Aerodyne Pilot Size

[bqmassey 0]

I was told by a rigger that an Aerodyne Pilot is equivalent to the next size higher in other canopies. I'm trying to determine if that's true, and if it's safe to consider a Pilot to be a size higher when calculating wing loadings and referencing wing loading recommendations.

Comparing the manufacturers' own wing loading charts, the Pilot seems to allow higher weights for similar canopy size and experience level. For example:

Pilot 188 @ Intermediate = 207lbs
Pilot 210 @ Intermediate = 231lbs

Sabre2 210 @ Intermediate = 210lbs

So, the manufacturers' opinions about their canopies seem to agree with what the rigger told me. I understand that the manufacturers will judge their canopies different, but it looks like as far as experience level goes, a Pilot 188 may be a closer match to a Sabre2 210 than a Pilot 210 is.

I did some jumps on a Pilot. A few weeks later I jumped a Sabre 2 of the same size. They were both fun when flying around in the holding area. The Sabre 2 definitely had a more responsive flare, and I liked the landing better. On the other hand, I liked the Pilot's openings better. I'm wondering if going to next the lower Pilot would give me the best of both worlds.

In other words, I'm happy with my wing loading flying the Sabre 2, and wouldn't downsize on it. But I'm trying to determine if flying a Pilot in the next sized lower would be equivalent, as far as safety and skill level is concerned.

[ChrisL 2]

I would not agree that if you fly a Sabre2 of a given size, that you can safely substitute a Pilot one size smaller.

I've owned a Sabre2 210 and a Pilot 210 and found them similar in flight characteristics. Sabre2 was a touch snappier.

Likewise I owned a Sabre2 190 and a Pilot 188 and had a similar experience.

I then demo'd a Sabre2 170 last fall, but I bought a Pilot 168 this spring
and I'm very happy with my choice.

The Pilot opens better and on heading far more often than the Sabre2 in my experience at all the sizes I've had, and lands just as softly once you are used to the differences in the flare.

The Sabre2's I've owned opened off heading at least half the time and slammed the crap outta me on a couple occasions.

I'm loading my Pilot at about 1.4 and I'm quite happy with the way it performs.

__

My mighty steed

[riggerrob 561]

There are a variety of methods for measuring square canopies, but the two most opopular methods were written by Para-Flite and Performance Designs.
Both methods measure chord in - a straight line - from the trailing edge to the top leading edge.
IOW chord is the longest (straight) dimension on a rib.

Most modern manufacturers use PD's method of measuring span across the bottom skin.
However, the older method - written by Para-Flite (and subsequently adopted by PISA, PIA, and a few other manufacturers) - is to measure span across the top skin, six inches back from the leading edge.

I was under the impression that Aerodyne (aka. 'the Pilot factory") uses PD's method.

Keep in mind that "advertised" areas are more often written by marketing managers, than engineers.

Riddle: Who can tell me the difference between a marketing manager and a ......?

[popsjumper 2]

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Riddle: Who can tell me the difference between a marketing manager and a ......?

Engineers don't make mistakes, they make changes.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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I was told by a rigger that an Aerodyne Pilot is equivalent to the next size higher in other canopies. I'm trying to determine if that's true, ...

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You're unlikely to get a definitive answer here...or anywhere else for that matter.

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...and if it's safe to consider a Pilot to be a size higher when calculating wing loadings and referencing wing loading recommendations.

Go by the individual manufacturer's charts. Although they are very conservative, they do provide sensible guidelines.

Knowing you and having a somewhat fair idea of how you fly, the Pilot 188 would be good for you to start. Openings are generally a characteristic of the canopy. Landing them is a skill you develop.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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[virgin-burner 1]

dont dodge the safire2's..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,436]

>I was told by a rigger that an Aerodyne Pilot is equivalent to the next
>size higher in other canopies. I'm trying to determine if that's true . . .

Definitely not in all cases. A Pilot 117 is not as forgiving as a Safire2 129.

>But I'm trying to determine if flying a Pilot in the next sized lower
>would be equivalent.

The literal answer is no, they're not. However, the best way to determine whether or not that's a good canopy for you is to try one. Aerodyne is pretty good with demos.

[dragon2 0]

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I was told by a rigger that an Aerodyne Pilot is equivalent to the next size higher in other canopies.

In performance, no, as the above posts point out.
But, just a guess, maybe he meant in packing volume? If you buy a ZPX Pilot, it'll pack smaller than a normal ZP canopy.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[millertime24 8]

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dont dodge the safire2's..

Don't listen to the Swiss fucker!!!

But seriously, I have a Pilot 111 loaded at 1.7:1, and even in asymmetrical deployment causing line twists it still behaves. You cant go wrong with this canopy.

Muff #5048

[pilot-one 0]

There is absolutely not a descernible size difference. In fact the Pilot has a bit more of a "sporty" feel to it than an equal sized Sabre 2. It does pack a bit more voluminous but not much. In ZPX the canopy would pack much smaller than the Sabre 2.
I've owned these canopies and jumped them so this is from the horse's mouth so to speak. Jumping a size smaller Pilot would be a mistake if you're not ready for a size smaller Sabre 2.

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

dont dodge the safire2's..

yadda-yadda-yadda Swiss rock!!!

yadda-yadda-yadda, u're gonna die, yadda-yadda-yadda

safire2! safire2!! safire2!!!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Joellercoaster 6]

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Jumping a size smaller Pilot would be a mistake if you're not ready for a size smaller Sabre 2.

This.

I semi-regularly jump a Sabre2 135 and a Pilot 132, and although they each have definite "personalities", things happen at about the same speed on both.

When I borrow a 120 though, it feels quite different.

(The Pilot does pack a little bigger, though this is neither here nor there.)

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[skow 6]

and how about if you compare Mamba to Xfire or Katana?

[Plover 0]

Once again the moderators here have chosen to delete a bunch of perfectly innocent messages. So now it's time for some payback once again. Tsk tsk. It's too bad they continue this program of self-induced punishment. It would be so easy if they just left those innocent messages alone, and public. But, when they fucka wit me, I fucka wit them. So here we go again.