bodypilot1 0 #26 February 1, 2008 QuoteIf you 'accidentally' fall through clouds, will your full face fog and remain fogged? Passing though a cloud will only cause moisture which will run off like the rain as it hits your windshield going 116mph. The fogged lens on the inside of your face shield is caused by the moisture in your breath, as well as your body heat, as it condenses when the ouside air is cold.www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #27 February 1, 2008 Quote However, when in Rome.... ...you can wear any helmet you like, even as a student. The only requirement in Italy is that students must wear a helmet, regardless of whether full face or not. Ciao. Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflysteve 0 #28 February 1, 2008 Like JSAXTON says "suck it up" The rules have been there a longtime before you came into the sport and will be there a long time after. Just think you used to need 200 jumps(and may still have) to wear a FRAP HAT! and yet tandem passengers get to wear them on jump"1",now thats just not fair on all us jumpers who carried on after doing tandems having to do another 199 jumps before we could carry that badge on our head. Ps If you really need to wear a full face before you meet the skydiving requirements I know of one person who got a dispensation on the basis she couldnt breathe in freefall without one,no shit. Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #29 February 1, 2008 Quote Quote But in the cold, the visors are more likely to fog, then freeze. Then with gloves they can be harder to open (if they open). And they reduce peripheral vision and the ability to see emergency handles. Dave I have a full face and think that this is a good point to bring up. I keep my visor open until I am ready to ge out the door for this same reason. I had an off cross country landing due to my visor fogging - scared me to death and since it was a newer helmet I had a problem getting it to flip up until I was way passed where I was suppose to land. Ended up being ok but is definitely something for newer jumpers to think about when picking out a helmet. I use an OXYGN full face helmet and have not had any fogging problems with it, summer or winter, at altitudes up to 21,000ft and temperatures well below zero F. You DO need to make sure you're exhaling through the mouth vents. I have seen goggles frozen to people's faces on jumps where I have been just fine with my full-face.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #30 February 1, 2008 It should be obvious from reading these posts that jumping a full-face helmet is not without additional complications. It's very common for newer jumpers to feel fully qualified to do anything and to see any restriction as unfair. If you have not yet mastered the tasks required for advancing in the license structure, then you seem to have plenty to occupy you without fighting for the rights of the oppressed helmet-wearers. Being able to operate with a full-face simply requires a higher level of general competence and awareness, which is difficult to quantify in a specific requirement. So, the powers-that-be are probably wanting newer jumpers to be a bit more experienced in general before adding to their overall workload on a jump. You wouldn't believe the number of boned-up mistakes a newby can make trying to look like the "cool kids". Just mellow out and concentrate on the things that will keep you out of a hospital or morgue until you are actually competent to make these decisions. Kevin Keenan_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RandomLemming 0 #31 February 1, 2008 I'm not arguing that it adds a level of complication or additional risk. What I am hoping to argue is the disparity between the regulations of various regions, as well as the current system used to measure readiness. My argument is that if 50 jumps and the ability to pack, land within a 15ft radius, read a map and do a flightline check make you safe enough, then why doesn't 100 jumps and an FS1 (formation skydiving certification)? What is the difference in risk profile between a jumper at 50 jumps with their B license, and a jumper with 100 jumps and an FS1 with regards to wearing a full face helmet? One of these qualifications demonstrates less experience but familiarity with equipment on the ground under controlled conditions. The other demonstrates more experience and the ability to deal with dynamic situations in the sky, as well as awareness and shared airspace. Yes, I've only got 100 jumps, but that doesn't mean that my arguments are not logical or without merit. All I will be asking is for a logical refutation of my points, and I'm quite prepared to accept the outcome. As it stands though, I'm mostly hearing "Because we've been doing this for longer and know better." I'm all for accepting wisdom and learning from other people's mistakes, but I want more than "Trust us, we know best" without any empirical evidence to back up the arguments. The last bunch of people that told me "Trust us, we know what's best for you" are the same bunch that arrest people under the terrorism act for walking on the cycle path. Finally, this has nothing to do with wanting to look like the cool kids. This has _everything_ to do with a FF helmet being more suitable than some of the alternatives under certain very rare circumstances for some people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #32 February 2, 2008 in reply to " I'm keen to get a better understanding of the requirements in other countries that have to be met before you can jump a full face. " ................................................................. As far as I know there are no specific regs re restricting use of full face helmets in Oz. Everyone seems to want one for some reason.perhaps to reduce the feeling of wind in the hair?? My feeling is that anything that reduces the peripheral vision of novices is a real bad idea. Sure is a good idea to wear a hard hat with so many bumpy people out there but not one that makes you part blind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #33 February 2, 2008 Everyone seems to want one for some reason.perhaps to reduce the feeling of wind in the hair?? HAHAHA, I jumped without a hat for a couple years, but I kept hitting my head on the door getting into the plane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #34 February 2, 2008 QuoteMy feeling is that anything that reduces the peripheral vision of novices is a real bad idea I cannot see the sides or the top of my full face. A pair of 'stylish' foam lined goggles would restrict my peripheral vision far more.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #35 February 2, 2008 Quote Quote My feeling is that anything that reduces the peripheral vision of novices is a real bad idea I cannot see the sides or the top of my full face. A pair of 'stylish' foam lined goggles would restrict my peripheral vision far more. Ditto. I do indeed have better vision in my full face than in my "stylish" goggles.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #36 February 2, 2008 >I use an OXYGN full face helmet and have not had any fogging problems with it . . . Any helmet can have problems. We had every helmet visor on a large load freeze over in Eloy in 2002, including many OXYGN helmets. I was fortunate in that my FP-1 did _not_ seal well; there was a gap at the top of the visor I could still see through. There are several reasons that full face helmets can present problems for newer jumpers: 1) Restriction of peripheral vision and downward vision (which is where your handles are.) 2) Restriction of hearing compared to a Pro-Tec. 3) Possibility of fogging. All full-face helmets can fog; a former student of mine broke his femur because his helmet fogged at 100 feet and he did not feel comfortable taking it off (it was a non-openable visor.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #37 February 2, 2008 Quote>I use an OXYGN full face helmet and have not had any fogging problems with it . . . Any helmet can have problems. We had every helmet visor on a large load freeze over in Eloy in 2002, including many OXYGN helmets. I was fortunate in that my FP-1 did _not_ seal well; there was a gap at the top of the visor I could still see through. If I recall correctly, that was at 24,500ft msl. Not exactly conditions likely to be encountered by someone with 50 jumps. It's not as if goggles are a perfect solution. I've seen someone's goggles frozen to their face when their tears (eyes watering from the cold) froze on a cold day, and they couldn't see or get the goggles off.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sraja 0 #38 February 3, 2008 Get the Bonehead Havok http://www.boneheadcomposites.com/havok.htm Advantages 1. You can flip the entire face open - so I can wear the full face in the loading area and just flip the face shut before exiting. Also I can flip it open under canopy and it feels the same as an open face helmet 2. On a rainy day I can flip the face open and it acts as a sort of a wind shield (under canopy of course) 3. It used to fog up at first but after applying an anti-fog solution it very rarely fogs up now 4. 2 dytter pockets with secure straps 5. Detachable interior padding in case the interior gets soggy and dirty with age 6. Most important for me - allows me to wear my prescription glasses under the full face helmet. I dont think any other full face is this roomy and secure Disadvantages 1. Does restrict a bit of peripheral vision when the face is closed (as compared to an open face) 2. Big and bulky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #39 February 3, 2008 Quote Get the Bonehead Havok http://www.boneheadcomposites.com/havok.htm Disadvantages 1. Does restrict a bit of peripheral vision when the face is closed (as compared to an open face) 2. Big and bulky 3. Makes you look like a giant insect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #40 February 3, 2008 >If I recall correctly, that was at 24,500ft msl. Actually closer to 26,000 (that was the early morning "extra altitude" jump; pilots thought they were doing us a favor.) Exit temp was -34F. That's one extreme; another might be a jump on an unsettled day in Illinois where temperatures aloft are 30F and 80F 95% humidity at ground level. The interesting thing I learned from the high altitude jump was that goggles are significantly more resistant to fogging under those conditions. A secondary thing I learned was that it's a lot easier to take off goggles than helmets if it does become a problem in the air. (Although a good 25% of the dive did either get their visors open or their helmets off during the dive.) > I've seen someone's goggles frozen to their face when their tears (eyes >watering from the cold) froze on a cold day, and they couldn't see or get >the goggles off. Definitely. Not ideal, just a bit better than a full face (in my experience.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
