believe in a higher being I remember it being in the press a month ago or so, that less than 20% of the population considered themself to be a "practicing christian". Only 48% of people in the UK claim to belong to a religion at all. The above figures relate to all christian based religions, not just Catholicism. Catholics make up 14.4% of christians in the UK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #47 October 10, 2003 WrongWay, You are in a class with many other "angry" Catholics in this country....but, not all priests are in the category as you speak. There certainly were a large group of the older generation of priests that spewed plenty of venom then went and sinned. I believe part of that comes from the fact they needed to agree they were going to be priests at age 13 as they entered High School. Geez. It took me eight years of schooling to realize it wasn't for me, plus at 13 I had no idea what plans I had for the rest of my life. Thankfully, the system has changed now.... There are some very good priests out there that do serve the community and do good. I know a bunch of them, and a lot were friends of mine in school. Please be careful on your generalizations._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #48 October 10, 2003 Sorry, guess I went out on a rant there. Yes, you're right, I'm sure there are many, many priests who are good and just in what they do. I'm just saying two things. The first is that these people making these claims have more important things to worry about within their own church, and the ones that don't still have more important things to worry about elsewhere, and should be doing important things, like missionary work. I feel that they need to be spending more time helping those who need it, and bringing those people to faith, instead of judging those they don't agree with. The second is, the reason I went on the rant is simply because, in my experience, the church stole my own faith. In setting the bad examples and shunning those who wouldn't accept their religion, intead of embracing them as they should have, they pushed me away, and stole my respect. I'm sure there are others out there like me, whose bad experience with church pushed them away from it, and I'm simply saying this could be one of the many causes of society's downfall, and the reason that churches around the world should be more aware of what they do, and how "average joe non-churchgoers" will take it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #49 October 10, 2003 Quoteand should be doing important things, like missionary work. I feel that they need to be spending more time helping those who need it, and bringing those people to faith, instead of judging those they don't agree with. I live in Africa. I don't need to be brought to faith any more than you need an early morning visit from the Jehova Witnesses while packing for the DZ. I like Jews. And Buddhists. And Muslims. They don't try and sell you their religeon with a veiled threat of eternal damnation. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #50 October 10, 2003 Quote and bringing those people to faith This is one of my main gripes with organised religion... it recrutes... Would a catholic find it offensive if a jew told them they were following a heathan way and as such would be condemned to eternal damnation? Why is it any less offensive if its an athiest being spoken to be a catholic? (read any of the religions into the above statemt - it is not intended to single any one religion out from the rest.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
