Seal prototype

[JerryBaumchen 1,059]

Hi ski,

IMO if someone wants to 'mess' with a reserve, the seal will not stop them.

It's all about the ethics.

JerryBaumchen

[Unstable 8]

Did you try this idea for a Paper Seal yet?


[Damn! Did somebody beat me to this joke yet....]

=========Shaun ==========

[mjosparky 3]

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Did you try this idea for a Paper Seal yet?


[Damn! Did somebody beat me to this joke yet....]

How many people let you pack their reserve?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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Or something like in the photo attached. This could be done on most existing gear without adding a small loop like you show in your photo.

Jerry,

I looked through some of the crap I have collected and found this. It is similar to you idea.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

The PIA rigging committee asked if non lead seals were legal.

I have a written opinion from FAA headquarters that unless a manufacturer puts an alternate seal method in their manual that a lead seal with the press must be used.
The letter has been posted on here before but I don't have time to look it up right now.

The PIA rigging committee has been working on an other than lead seal for a year. Looking at both plastic for a press and 'paper' printable. Austrailia Parachute Federation supplies them to riggers there.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sundevil777 94]

So, that makes a switch to paper seals easier, doesn't it, just get mfgs to allow it as an alternative, publish it on their websites as an addendum to their manual or some such thing. Doesn't that seem easier, at least without govt involvement?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JerryBaumchen 1,059]

Hi sundevil,

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just get mfgs to allow it as an alternative, publish it on their websites as an addendum to their manual or some such thing.

Some of 'us' are looking into doing just this. We are in need of someone to take charge & run with this idea.

I think what will be needed to be done is for someone ( PIA, are you listening? ) to come up with some wording for a manual(s) that all mfr's can use. That makes it much more difficult for the FAA to offer their, "Just say no." excuse.

Would you be interested in heading up a small Ad Hoc committee; and I am serious?

JerryBaumchen

[mark 102]

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So, that makes a switch to paper seals easier, doesn't it, just get mfgs to allow it as an alternative, publish it on their websites as an addendum to their manual or some such thing. Doesn't that seem easier, at least without govt involvement?

Better yet, manufacturers might add this phrase: "The owner should remove the seal before use. Leaving the seal in place may result in pull forces exceeding 22 pounds and void the TSO."

The seal is not a talisman that protects against tampering. Protection from tampering is solely an owner/operator responsibility. While there is a requirement for riggers to seal rigs, there is no requirement for a rig to stay sealed once it is in the owner's possession.

The containers are TSO'd without seals. We should be jumping them in the configuration they have been tested in.

Mark

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

Quote

So, that makes a switch to paper seals easier, doesn't it, just get mfgs to allow it as an alternative, publish it on their websites as an addendum to their manual or some such thing. Doesn't that seem easier, at least without govt involvement?

Better yet, manufacturers might add this phrase: "The owner should remove the seal before use. Leaving the seal in place may result in pull forces exceeding 22 pounds and void the TSO."

The seal is not a talisman that protects against tampering. Protection from tampering is solely an owner/operator responsibility. While there is a requirement for riggers to seal rigs, there is no requirement for a rig to stay sealed once it is in the owner's possession.

The containers are TSO'd without seals. We should be jumping them in the configuration they have been tested in.

Mark

That sounds appealing, but I think not realistic.

An extension of that logic is that our reserves are required to be packed by an FAA certified rigger every 180 days, but that shouldn't be taken to mean that other people can't also pack it within that time period. I don't think that interpretation would be accepted, pretty sure the FAA would expect the wording of the existing reg to require the seal stay in place.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Hi Sparky,

Or something like in the photo attached. This could be done on most existing gear without adding a small loop like you show in your photo.

Yes, I know that eventually it does some 'damage' to the gear.

This shows both a lead seal ( on the left side ) & a paper seal ( on the right side ) so that both could be shown in a single photo.

Also, this method should alleviate the concern that Jan has about a paper seal jamming the housing.

Thoughts????

JerryBaumchen

PS) Please no comments about the dacron loop, it was just what was laying on the workbench.

My thoughts are that this set up would be extremely easy to forge and that you potentially add up to 12 # of pull force to the RC pull.

#1 extremely easy to forge
Any time you cannot verify the entire continuity of the seal thread is easy pickens for a forgery.
It would not take much effort at all to thread seal thread to look like it was attached to the lead seal or 'seal card'.
You could do a continuity check by pulling on either side of the seal thread, but that seems impractical and would also lead to broken seals.

#2 excessive additional pull forces
The way you have it set up, both sides of the seal thread would need to be broken.
In a worst case scenario that would be about 12# more added to the pull force required to extract the RC.
If it was rigged, as the BPA suggestion, so that the pin could slip through the seal without breaking it, then that would not be a pull force concern, but would put it back into a forgery type concern.

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